Did The Leafs Mismanage Gardiner/Franson This Summer?

[Duke Silver]

Nylander is the same height as Crosby and Giroux. First of.

if Deangelo was a generational talent, he wouldn't have been selected at 19.

and if Fabbri is unbelieveable value at 21, he wouldn't have been selected at 21, unless you are saying that everyone from 1 through 18 screwed up and missed out on said Generational Talent and Unbelievable Value.

in regards to Jake, i would just like it if he stopped trying to catch butterflies with his hockey stick.

If you feel like cringing, just look at his post history. All you need to know about taking him seriously.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Honestly, it drives me nuts that everyone tosses Robidas (and his very manageable 3 million) contract like "oh well if we didn't have him, we'd have Franson!"

I can not stress enough that we need players like Robidas. Yes he's 37 and he had broken legs, but every game he's playing more and more steady, and he is needed. If Whitney was available i would have been we need him for the forwards.

the oldest person on the team was Tim Gleason and Jay McClemment and they were 31 years old each. this team needs to have players who was born greater than 1980. I'm sorry.

Sticking Percy and Holzer into the bottom pairing is all well and good - but then what?

 

[RLF]

I find it odd how Jakes past good play, how infrequent it has been is relevant to some, but Franson's isn't, it's just how bad Franson was last year... playing mostly with Jake BTW.
Jake was not a beast for most of last season, that's just short term memory, he got almost all his points in the last 20 games or so. Otherwise, he was average at best. He is also not a very good passer, so I'm not sure where people get that from. Hockey sense is at best average.
When he looks dominate is when he skates with and controls the puck...that does not translate to hockey sense. He is a rover, who when things are going his way, he recovers well and gets accolades for his ability to recover. Again, that does not translate to good hockey sense it means he was out of position or made a bad decision but recovered.
He has skills, but he is soft, looks like he plays scared often and doesn't seem to read plays well. Any player with his talent should be able to put short stretches of good play together, just like MDZ did, but the fact is, Jake has never shown much consistency or even consistent hockey sense.

 

[paulhiggins]

Something about Gardiner reminds me of Jim McKenny. Among other things, he might just need a Brian Glennie style defence partner.

 

[AustonMitchWilly]

Nylander is the same height as Crosby and Giroux. First of.

LOL I stopped reading after the first line. #nailedit

 

[Pi]

It's pretty telling in the tale of the stats this season. No comparison. Franson in a landslide.

Franson 3.3M x 1

28 games, 19 points, +9

Gardiner 4.05M per x 5

30 games, 8 points, -10

We ****ed up and signed the wrong player on a long term deal. Hope Gardiner still has value to some team out there that isn't paying attention to his game.

Gardiner is done. He's got talent in terms of skating but all the other parts of his game are lagging far behind.

Afraid of contact, can't pass, can't shoot, makes idiotic mistakes and plays the puck above his head more times in a game than some players in a year.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

We ****ed up and signed the wrong player on a long term deal. Hope Gardiner still has value to some team out there that isn't paying attention to his game.

Gardiner is done. He's got talent in terms of skating but all the other parts of his game are lagging far behind.

Afraid of contact, can't pass, can't shoot, makes idiotic mistakes and plays the puck above his head more times in a game than some players in a year.

Hopefully the person who had a large influence in player personnel was let go, I doubt Hunter would have put his stamp of approval on the 5 year deal.

 

[Daisy Jane]

We ****ed up and signed the wrong player on a long term deal. Hope Gardiner still has value to some team out there that isn't paying attention to his game.

Gardiner is done. He's got talent in terms of skating but all the other parts of his game are lagging far behind.

Afraid of contact, can't pass, can't shoot, makes idiotic mistakes and plays the puck above his head more times in a game than some players in a year.

did we really though, Pi?
even if we gave Jake a bridge deal like everyone suggested (and it's looking more and more maybe with Jake that would have behooved him though, I don't think having him on a JVR deal is a bad deal in theory).

Cody Franson was hot garbage last season and if we gave him Jake's deal, I would have freaked out. Points aside. He was slow, he was pinching horrendously, he was making egregious decisions. he is playing amazingly well now, but there is this little niggling feeling in the pit of my belly that is saying that this is contract-year playing.

