Speculation: Dion Phaneuf

[Todd1a]

Nah don't give Toronto the cap space, also they would need a D man anyways
Toronto with cap = more deadly

If you look what the leafs want to do is dump Dions contract for anything. Try to get mcdavid just tank for two years! Then hope stamkos says they look up and coming I will sign there. It's all a plan by shanny up there to set up for stamkos.

 

[Todd1a]

My goodness Phil Kessel makes more money then stamkos lol

 

[The Macho King]

My goodness Phil Kessel makes more money then stamkos lol

Kessel got that as a pending UFA - Stamkos' contract was off an ELC. Kessel and Phaneuf get FAR too much **** from around the league. They're both excellent players.

 

[DFC]

He has a horrible first pass, he cannot skate with the puck up ice, his shot is completely horrible especially that wrister of his, please enlighten me on his offensive skillset? Aside from making a simple pass to an offensively gifted team.

I really don't need to tell you this but Hedman getting points is largely due to him making a pivitol play, how many plays have you seen from Carle and said "wow that goal was all because of Carle".

Not saying Carle's an offensive dynamo. But if he was as bad as you say, I don't understand why a guy like Hedman, who's clearly better, doesn't have far superior even strength stats for the last two years. They play on the same offensively gifted team.

Carle is, like you said, a good #3.

 

[BoltSTH]

Not saying Carle's an offensive dynamo. But if he was as bad as you say, I don't understand why a guy like Hedman, who's clearly better, doesn't have far superior even strength stats for the last two years. They play on the same offensively gifted team.

Carle is, like you said, a good #3.

Hedman had to keep looking over his shoulder to see how far back Salo was, and many times had to race back trying to stop the winger who just flew passed Sami.

 

[The Macho King]

Not saying Carle's an offensive dynamo. But if he was as bad as you say, I don't understand why a guy like Hedman, who's clearly better, doesn't have far superior even strength stats for the last two years. They play on the same offensively gifted team.

Carle is, like you said, a good #3.

I'd argue Hedman's stats are pretty far superior. ES last season:

Hedman: 10g, 31a = 41 points
Carle: 1g, 23a = 24 points

That's a big difference, and it's not factoring primary points, which I think would tip the scales even more in Hedman's favor. Still, I'm not with Sky on thinking Carle is brutal or anything like that - he's a good player, but was playing a bit over his head last season. I'm hoping that won't be an issue this season.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Carle had his best season with us last year. I like him. No he's not great but we can do much worse. I think with the guys we added he will be better. But still better is not great but we don't need great if our team scores goals and our goaltending can keep the puck out of our own net.

 

[Todd1a]

Not saying Carle's an offensive dynamo. But if he was as bad as you say, I don't understand why a guy like Hedman, who's clearly better, doesn't have far superior even strength stats for the last two years. They play on the same offensively gifted team.

Carle is, like you said, a good #3.

I'm not saying carle stinks but dion is better then him no doubt. Now Dions contract has many years left 7 compared to Matt carle who only has 4 years left. Dion will be very good for us for the next 3 or 4 years but after that will age start to catch him ? We know we have to pay stamkos 12 to 14. Next year we got bishop to pay 5 or 6 I'd guess. So I don't know if we can fit dion under are salary cap ? Then in three years Hedman hits ufa ? So he goes from 4 to 7 or 8 at least. Can the wizard steve yzerman pull this all off I have no doubt if he wants to. Maybe he deals carle there or somewhere? Maybe the leafs retain 500 k per year on dion we don't know. Maybe this is all just a rumor and not real no idea. But contract aside dion is a upgrade on Matt carle.

 

[DFC]

I'd argue Hedman's stats are pretty far superior. ES last season:

Hedman: 10g, 31a = 41 points
Carle: 1g, 23a = 24 points

That's a big difference, and it's not factoring primary points, which I think would tip the scales even more in Hedman's favor. Still, I'm not with Sky on thinking Carle is brutal or anything like that - he's a good player, but was playing a bit over his head last season. I'm hoping that won't be an issue this season.

I think you're adding Hedman's short-handed points with his even strength points. NHL.com has Hedman at 35 ES points compared to Carle's 24. Last year, it was 19 for Hedman and 17 for Carle.

