Directly compare Leafs to 29 other teams in C,D, & G

[Divine]

Nylander < Crosby
Rielly > Letang
Bernier > Fleury

Do we win?!

 

[Stephen]

I'm not talking about what lines they play on, Kadri is a #1 C. Advanced stats have made this glaringly obvious.

http://thehockeywriters.com/leafs-have-finally-acquired-their-number-one-centre/

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

If it makes you happy.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

If it makes you happy.

To have a #1 C of the caliber of Kadri? Hell yeah I'm happy. Much better than that scrub Bozak.

 

[Pyrophorus]

I'm not talking about what lines they play on, Kadri is a #1 C. Advanced stats have made this glaringly obvious.

http://thehockeywriters.com/leafs-have-finally-acquired-their-number-one-centre/

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/...al&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

I agree.
There was a thread on the main board, to rank your players by position.
Naz is playing a 200 ft game, and playing the best hockey of his career.
I would put him above Bozak-who I don't hate.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

#1C - bottom 10, maybe bottom 5
#1D - 15th-20th
#1G - top 10-12

It's hard to say, as there's variability year to year, especially for goaltenders. But that's roughly where Id put them.

Can we conclude that without a top percentile defender & #1C, we aren't close to a top team or contender, and will be going nowhere?

 

[JayDog17]

It always amazes me how much our fan base is able to fool themselves into over or under rating our players.

Bernier is a good goalie. Not a great goalie. Not anywhere near an elite goalie. He is a good goalie, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Phaneuf is a good defenceman. Not a terrible defenceman. Not anywhere near the worst defenceman in the league. He is a good defenceman, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Bozak/Kadri are good centers. Not terrible/great centers. Not anywhere near the worst/elite centers in the league. They are good centers, and there is nothing wrong with that.

We need to build/play/plan the future with depth and coaching, not worry about comparing our 1C/1D/1G with other teams in the league. Elite players only come along once in a while. You are going to have to draft well, and hope.

 

[GoonieFace]

I'd take Galchenyuk over Bozak to be honest...Bernier to me is actually kind of a draw with Price. It's probaby the homer in me though.

Rinne and Lundqvist are 2 guys I can safely say are above Bernier, but I could argue guys like Price and not feel too bad about it.

I hope you are joking.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I hope you are joking.

Both teams rely heavily on their goaltenders.

Bernier's individual stats are actually around Carey's stats, the wins are not, but that is a reflection of the team. Our team has been awful since Bernier got here and he's stolen so many games.

 

[Bluejaysfan*]

It always amazes me how much our fan base is able to fool themselves into over or under rating our players.

Bernier is a good goalie. Not a great goalie. Not anywhere near an elite goalie. He is a good goalie, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Phaneuf is a good defenceman. Not a terrible defenceman. Not anywhere near the worst defenceman in the league. He is a good defenceman, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Bozak/Kadri are good centers. Not terrible/great centers. Not anywhere near the worst/elite centers in the league. They are good centers, and there is nothing wrong with that.

We need to build/play/plan the future with depth and coaching, not worry about comparing our 1C/1D/1G with other teams in the league. Elite players only come along once in a while. You are going to have to draft well, and hope.

Except pretty much all statistical evidence that isn't basic verifies what you said as a lie. Kadri is an elite center, it's not even debatable.

 

[Eb]

Nylander < Crosby
Rielly > Letang
Bernier > Fleury

Do we win?!

I hope you are joking…

In what world is Rielly better than Letang?

In what world is Bernier better than Fleury? Let Bernier play a playoff game at least before claiming this.

 

[HarrisonFord]

Defense/goaltending is the most important area, and that's where our weaknesses are.

10 of the teams in the top 10 for GA/G are in the playoffs right now
0 of the teams in the bottom 10 for GA/G are in the playoffs right now

8 of the teams in the top 10 for GF/G are in the playoffs (the only 2 not in there are Toronto and Dallas - both in bottom 10 of GA/G)
2 of the teams in the bottom 10 for GF/G are in the playoffs (non-coincidentally both are top 10 in GA/G)

Last year:

9 of the teams in the top 10 GA/G made the playoffs (NJ 4th lowest GF/G missed)
0 of the teams in the bottom 10 GA/G made the playoffs

9 of the teams in the top 10 GF/G made the playoffs (and Dallas made it in by 2pts)
3 of the teams in the bottom 10 GF/G made the playoffs

WE NEED TO GET BETTER DEFENSE

 

[MapleLeaf4ever]

Rather than comparing our #1C, #1D, G to other teams, I went ahead and judged
the leafs C & D cores & goaltending tandoms against others. This is a team sport
after all. Judge them as a group or not at all. My terms for sorting the teams
into their respective groups was fairly rudimentry, however there is corelation
with where each team ranks and if they have playoff spot (1 top D or 1 top C
usually makes the playoffs with few exeptions. 1 of each seems to be garunteed).
Mid and Weak levels are interchangable. I put more value into having a single
top talent and poor supporting vs no top talent but strong support. Easy to add
support. Hard to get talent.