If his play levels off - is it third pairing Cody Franson? or is it just - this Franson with the occasional brain fart? OR is it shades of last season?

if Dion and He play well together -what does that mean for other players? can we feel confident in sliding him down pairings for mentoring, (or that Rielly or Percy or 'insert amazing trade for someone here' ) can Franson's play be amazing still?

I don't know. and that's the 'itchy' thing. I get that Market Value dictates that's what Franson should get. and I do believe that it 'pays off' if you make theplayoffs and he's a key part. but I wonder if that much money + this market = disaster for Franson.

 

[Duke Silver]

We ****ed up and signed the wrong player on a long term deal. Hope Gardiner still has value to some team out there that isn't paying attention to his game.

Gardiner is done. He's got talent in terms of skating but all the other parts of his game are lagging far behind.

Afraid of contact, can't pass, can't shoot, makes idiotic mistakes and plays the puck above his head more times in a game than some players in a year.

That's all nice and rosy in hindsight, but would you have signed Franson long-term after the disastrous season he had last year? Pretend you're making this decision in July instead of December.

It's easy to criticize decisions 5 months after they have been made. But put yourself in Nonis' shoes at that point of time and tell me which player you would have made a long-term offer to.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Dreger: If he were Nonis, he'd trade Jake + whatever for Yandle. so IF we lose Franson, at least we have Yandle.

i agree.

 

[Purity*]

did we really though, Pi?
even if we gave Jake a bridge deal like everyone suggested (and it's looking more and more maybe with Jake that would have behooved him though, I don't think having him on a JVR deal is a bad deal in theory).

Cody Franson was hot garbage last season and if we gave him Jake's deal, I would have freaked out. Points aside. He was slow, he was pinching horrendously, he was making egregious decisions. he is playing amazingly well now, but there is this little niggling feeling in the pit of my belly that is saying that this is contract-year playing.

If his play levels off - is it third pairing Cody Franson? or is it just - this Franson with the occasional brain fart? OR is it shades of last season?

if Dion and He play well together -what does that mean for other players? can we feel confident in sliding him down pairings for mentoring, (or that Rielly or Percy or 'insert amazing trade for someone here' ) can Franson's play be amazing still?

I don't know. and that's the 'itchy' thing. I get that Market Value dictates that's what Franson should get. and I do believe that it 'pays off' if you make theplayoffs and he's a key part. but I wonder if that much money + this market = disaster for Franson.

It's typical "what have you done for me lately" mentality that runs rampant on this board. Franson, at Gardiner's age, was also extremely inconsistent, getting scratched from the lineup, and also had many questions surrounding his "hockey IQ."

Franson, right now, is playing his guts out for a big contract, because it's his last real shot at a big one. Prior to this year, his role was mostly a 3rd-pairing PP specialist. He's UFA at the end of the season, which means he gets a big pay-day no matter what. With Dion locked at 7M and Franson arguably getting 5.6+, upgrading our top pairing on D would prove almost impossible.

There's a reason management rolled the dice on Gardiner, they see his potential and the ability he's shown in the past. Look around the league at the elite teams. Pietrangelo, Keith, Doughty, etc... are all on terrific contracts. You'd never see any of those teams paying Franson 5.6+. So much hindsight BS in this thread.

 

[Daisy Jane]

It's typical "what have you done for me lately" mentality that runs rampant on this board. Franson, at Gardiner's age, was also extremely inconsistent, getting scratched from the lineup, and also had many questions surrounding his "hockey IQ."

Franson, right now, is playing his guts out for a big contract, because it's his last real shot at a big one. Prior to this year, his role was mostly a 3rd-pairing PP specialist. He's UFA at the end of the season, which means he gets a big pay-day no matter what. With Dion locked at 7M and Franson arguably getting 5.6+, upgrading our top pairing on D would prove almost impossible.

