Did the Pens miss drafting Pouliot over Forsberg?

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Glad we had Derrik "Power Play" Pouliot last game over FF. Our PP is unstoppable!

 

[roquay]

Glad we had Derrik "Power Play" Pouliot last game over FF. Our PP is unstoppable!

Sure FF would be more useful now but good wingers we can trade for (not saying we shouldnt draft them).

A guy with Pouliot's skill set we will most likely never get except through drafting. Offensively he is going to be up there with Letang and Karlsson. How good he becomes depends on what he does on D? When he hits his peak he's going to be getting close to what FF puts up points wise.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Sure FF would be more useful now but good wingers we can trade for (not saying we shouldnt draft them).

A guy with Pouliot's skill set we will most likely never get except through drafting. Offensively he is going to be up there with Letang and Karlsson. How good he becomes depends on what he does on D? When he hits his peak he's going to be getting close to what FF puts up points wise.

1 - How many years of Sid and Geno are we gonna waste waiting for DP to become the PPQB he may become? We already lost one last year and most likely will lose one this year.

2 - What are we trading for these wingers and is it worth it when we could have just drafted FF? Also you have to remember that Shero threw Morrow away because DP made him expendable.

3 - When (if) he hits his peak, will he be such an upgrade over Tang or Morrow to justify the years it took to get there?

 

[roquay]

1 - How many years of Sid and Geno are we gonna waste waiting for DP to become the PPQB he may become? We already lost one last year and most likely will lose one this year.

2 - What are we trading for these wingers and is it worth it when we could have just drafted FF? Also you have to remember that Shero threw Morrow away because DP made him expendable.

3 - When (if) he hits his peak, will he be such an upgrade over Tang or Morrow to justify the years it took to get there?

Everything changes if we get Forsberg its not just that simple. Does Forsberg progress to where he is today? All our injuries pretty much change because different people are on the ice so who knows what happens from there. We might not get Maatta? Do we still get Perron? Maybe not because we might be after a D man.
Next year our D would be :
Despres-Letang
Dumoulin-Harrington
Scuderi-Bortuzzo

We'd be overpaying for 1 probably 2 UFA D men which would hurt our cap to upgrade our offense.

Morrow being in a bad trade doesnt have anything to do who was drafted. We could have got a young forward prospect if Shero was smart. One pick doesnt waste years of Sid and Geno. Its a combination of a bad GM/Coach

So many questions and its fine to discuss it but don't think its just that clear cut.

 

[rightwinglock]

Looking at the Penguins way of developing forwards, Filip Forsberg is not the same player today if drafted by this organization. Would like to have him more than Pouliot, but don't mind the pick one bit.

 

[shizno*]

1 - How many years of Sid and Geno are we gonna waste waiting for DP to become the PPQB he may become? We already lost one last year and most likely will lose one this year.

2 - What are we trading for these wingers and is it worth it when we could have just drafted FF? Also you have to remember that Shero threw Morrow away because DP made him expendable.

3 - When (if) he hits his peak, will he be such an upgrade over Tang or Morrow to justify the years it took to get there?

What do you mean how many years are we going to lose? It's hard to win the cup, even with a stacked team. Remember the Boston series? There's so much parity in the league that if you think we are 2 wingers away from yearly cups, you're dreaming.

 

[The Greatest 101]

Why our PP still so bad?I thought Pouliot would fix it.

 

[jmelm]

Washington Drafted him and then traded him for Martin Erat. Pens still have Pouliot who will come in handy when or if they decide to move Letang at some point in the future.

They will trade Pouliot a million times over before they would move Letang, as they should. Pouliot is a fine prospect, but he will never be a legit #1/Norris contender.


The real crime is not trading one of our Dmen for an equally good or better young forward yet.

 

[penguins2946*]

They will trade Pouliot a million times over before they would move Letang, as they should. Pouliot is a fine prospect, but he will never be a legit #1/Norris contender.


The real crime is not trading one of our Dmen for an equally good or better young forward yet.

Just like Pouliot won't be ready for the NHL within 3 years? I've seen nothing to suggest that Pouliot can't reach that #1D level. There is nothing bad with having both Pouliot and Letang, it's not like there's a rule where we can have only 1 offensive D.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

What do you mean how many years are we going to lose? It's hard to win the cup, even with a stacked team. Remember the Boston series? There's so much parity in the league that if you think we are 2 wingers away from yearly cups, you're dreaming.

I'm talking about years we go w/o DP helping us in the POs, when FF would.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Just like Pouliot won't be ready for the NHL within 3 years? I've seen nothing to suggest that Pouliot can't reach that #1D level. There is nothing bad with having both Pouliot and Letang, it's not like there's a rule where we can have only 1 offensive D.

Well it's been 3 years and DP still isn't NHL ready. Unless you're talking about 3 years form now.

And I could say that "I've seen nothing to suggest that Pouliot won't be the next Marc-Andre Bergeron" with about as much accuracy as you have with assuming he'll be a #1 Dman.

 

[penguins2946*]

Well it's been 3 years and DP still isn't NHL ready. Unless you're talking about 3 years form now.

And I could say that "I've seen nothing to suggest that Pouliot won't be the next Marc-Andre Bergeron" with about as much accuracy as you have with assuming he'll be a #1 Dman.

