Durkin67
Guest
Thornton didn't "step down" from the C, the team took it away.
Yes clearly. we all know that. And I can't see Phaneuf accepting returning without the C.
Thornton didn't "step down" from the C, the team took it away.
I think we're trading Kessel before Phaneuf. Simply put, Babcock endorsing Kadri and Nylander tells me that Kessel is out. Those two along with Marner ( potentially) will be our skilled guys. Seeing that Kessel will probably not suddenly transform into Hossa, he's going to be moved.The mandate is to load up on youth. I have always backed Dion, but his tenure as captain can't continue, and I don't see him stepping down like Joe Thornton did.
You don't try and replace him in a trade. You simply reload with the picks and prospects you can get for him, if there lis a deal that works.
Hes not a 1D, but he's a very capable 2 or 3, and if you're eating cap to stay above the floor, you can move him for some nice futures.
Half of me wants to see Babs turn him around. The other half wants to see the Leafs load up on raw materials and lay down a solid blueprint from ground zero.
The mandate is to load up on youth. I have always backed Dion, but his tenure as captain can't continue, and I don't see him stepping down like Joe Thornton did.
You don't try and replace him in a trade. You simply reload with the picks and prospects you can get for him, if there lis a deal that works.
Hes not a 1D, but he's a very capable 2 or 3, and if you're eating cap to stay above the floor, you can move him for some nice futures.
Half of me wants to see Babs turn him around. The other half wants to see the Leafs load up on raw materials and lay down a solid blueprint from ground zero.
I think we're trading Kessel before Phaneuf. Simply put, Babcock endorsing Kadri and Nylander tells me that Kessel is out. Those two along with Marner ( potentially) will be our skilled guys. Seeing that Kessel will probably not suddenly transform into Hossa, he's going to be moved.
Let him do his soul-searching exercise elsewhere.
I really do not understand why all of a sudden every one is talking about keeping Phaneuf, what has really changed
- Are we all of a sudden contending next year or within 3 years
- Have we given up on our long term plan of rebuilding
Yes Phaneuf is a good defense man and it's hard to find a top two defense man, he is not as bad, as was last year, I understand all these arguments and I respect your opinion
My point is Phanuef's valuing is declining and there is no guarantee that it's going to improve in either the short term or the long tem
This team is in a rebuild mode and going to take at least 3-4 years to even compete
Phaneuf is a decent defense man but down the road you are looking Robidas 2 or may be a bit better version of Robidas
The time our prospects are going to mature, he is probably going to be 35 , the chances are slower and less effective version of today's Phaneus
Logically we should trade him for picks and prospects and properly groom them for a long run and do not delay the process
The money saved on his contract should be properly invested in to these upcoming prospects
It all depends on what type of conversation we are having.
There are only 2 possibilities:
1. As a fan you either want Phaneuf to stay or be traded.
2. The organization either keeps Phaneuf or trades him.
Now in light of the Babcock hiring, it's natural to speculate who stays and who goes. We know changes are coming, we just don't know who.
Your points are valid but we aren't in charge.
From everything I've heard, I would have to speculate that maybe Phaneuf isn't being traded.
Kessel however is a different story. We haven't heard a single word about him or from him and we've been informed things will get worse before they get better.
Obviously we are not the decision maker, but I do not understand why people keep on changing there opinion, all of a sudden this thread is now so active and people who were advocating trading are all of a sudden against trading him
I really do not understand why all of a sudden every one is talking about keeping Phaneuf, what has really changed
- Are we all of a sudden contending next year or within 3 years
- Have we given up on our long term plan of rebuilding
Yes Phaneuf is a good defense man and it's hard to find a top two defense man, he is not as bad, as was last year, I understand all these arguments and I respect your opinion
My point is Phanuef's valuing is declining and there is no guarantee that it's going to improve in either the short term or the long tem
This team is in a rebuild mode and going to take at least 3-4 years to even compete
Phaneuf is a decent defense man but down the road you are looking Robidas 2 or may be a bit better version of Robidas
The time our prospects are going to mature, he is probably going to be 35 , the chances are slower and less effective version of today's Phaneus
Logically we should trade him for picks and prospects and properly groom them for a long run and do not delay the process
The money saved on his contract should be properly invested in to these upcoming prospects
I agree with you and I've stated all along that the Burke core of Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf should be dealt to rebuild. I still maintain that.