There's a reason management rolled the dice on Gardiner, they see his potential and the ability he's shown in the past. Look around the league at the elite teams. Pietrangelo, Keith, Doughty, etc... are all on terrific contracts. You'd never see any of those teams paying Franson 5.6+. So much hindsight BS in this thread.

well not really, because interactif has been straight on the same with Jake, he didn't like the contract etc. I still don't mind Jake's contract per se. It's a typical JVR contract. High enough that you question it if the player doesn't live up to it - totally underpaid if he does. Moveable because you have a risky talent and all GM's go "well we can fix him here.", and beneficial because you did buy up UFA years.

i stand by what I said.
I think this was a good contract in theory for Jake. Jake right now isn't living up to it, and he may not. He could just be an "All the tools but nothing to carry it " type of player. He COULD be overthinking it (because when he turns it off, he's very good). it COULD be coaching there are a lot of coulds for Jake.

and if it were up to me, I'd trade him. In don't care if he lights it up somewhere else, because that's not how i'd run my team. Some people just do better somewhere else. the end.

But if it were up to me, i'd be selling high on Franson on the off chance this play = UFA cash in. i doubt that happens though.

 

[Epictetus]

Honestly, it drives me nuts that everyone tosses Robidas (and his very manageable 3 million) contract like "oh well if we didn't have him, we'd have Franson!"

I can not stress enough that we need players like Robidas. Yes he's 37 and he had broken legs, but every game he's playing more and more steady, and he is needed. If Whitney was available i would have been we need him for the forwards.

the oldest person on the team was Tim Gleason and Jay McClemment and they were 31 years old each. this team needs to have players who was born greater than 1980. I'm sorry.

Sticking Percy and Holzer into the bottom pairing is all well and good - but then what?

You've made no argument in this post, other than stating your sentence, which is that we really need Robidas.

You've even stated possible replacements in your last post, which are apparently wrong, because?

Honestly there are no arguments for why we need Robidas and his 3 million cap hit.

This obsession about defensive d-man is why people think a Gorges for Franson trade is somehow beneficial.

 

[Jacquestrapless]

Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke · 2h 2 hours ago
Think Dreger's on to something there RE Gardiner. At end of year last year both Gardiner & Rielly said they decided to start taking chances

Hope_Smoke @Hope_Smoke · 5h 5 hours ago
Rielly & Gardiner have said Carlyle came up to them after and said he wanted to see more of that from them. Makes sense.

I haven't seen any offensive creativity from either of these guys in while. Rielly is playing well but his offensive contributions were one of the reasons we picked him at 5. We should let em play their game

 

[Daisy Jane]

You've made no argument in this post, other than stating your sentence, which is that we really need Robidas.

You've even stated possible replacements in your last post, which are apparently wrong, because?

Honestly there are no arguments for why we need Robidas and his 3 million cap hit.

This obsession about defensive d-man is why people think a Gorges for Franson trade is somehow beneficial.

well I don't care about defensive vs. offensive. I just want defensemen who know how to defend. period. if you can put thepuck in the net and move it out all the the better to you.

We need Robidas (or players like him), because of the experience he brings, Morgan etc, has commented almost all the time how he is helping his play and the little things that he never thought about before. He's mentoring the younger-ish players, I think he brings in a lot of leadership in the locker room.


If we could get another Older player who is cheaper, than I am all about trading Robidas. I didn't say other options. I meant to say - if it wasn't clear. if we could have gotten Whitney (or someone else as well) for the forwards, I would have done. we need more experienced yoeman players.

(shrug)


I won't cry if he got traded - but I think players like him are needed for this team.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

well not really, because interactif has been straight on the same with Jake, he didn't like the contract etc. I still don't mind Jake's contract per se. It's a typical JVR contract. High enough that you question it if the player doesn't live up to it - totally underpaid if he does. Moveable because you have a risky talent and all GM's go "well we can fix him here.", and beneficial because you did buy up UFA years.

i stand by what I said.
I think this was a good contract in theory for Jake. Jake right now isn't living up to it, and he may not. He could just be an "All the tools but nothing to carry it " type of player. He COULD be overthinking it (because when he turns it off, he's very good). it COULD be coaching there are a lot of coulds for Jake.

and if it were up to me, I'd trade him. In don't care if he lights it up somewhere else, because that's not how i'd run my team. Some people just do better somewhere else. the end.