That's a whopping 13 point difference over two seasons. (Or 1.5)

Hedman's one of the more gifted offensive Dmen in the league. Carle is clearly not that. But (like you said) he's not atrocious either. And the numbers do support that.

 

[DFC]

I'm not saying carle stinks but dion is better then him no doubt. Now Dions contract has many years left 7 compared to Matt carle who only has 4 years left. Dion will be very good for us for the next 3 or 4 years but after that will age start to catch him ? We know we have to pay stamkos 12 to 14. Next year we got bishop to pay 5 or 6 I'd guess. So I don't know if we can fit dion under are salary cap ? Then in three years Hedman hits ufa ? So he goes from 4 to 7 or 8 at least. Can the wizard steve yzerman pull this all off I have no doubt if he wants to. Maybe he deals carle there or somewhere? Maybe the leafs retain 500 k per year on dion we don't know. Maybe this is all just a rumor and not real no idea. But contract aside dion is a upgrade on Matt carle.

No doubt Dion is an upgrade over Carle, but the contract would handcuff the team for the better part of a decade. Stamkos, Hedman, and Bishop aren't going to be the only guys asking for big money in the next 2-5 years.

 

[Todd1a]

No doubt Dion is an upgrade over Carle, but the contract would handcuff the team for the better part of a decade. Stamkos, Hedman, and Bishop aren't going to be the only guys asking for big money in the next 2-5 years.

Well you can't keep them all fact is some guys are going to leave for ufa. That's why you draft and keep replacing the few guys that bolt. To be honest in three years I can't see Connolly panik Killorn here. Stamkos and Hedman are main focus to keep around first. My core guys I'd keep would be stamkos Hedman bishop palat drouin kucherov vasi Johnson and vladdy. That's my core every thing else is a moving part if a trade improves us. Also think Callahan and flipper are core. So that's 10 players I view as are core guys we keep long term. Now steve Yzerman's core may just be stamkos and Hedman ? Maybe drouin vasi not sure who Stevie thinks his long term core is?

 

[DFC]

Well you can't keep them all fact is some guys are going to leave for ufa. That's why you draft and keep replacing the few guys that bolt. To be honest in three years I can't see Connolly panik Killorn here. Stamkos and Hedman are main focus to keep around first. My core guys I'd keep would be stamkos Hedman bishop palat drouin kucherov vasi Johnson and vladdy. That's my core every thing else is a moving part if a trade improves us. Also think Callahan and flipper are core. So that's 10 players I view as are core guys we keep long term. Now steve Yzerman's core may just be stamkos and Hedman ? Maybe drouin vasi not sure who Stevie thinks his long term core is?

Doesn't change Phaneuf's contract. Vinny was core. But his contract was horrific. Phaneuf's isn't that bad, but it's too much for a second pairing guy just yet, and he likely wouldn't be a second pairing guy anymore in its latter years. It makes him a really bad fit with us, IMO, and could lead to us losing a guy like Palat or Johnson down the road. He's not worth that risk.

 

[Rschmitz]

Yeah Carle sucks! I'd much rather have Matt Walker, Kurtis Foster, and Lukas Krajicek!

Some of you are ridiculous, he pumps out a lot of offense and plays a solid positional game. He's a legitimate #3 guy, and a huge reason why Hedman has been able to develop properly.

Having said that, I'd much rather have Phaneuf, just not on that contract. We need a shutdown physical presence in our top 4.

 

[Todd1a]

Doesn't change Phaneuf's contract. Vinny was core. But his contract was horrific. Phaneuf's isn't that bad, but it's too much for a second pairing guy just yet, and he likely wouldn't be a second pairing guy anymore in its latter years. It makes him a really bad fit with us, IMO, and could lead to us losing a guy like Palat or Johnson down the road. He's not worth that risk.

Ya but I think the salary cap really goes up when we hit expansion in 2 or 3 years. These tv deals keep going up! I'd bet the cap shoots up to 75 million next year and 80 when stamkos gets to ufa. All in all I'd say it's 50/50 we get dion idk ? Numbers got to work right for yzerman.

 

[DFC]

Ya but I think the salary cap really goes up when we hit expansion in 2 or 3 years. These tv deals keep going up! I'd bet the cap shoots up to 75 million next year and 80 when stamkos gets to ufa. All in all I'd say it's 50/50 we get dion idk ? Numbers got to work right for yzerman.