However, if I think that someone stays, I would say it's Phaneuf.
When Shanny got here he spoke about Phaneuf, how he liked him and wanted to help him evolve as a leader.
When Babcock got here he spoke about Phaneuf, how he liked him and he's a good kid.
Neither spoke about Kessel like that.
Its funny, Stephane Robidas played arguably the best hockey of his life between 30- and 35, but 34 Phaneuf is gonna be like todays "two broken legs in 18 months, 38 year old Robidas".
Biggest problem with moving Phaneuf before Kadri is going to be the stretch pass. Re-watching games, I have noticed that the first pairing aim was to enable Kessel to "cheat" on his assignments. The moment Horachek entered, the top line started falling apart because they were expected to support Phaneuf.If the deal makes sense, sure, but who is going to pay a premium for Kessel, who also needs his 4 million paid on July 1st?
If they can make that 4 million disappear, maybe a wealthy team without a ton of soon to expire ELC's goes for it. The only options that I see are NJD, ARZ, COL, CAR, and maybe NYI.
Babs will turn Kadri into a 2 way playmaking centre. Nylander is at least a year away, and won't be replacing Kessel.
Whoever they draft, they likely take their time with as well. The focus is on drafting and development...
Ultimately, they will replace Kessel with a Nylander. Kadri never replaces Kessel.
I think JvR gets moved at the draft. easy contract to swallow, young, size, hands, pedigree, etc.
Kessel has to go I agree 100%...it's just about when
Phaneuf is over 30 now and not getting younger and his graph is sliding, so he is going to be the same player in 4 -5 years, until now (just before Babcock's hiring) was advocating his trade and now all of a sudden you guys are against trading him
I don't how you guys keep on changing your opinion
My opinion has not changed, I've been open to trading him if the right deal is there but think hewould flourish on another team, but also think that he could have a valuable role to play in a deeper, more structured, younger Leafs d-core. Months ago I was suggesting that if we were to draft Provorov( when we looking at drafting 6-8 for a timestamp) then I'd strongly consider keeping DP (a quick check shows that I was saying it again, but this time about Hanifin on May 16th- before Babcock). Why is his graph sliding? There are d men contributing in significant roles between the ages of 33 and 38 in this league. Why is Dion going to magically turn into a pumpkin when the clock strikes 34? Might he? Yes. Is it anything near certaintly? Hell no.
Phaneuf is over 30 now and not getting younger and his graph is sliding, so he is going to be the same player in 4 -5 years, until now (just before Babcock's hiring) was advocating his trade and now all of a sudden you guys are against trading him
I don't how you guys keep on changing your opinion
His graph is not sliding? really
He is not the same player, he used to be and i don't see any improvement even in the future
He's just not Drew Doughty. Not many puck rushing defenceman can somehow simply their game without sacrificing their offence. It's the main reason why Hjalmarsson is so pivotal under Chicago's system. Keith is freed up to work more on the offensive side.No he's not, but that's because he's not playing the same game. When he came here he was asked to calm his game down, not be as flashy, and step into the role of an all situation number one d-man. He was actually praised for it too, and it seemed to be working.
I dont think Phaneuf has to go. Phaneuf is a hard working player and a solid leader. Is he captain material? Maybe not but hes not a bad guy to have around. If the deal isnt right then dont trade him. So many people have started to dislike Phaneuf just because its the cool thing to do.
Kessel and Bozak on the other hand have to be traded. By all reports these guys are lazy and bad for team culture.
PS: JVR being moved is probably part of the plan.
I'm hoping that the period from the draft to July 1 is to the Leafs' roster as Bloody Sunday was to the coaching staff/front office/scouting. With Phaneuf first on the chopping block.
How does that benefit Reilly, Kadri, Holland, Gardiner, Nylander, Percy and this years 4th overall?
Rushing kids into the NHL because you lack NHL talent or putting kids in situations they aren't ready for doesn't help them.
Why would we have to rush kids when there's always plenty of Winnick/Santo type players available every summer that we can pick up as ufa's until our prospects are ready ?
The only reason to keep PK/DP is if we believe we can build a winner with/around them in the very near future or if the the offers are so bad it doesn't make any sense to move them at this time . No one running the team now is tied to any of these player and they're not going to tie there future with the Leafs to a core that has failed miserably the last 3 full seasons .