But if it were up to me, i'd be selling high on Franson on the off chance this play = UFA cash in. i doubt that happens though.

Thanks Daisy! I have been consistent on Jake from his signing to now. I can respect people who liked the signing, but my position from day one was he was too inconsistent(good Jake, bad Jake) to reward 20 million ways. I am a big believer in playing for a contract, you only reward players as RFA when they have shown commendable play and character. Leafs would no doubt like a redo.

 

[Epictetus]

well I don't care about defensive vs. offensive. I just want defensemen who know how to defend. period. if you can put thepuck in the net and move it out all the the better to you.

We need Robidas (or players like him), because of the experience he brings, Morgan etc, has commented almost all the time how he is helping his play and the little things that he never thought about before. He's mentoring the younger-ish players, I think he brings in a lot of leadership in the locker room.


If we could get another Older player who is cheaper, than I am all about trading Robidas. I didn't say other options. I meant to say - if it wasn't clear. if we could have gotten Whitney (or someone else as well) for the forwards, I would have done. we need more experienced yoeman players.

(shrug)


I won't cry if he got traded - but I think players like him are needed for this team.

It's probably just a difference of opinion, as I understand that quite a few people share your opinion about leadership, but having productive players in your line-up who can still play the game of hockey at this level, is much more important than leadership. The reason the Leafs have improved is due to enhancing their depth, not leadership.

A 3 year deal to a 37 year old is not, nor should ever be the way to go.

did we really though, Pi?
even if we gave Jake a bridge deal like everyone suggested (and it's looking more and more maybe with Jake that would have behooved him though, I don't think having him on a JVR deal is a bad deal in theory).

Cody Franson was hot garbage last season and if we gave him Jake's deal, I would have freaked out. Points aside. He was slow, he was pinching horrendously, he was making egregious decisions. he is playing amazingly well now, but there is this little niggling feeling in the pit of my belly that is saying that this is contract-year playing.

If his play levels off - is it third pairing Cody Franson? or is it just - this Franson with the occasional brain fart? OR is it shades of last season?

if Dion and He play well together -what does that mean for other players? can we feel confident in sliding him down pairings for mentoring, (or that Rielly or Percy or 'insert amazing trade for someone here' ) can Franson's play be amazing still?

I don't know. and that's the 'itchy' thing. I get that Market Value dictates that's what Franson should get. and I do believe that it 'pays off' if you make theplayoffs and he's a key part. but I wonder if that much money + this market = disaster for Franson.

Franson is one of the few d-man who actually produce offensively. This is not a knock on other players, but he's essential when he has a clearly defined role, which is something he has this year. You can't expect a player to flip defensive pairings, ice-time, and play with defensively incompetent forwards and have much success. Everything around Franson this year is constant.

I'd like to see the same for Gardiner, it's actually quite clear he's terrible when playing with the first line.

 

[Leaf19]

Honestly I think we should give him another 10 or 15 games to get his **** together and if he doesn't, we should try him on the wing. The last few games Gardiner has looked lethal when he brings the puck into the zone. His natural talent is much more suited towards being a winger than a defenceman.

If he can put up 40-50 points as a forward his contract won't look as bad. Right now, if he keeps making boneheaded plays in his own zone that contract will soon become an anchor like Clarkson.

With Franson it's a real tough one. Although he's playing the best hockey of his life right now, we have to remember that he's playing for that big UFA payout ala Niskanen. Would he be as motivated if he was locked up long term like Gardiner? Or would he go back to his last years self?

It feels like Gardiner and Franson switched bodies or something lol but if Franson can turn it around after a season like last, then I'm sure Gardiner can too.

I would trade Franson as early as possible to get the most value from him (unless he can fetch the same at TDL as he can today).

 

[dubplatepressure]

You'll never see Franson traded if there isn't a guy capable of playing those minutes with Dion. Right now that might be Robidas, who looks better and better, or Rielly, who saw some minutes with Dion in the last game. Neither I'd bank on right now given we are in a playoff spot. Huge money for the franchise if we see post season time, that factor cannot be dismissed.