50/50? You're probably buying way too much into what's pretty obviously nonsense. I think it's somewhere under 1%. If it was anywhere close to 50/50 a reputable source would have picked it up. We're talking about Toronto here, where everything leaks.

The cap is going to go up, but Dion is going to regress at the same time. We're still a long way from $7m being 3rd pairing money, but that's what Dion could realistically be by the time he's 34-35.

If we really wanted an upgrade over Carle, there are better options.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Agree. I see the chances of us trading for Phaneuf as very low. Same for Evander Kane and Marleau.

 

[Todd1a]

50/50? You're probably buying way too much into what's pretty obviously nonsense. I think it's somewhere under 1%. If it was anywhere close to 50/50 a reputable source would have picked it up. We're talking about Toronto here, where everything leaks.

The cap is going to go up, but Dion is going to regress at the same time. We're still a long way from $7m being 3rd pairing money, but that's what Dion could realistically be by the time he's 34-35.

If we really wanted an upgrade over Carle, there are better options.

Idk know if steve has a chance to upgrade the team he has shown he will do it. Are we going to get dion Kane marleau idk but you can bet steve might try. If the deal makes sense steve will pull the trigger.

 

[DFC]

Idk know if steve has a chance to upgrade the team he has shown he will do it. Are we going to get dion Kane marleau idk but you can bet steve might try. If the deal makes sense steve will pull the trigger.

That's the thing. There's no deal here that makes sense.

 

[Todd1a]

That's the thing. There's no deal here that makes sense.

But facts are we don't know ? Maybe carle and Killorn get moved maybe they retain some dion money. I still feel like yzerman is still going to make moves one or two I'd guess for who I don't know.

 

[MattM92]

I think our roster is pretty set. Only moves I see now are minor moves for the AHL. Yzerman's MO isn't blockbuster trades. His biggest in his tenure (besides the forced St. Louis trade) was Conacher for Bishop.

 

[Todd1a]

I think our roster is pretty set. Only moves I see now are minor moves for the AHL. Yzerman's MO isn't blockbuster trades. His biggest in his tenure (besides the forced St. Louis trade) was Conacher for Bishop.

Yes true but we are exiting rebuild mode now. With yzerman you can never say anything is set and stone. When it comes to him he is not afraid to make changes.

 

[MattM92]

Yes true but we are exiting rebuild mode now. With yzerman you can never say anything is set and stone. When it comes to him he is not afraid to make changes.

As long as it makes the team better in the short and long term. 8 years of paying Dion Phaneuf 7 mil a year is not good in the long term. He is a slight upgrade on Carle. Adding in the fact that we would need to add to make the deal work makes it even worse for us. We don't have many players like Killorn on our roster, he isn't the kind of player you just throw away in a trade like this.

 

[Todd1a]

As long as it makes the team better in the short and long term. 8 years of paying Dion Phaneuf 7 mil a year is not good in the long term. He is a slight upgrade on Carle. Adding in the fact that we would need to add to make the deal work makes it even worse for us. We don't have many players like Killorn on our roster, he isn't the kind of player you just throw away in a trade like this.

We got tons of prospects that can take over killorns role easy in the coming years. Erne vladdy kucherov Connolly. I think Killorn is going to get beat out in the next few years. Teddy Purcell got pushed out by all the kids that came in. Kunyk is another one that could bump Killorn.

 

[Felonious Python]

We got tons of prospects that can take over killorns role easy in the coming years. Erne vladdy kucherov Connolly. I think Killorn is going to get beat out in the next few years. Teddy Purcell got pushed out by all the kids that came in. Kunyk is another one that could bump Killorn.

Purcell pushed himself out.

 

[chasespace]

We got tons of prospects that can take over killorns role easy in the coming years. Erne vladdy kucherov Connolly. I think Killorn is going to get beat out in the next few years. Teddy Purcell got pushed out by all the kids that came in. Kunyk is another one that could bump Killorn.

That's your key phrase. It's highly possible he gets pushed out, the reality is no one has pushed him out of his spot yet so there's no point in dealing him for something that may happen(and if it doesn't happen it makes us worse).