Elite C core - 2 or more established top talent C
LAK(P3), BOS(EWC1), PIT(M2), ANA(P1), STL(C3), DAL(WWC4), COL(WWC5), SNJ(P2)
High End - C Core - 1 established top talent C and strong supporting C
CHI(C2),TBL(A1), WSH(M3), VAN(WWC2), NYI(M1), CBJ(EWC7)*, CAR(EWC9)
Mid - 1 established top talent C and weak supporting C
DET(A3), MIN(WWC6), EDM(WWC8),PHI(EWC6)
Weak - No Established top talent C but strong collection
NSH(C1), OTT(EWC5), TOR(EWC4), CGY(WWC3), MTL(A2), FLO(EWC3), WPG(WWC1), NYR(EWC1)
Poor - No Established top talent C and weak collection
ARZ(WWC7), BUF(EWC10), NJD(EWC8)

Elite D core - 2 or more Top pair D men
CHI(C2), SNJ(P2), STL(C3), VAN(WWC2), ARZ(WWC7), NSH(C1), CGY(WWC3), NYR(EWC1)
High End - One Top Pair D man and strong Support D
BOS(EWC1), LAK(P3), PIT(M2), TBL(A1), ANA(P1), WSH(M3), NYI(M1), MTL(A1), WPG(WWC1)
Mid-Weak - One Top Pair D man and weak supporting D
COL(WWC5), TOR(EWC4), MIN(WWC6), OTT(EWC5), FLO(EWC3)
Weak-Mid - No Top Pair D but strong collection
CBJ(EWC7)*, DET(A3)
Poor - No Top Pair D but Weak Collection
DAL(WWC4), PHI(EWC6), CAR(EWC9), BUF(EWC10), EDM(WWC8), NJD(EWC8)

Goaltending I use Team Save Percentage to rank. Need a good backup
as well as good starting. acording to ESPN, we rank tied at 17 w VAN
and ANA, overall I'd say we have better goaltending then both those teams.
http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/team/_/stat/scoring/sort/savePct

Some notacables I take away:
-Weather you call Stall a top line C or not still, is debatable. I, out of respect for his
past acomplishments still call him one. I also believe J.Stall is a solid #2-3 guy, and Lindholm
is a nice looking young C, hence why I rank CAR in High End C core.
-DET is average in both C and D core. I believe this is a credit to their top end Forwards
and Mike Babcocks coaching ability, and Ken Hollands ability to supply him with a steady stream
of good players despite the team not drafting high enough to nab a potential star talent (Nyquist
is a steal however)
-MTL and NSH, I would not say any of there C's are top talents. That said they have a collection
of very good forwards and strong defensive tandems and play a very well coach game (did I just say
Lavioette is a good coach?!)
-LAK would have an elite D core if Voynov was not a filthy wife beater.
-Other than DAL, COL, CAR for C, and ARZ (CGY?) defensively. Teams ranked in Elite and High tier are all in
Playoff spots. Only stated DET does not rank in Elite for either, and MTL and NSH are only teams
in playoff spots while not having an elite talent at both pos.
-CBJ is a likely playoff team if they had not missed as many man games as they had, so I mark them
with an asterix.

Finally for fun I rank teams based on Wingers
Elite - 2 Elite Wingers
TOR(EWC4), LAK(P3), MIN(WWC6), NYR(EWC2)
High End - 1 Elite Winger and more than 1 top 6 winger(s)
ANA(P1),BUF(EWC10), CHI(C2), COL(WWC5), CBJ(EWC7)*, DET(A3), EDM(WWC8), MTL(A2), PHI(EWC6)
SNJ(P2)*, STL(C3), TBL(A1), VAN(WWC2)
Mid - 3 top 6 wingers or 1 Elite Winger and 1 or less top 6 wingers
BOS(EWC1), CAR(EWC9), FLO(EWC3), OTT(EWC5), SNJ(P2)*, WSH(M3), WPG(WWC1), NSH(C1)
Weak - 2 top 6 wingers
CGY(WWC3), NJD(EWC8), NYI(M1), PIT(M2)
Poor - 1 or less top 6 winger
ARZ(WWC7)

*SNJ is dependant on weather or not Brent Burns plays the RW.

So from this ranking, one can gather that at least 3 top 6 wingers are needed to make the playoffs, and I
would say at least one of them should be an elite forward talent. However also note that many non-playoff
teams possess talent at this position. Is this to say wingers are not important? No, see Pittsburgh for why
lacking strong wingers is important. However this does show that C & D are far more important skater positions.

On a final note, the leafs are at or just below average at C,D,and G. However at W we all no we are absolutely loaded.
I would say if Gardiner turns his game around, We may not be so far off at D. However a true #1C is a huge need to make
us a playoff team. Phanuef is a top pair C, and Rielly may be another. Franson has also shown he is a very good D and a PP
specialist. Going forward, move cap room off the wing and lets bring in a true 1C.

 

[Snacks Kassian]

There's no argument for Bernier over Quick

Word up.