 

[Warden of the North]

Revisionist history. Almost everyone wanted Franson gone over the summer. If management had signed him long term in the off-season this board would have burned down.

Management did the right thing at the time.

 

[LeafsKessel]

I think Gardiner will be hard to trade. He is playing too offensively.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Thanks Daisy! I have been consistent on Jake from his signing to now. I can respect people who liked the signing, but my position from day one was he was too inconsistent(good Jake, bad Jake) to reward 20 million ways. I am a big believer in playing for a contract, you only reward players as RFA when they have shown commendable play and character. Leafs would no doubt like a redo.

You're welcome. and you know, that is fair. my counter had been -maybe the security would temper his game, but I don't mind conceding that you were probably right in this case. too inconsistent, and now he's.. just bad Jake. . I personally don't know what it is, and I don't buy into the whole "it's Randy's fault!!" that some tend to default to.

Someone (and robidas mentioned on Leafs lunch that he's been doing this), needs to talk to him and just tell him to calm the heck down and play hockey. (and stop trying to whack pucks with a high stick)

I personally feel there are a tonne of contracts that Nonis has done that he wants a re-do on, not just Jakes.

It's probably just a difference of opinion, as I understand that quite a few people share your opinion about leadership, but having productive players in your line-up who can still play the game of hockey at this level, is much more important than leadership. The reason the Leafs have improved is due to enhancing their depth, not leadership.

A 3 year deal to a 37 year old is not, nor should ever be the way to go.

I'd like to see the same for Gardiner, it's actually quite clear he's terrible when playing with the first line.

Maybe. (I'm not discounting it) and in an ideal world i'd like to have both. I wouldn't sacrifice production for the leadership -but i think that there needs to be some.

I do acknowledge my bias in this matter, because I like Robidas and I'm actually pleased as punch that's he's a Leaf

Revisionist history. Almost everyone wanted Franson gone over the summer. If management had signed him long term in the off-season this board would have burned down.

Management did the right thing at the time.

Exactly. Everyone is all like "oohhh we traded Franny wrong." I don't think so. Wilson treated Franson like poop, Nonis takes over and gives Franson a 1 year contract to prove that he was good. He did that in the shortened season, then was offered a two year contract that he turned down, to which by the time Kadri and Raymond were signed there wasn't a lot of money. (there was back and forth here, but I DO remember that Nonis had offered him term, but less dollars, then Franson countered with less term, more dollars, to which Nonis said, haha, no, signed those two, and Franson got his one year deal)

then. Franson was horrible. Even if wewant to say "Oh but Injuries!" it didn't exclude his horrible decisions, his horrible defensive play, and his horrible lack of game,minus the points that he put up. then he pretty much played Arbitration Chicken (and said fine) and is NOW playing well, to which everyone is all like PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY! which - okay is fair, because Orpik did it/got it, Niskakin did it/got it, and what was thefirst thought: holy overpayment for Orpik and Niskain.

for me -Cody Franson hurt himself by holding out and then not taking the two year bridge deal offered two years ago. because had he not missed camp (or wasn't injured) then i could rest easy and be all like this is three years of consistent play. but it isn't, and i do not trust UFA contract years at all. And I say this as someone who likes Franson alot. I'd really like him to stay here, but I just feel like we are courting a hecka lot of trouble by giving him that much money in this market

 

[RLF]

You're welcome. and you know, that is fair. my counter had been -maybe the security would temper his game, but I don't mind conceding that you were probably right in this case. too inconsistent, and now he's.. just bad Jake. . I personally don't know what it is, and I don't buy into the whole "it's Randy's fault!!" that some tend to default to.

Someone (and robidas mentioned on Leafs lunch that he's been doing this), needs to talk to him and just tell him to calm the heck down and play hockey. (and stop trying to whack pucks with a high stick)

I personally feel there are a tonne of contracts that Nonis has done that he wants a re-do on, not just Jakes.




Maybe. (I'm not discounting it) and in an ideal world i'd like to have both. I wouldn't sacrifice production for the leadership -but i think that there needs to be some.