No, he said that Pouliot wouldn't be ready 3 years from now. As in he wouldn't even be in the NHL until 17-18. And you could say that, but you'd look absolutely stupid saying it. There has been a hell of a lot more to suggest that Pouliot has a Letang-lite ceiling than he does a MA Bergeron-lite ceiling. You're just too salty about Pouliot being picked instead of Forsberg that it clouds your judgement.

 

[Night Shift]

Defenseman take longer to develop.

 

[madinsomniac]

Defenseman take longer to develop.

Absolutely. and that is why Forsberg was 100% the pick to make at the time... still remember how furious I was when we skipped him. I don't blame Shero as much as some do, but for this he was 100% at fault. he had a bias against wingers and particularly non NA wingers. he just undervalued them too much.

there are some talents that are ready asap and cannot be passed on regardless of where they play and how stacked you are at the position... for instance if we had a shot at McDavid, sure you take that even with Crosby and Malkin on the team. But for projected development guys, if there are two close in talent and one position is the absolute need, that's what you take, regardless of overall long term value if both reach maximum potential

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

No, he said that Pouliot wouldn't be ready 3 years from now. As in he wouldn't even be in the NHL until 17-18. And you could say that, but you'd look absolutely stupid saying it. There has been a hell of a lot more to suggest that Pouliot has a Letang-lite ceiling than he does a MA Bergeron-lite ceiling. You're just too salty about Pouliot being picked instead of Forsberg that it clouds your judgement.

And your love for DP doesn't cloud your judgment?

I don't think he'll be another MAB, but to say that you've seen nothing to suggest he won't be a #1 Dman is pretty offbase.

 

[penguins2946*]

And your love for DP doesn't cloud your judgment?

I don't think he'll be another MAB, but to say that you've seen nothing to suggest he won't be a #1 Dman is pretty offbase.

How so? What have you specifically seen to suggest that Pouliot doesn't have the ceiling that scouts gave him (which is a #1D)?

 

[Night Shift]

Absolutely. and that is why Forsberg was 100% the pick to make at the time... still remember how furious I was when we skipped him. I don't blame Shero as much as some do, but for this he was 100% at fault. he had a bias against wingers and particularly non NA wingers. he just undervalued them too much.

there are some talents that are ready asap and cannot be passed on regardless of where they play and how stacked you are at the position... for instance if we had a shot at McDavid, sure you take that even with Crosby and Malkin on the team. But for projected development guys, if there are two close in talent and one position is the absolute need, that's what you take, regardless of overall long term value if both reach maximum potential

Lets not forget that Shero was around his dad, part of the Flyers organization as a kid. Like his buddy Bob Clarke when it came to drafting, it's the same meat head one track mind mentality that can get you nowhere.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

How so? What have you specifically seen to suggest that Pouliot doesn't have the ceiling that scouts gave him (which is a #1D)?

He had #1 offensive potential, but his D needs a lot of work before that happens. His D is clearly not NHL caliber.

 

[penguins2946*]

He had #1 offensive potential, but his D needs a lot of work before that happens. His D is clearly not NHL caliber.

His D is so clearly not NHL caliber that he has the lowest GA/60 ratio of any of the Pens D along with having one of the lowest offensive zone start time.

 

[Shady Machine]

Odd that mine and Jiggy's posts were removed from earlier.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

His D is so clearly not NHL caliber that he has the lowest GA/60 ratio of any of the Pens D along with having one of the lowest offensive zone start time.

You need to watch the games and not look at stats that don't have nearly the sample size to mean anything.

 

[penguins2946*]

You need to watch the games and not look at stats that don't have nearly the sample size to mean anything.

He's either being covered by a really damn good defensive D or he's not trash defensively. Last time I checked, Scuderi and Bortuzzo aren't really damn good defensive D. It's not hard to connect the dots.

I'm not saying Pouliot is the best defensive D on the Pens based on GA/60, I'm saying his defense isn't "not remotely close to NHL caliber" like you said. That just seems like a purely opinionated statement that the stats don't support.

 

[DearDiary]

I think Pouliots development is actually being wasted not being in the NHL. The issues with his defense is he plays as if its junior forwards he's facing. Too much chasing forwards, biting on plays that aren't there, and not holding his position.

I think more time with Scuderi would help Pouliots game. He can teach him about structure in the NHL, and how forwards attack.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

He's either being covered by a really damn good defensive D or he's not trash defensively. Last time I checked, Scuderi and Bortuzzo aren't really damn good defensive D. It's not hard to connect the dots.

I'm not saying Pouliot is the best defensive D on the Pens based on GA/60, I'm saying his defense isn't "not remotely close to NHL caliber" like you said. That just seems like a purely opinionated statement that the stats don't support.

So because he's playing with the Pens worst Dmen he's good defensively? That makes no sense.

 

[penguins2946*]

So because he's playing with the Pens worst Dmen he's good defensively? That makes no sense.

No, I literally never said that. Read what I said. I pointed out that Pouliot has a great GA/60 ratio so far in his career, and that means he's either being covered by a really good defensive D or he has NHL caliber defense. I never said he was good defensively, nor did I ever say he was good defensively because he plays with Bortuzzo or Scuderi.