I do acknowledge my bias in this matter, because I like Robidas and I'm actually pleased as punch that's he's a Leaf




Exactly. Everyone is all like "oohhh we traded Franny wrong." I don't think so. Wilson treated Franson like poop, Nonis takes over and gives Franson a 1 year contract to prove that he was good. He did that in the shortened season, then was offered a two year contract that he turned down, to which by the time Kadri and Raymond were signed there wasn't a lot of money. (there was back and forth here, but I DO remember that Nonis had offered him term, but less dollars, then Franson countered with less term, more dollars, to which Nonis said, haha, no, signed those two, and Franson got his one year deal)

then. Franson was horrible. Even if wewant to say "Oh but Injuries!" it didn't exclude his horrible decisions, his horrible defensive play, and his horrible lack of game,minus the points that he put up. then he pretty much played Arbitration Chicken (and said fine) and is NOW playing well, to which everyone is all like PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY! which - okay is fair, because Orpik did it/got it, Niskakin did it/got it, and what was thefirst thought: holy overpayment for Orpik and Niskain.

for me -Cody Franson hurt himself by holding out and then not taking the two year bridge deal offered two years ago. because had he not missed camp (or wasn't injured) then i could rest easy and be all like this is three years of consistent play. but it isn't, and i do not trust UFA contract years at all. And I say this as someone who likes Franson alot. I'd really like him to stay here, but I just feel like we are courting a hecka lot of trouble by giving him that much money in this market

I agree with you on Robidas, his leadership is needed.

Disagree on Franson though, Myself and a small few others have defended Cody, even in his off year. As for contract, Kadri held out too, which no one seems to talk about because Nonis caved and gave him more money to sign a 2 year bridge deal. People act like Cody was offered good money for a two year bridge, rumour was it was less than $2mil per for 2 years, then he settled on $2mil for 1 year.

Take a look at the money Cody has signed for Daisy and where he finished in pts for D and he has always been underpaid. He has asked for commitment and Nonis wouldn't give it. He was solid under Wilson, very good in the shortened season and poor last year. Jake has never been solid for more than 20 games a season and gets 5 years at $4mil per...and then they play hardball with Cody even though he just lead your D in points for 2 seasons, not Jake, not Dion, but Cody.

Then to top it off, they try and trade him and after that...he still signs another 1 year deal and avoids arbitration where he would have likely been awarded more money and if the Leafs didn't pay it, he becomes a free agent and could have went where ever for whatever another team would have offered.. Instead he signed so he could stay a Leaf for sure for whatever offered, because Nonis had already spent money on others(Jake and Robidas).

Negotiations may have been tough, but let's not just blame Franson for this...the Leafs have shown little to no interest(No term or real money and then trying to trade him) of wanting him here long term.

 

[Stand Witness]

Hindsight it 20/20. Franson was terrible last year and I wouldn't have even wished the Habs to have to deal with him. Gardiner had a hot end to the season and a full year younger looking like he still has room to grow.

Now Franson looks like a legitimate top 3/4 D-man while Gardiner is making plays that question if he has any hockey IQ at all.

So yes management made the right decision at the time. Absolutely no proof that Franson would have done what he has this season but I guess you could argue that it isn't surprising Jake is playing like this.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I agree with you on Robidas, his leadership is needed.

Disagree on Franson though, Myself and a small few others have defended Cody, even in his off year. As for contract, Kadri held out too, which no one seems to talk about because Nonis caved and gave him more money to sign a 2 year bridge deal. People act like Cody was offered good money for a two year bridge, rumour was it was less than $2mil per for 2 years, then he settled on $2mil for 1 year.

Take a look at the money Cody has signed for Daisy and where he finished in pts for D and he has always been underpaid. He has asked for commitment and Nonis wouldn't give it. He was solid under Wilson, very good in the shortened season and poor last year. Jake has never been solid for more than 20 games a season and gets 5 years at $4mil per...and then they play hardball with Cody even though he just lead your D in points for 2 seasons, not Jake, not Dion, but Cody.

Then to top it off, they try and trade him and after that...he still signs another 1 year deal and avoids arbitration where he would have likely been awarded more money and if the Leafs didn't pay it, he becomes a free agent and could have went where ever for whatever another team would have offered.. Instead he signed so he could stay a Leaf for sure for whatever offered, because Nonis had already spent money on others(Jake and Robidas).

Negotiations may have been tough, but let's not just blame Franson for this...the Leafs have shown little to no interest(No term or real money and then trying to trade him) of wanting him here long term.

I think the reason why Kadri is never mentioned that 'he held out' (minus again interactif - ) is because Kadri didn't miss camp. Franson did, and it has been documented that missing camp can affect you for your entire year. (it didn't with Subban but i think that is very much against the normal. At the same time though, it could be seen as -well, Subban -for what he means/represents to Montreal was grossly mis-treated, turned around won the Norris, and pretty much helped Montreal get to game 6 of the ECF). Cody Franson held out, and played horribly).

If it sounds like I am totally blaming Franson, then I am sorry, that was not my intention. However, I do think it was not in his best interest to not take the lower two year deal. I would have taken it, not missed camp, and proven that the shortened season was not a fluke, and I was worth investing in two years time (which would have been this year). that's all I mean. For me personally, (and I say this as someone who legitimately likes Cody Franson) his play last year scares me, because in my head I don't know what that translates to. Was that just a fluke "bad year" was it really just "injuries and missing camp?" or is the mean average of Cody Franson's play that of a mixture of last year and this. ie: is he playing his guts out for a contract. (which most people tend to do)

As I remember it (and since it's two years ago, I could be wrong this is how it went.
Both Nazzy and Cody rejected their offers. (but to keep this on Cody, we'll talk just about what happened to him, I finally found the thread that talked about it in 2013)

Alrighty. in 2013, Cody rejected the qualifying offer (which we don't know what it was), and wanted a long term contract with 4 million dollars at the base. the Leafs countered with a bridge deal (which would have ended this year), for under 3 million, to which i said, why not meet in the middle and have 1 higher year and one lower deal that is closer to 3 million than to 4 but Cody could have that security and hit UFA anyway.

(he also did not choose to file for Arbitration in 2013).

this is the tweet

Bob McKenzie @TSNBobMcKenzie
Franson was eligible for salary arb but didn't file. Believed to want long term (4 yrs at $4M+ per). TOR aiming short, yr or 2 at <$3M per.

then i remember that they were trying to get Cody signed first, and they offered 2 years at a higher number, to which then Cody countered with 1year 4 million (so he could have his arbitration rights, then the Leafs signed Nazzy, and Raymond, camp started, and Cody signed for what he signed with by the end of camp.


I will maintain had Cody signed first, he'd probably have Raymond's money added to his contract, Nazzy would have had the left over, and there wouldn't have been any 'real' commitment to Raymond (because he was only on a PTO). Franson's decisions in that regard, cost him a year (to prove himself), and that extra bit of money (to hold on to arbitration rights, which he didn't accept again this off season).

I don't blame management for trying to move him to "try to make the team better" (though Gorges. Really?). in trying to trade him, though I do think it must be frustrating that Nonis (particularly) makes dumb dumb decisions money related, and it usually impacts how Cody is treated anyway. However, something that could be considered is that Shanahan stated that he sees the future blueline being patrolled by Rielly and Franson. So we know Shanahan has Franson's back. (how that translates, I don't know).

with regards to Jake.... like i said, it is tricky, he suffered his concussion and struggled #freegardiner (crap), but when he came back and started to get on a roll, he + Cody were both amazing in the playoffs

For me - i saw Jake's play pick up after the Winter Classic and he was steady and really took off during the hot streak in January-olympic break, and then of course the last stretch he looked the best when everyone else looked like crap. (I won't take that away from him either, I personally feel he stepped up. now. you can counter did he step up, or was everyone else just not performing to their best. THAT I can't answer - but I do think his play last season was more than "20 games of being good.").

as it is being boiled down to now - the Leafs really want to keep Franson, and are trying to trade Jake. (in case Franson leaves -hence why they are targeting Yandle). Again, I don't know if i'd give Franson ALL THE MONEY because I don't know how it will work out next year for him (esp. in this market).


here is the thread for reference. (I was totally team Let's Get Cody Signed, until he wanted 1 year 4 million i believe )