Did The Leafs Mismanage Gardiner/Franson This Summer?

[Peasy]

Well we can thank Dubas for that Gardiner contract.

 

[samwitch]

I'm not saying he isn't struggling hard, he has 0 confidence right now. I'm saying let him play through it.

I understand, but I just don't think he is going to change. He is what he is. He will never be hard to play against, and that's what I want on this team. I'm a Leaf fan, so I want him to come out of it as a better player, but I am skeptical about his intensity and his decision making. Hopefully these things can be improved upon.

 

[Al14]

Well, Franson is going to want to cash after this year if he keeps putting up solid numbers like he is now. I don't know if that's the right move from the Leafs perspective.

Gardiner's play is concerning.

I wouldn't mind seeing the both of them shipped out.

Can we package the 2 of them for a number 1 centre?

Staal??? <--- As long as none of our 1st round draft picks are involved, as Staal's contract is ridiculous at this point!

 

[Bullseye]

I would say your opinion of what we can get for Gardiner is so far from the true. Easily a 1st round pick...He is a NHL defenseman...He makes mistakes but he is playing scared and we have our idiot coach to blame for that...

Can I have some of what you're smoking? It's about the fundamentals of the position - he doesn't employ any of them. Case in point - when blocking a clean shot standing up - keep your legs together so there isn't a screen V to shoot through - basic defense training - look at the 1st goal last night - I can list 10 other things he doesn't do that Bantam players do. I'm not talking generalities like "he's an elite skater" he actually turns the wrong way when engaging the puck carrier...

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The genius that is the Leafs management has built a defense full of offensive defenseman.

YES !!!

This is the only hope of the Leafs winning anything in the next few years.

#1) Bernier ripens into the dominant goalie in the NHL.
#2) The Leafs play a Defense First style game to support #1.

The Leafs style of play will never make it through 4 rounds of the playoffs.
Maybe 1.
But not 4.

 

[Purity*]

Patience, people. JGards has yet to reach his potential.

OMG GARDINER ISN'T INSTANTLY AMAZING AND FRANSON IS HAVING A BETTER SEASON LEAFS MANAGEMENT IS SO STUPID OMG OMG ROFLCOPTER

Sums it up nicely.

 

[Primary Assist]

Well we can thank Dubas for that Gardiner contract.

That's news to me....

 

[Suntouchable13]

The question is why do the Leafs keep locking up these guys that are part of this losing core? Keep re-signing those guys and keep being a middling team at best. I think they should move one of those guys along.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Instead of selling low on Gardiner and buying high on Franson we should do the opposite. Move Franson at the deadline for a nice return and keep Gardiner.

 

[PuckMagi]

Instead of selling low on Gardiner and buying high on Franson we should do the opposite. Move Franson at the deadline for a nice return and keep Gardiner.

agreed. Gardiner is a much better hockey player than Franson IMO.

 

[Menzinger]

Franson's shooting % is something like 5th highest among defencemen in the league -meaning it isnt likely to be sustainable. Based on age and past season's level of play Gardiner is still the best investment

 

[Ricky Bobby]

The genius that is the Leafs management has built a defense full of offensive defenseman. How about building a team with defenseman who can actually play defense? I would like to see both of them gone.

I'd also support moving both of them.

Franson is simply playing at his peak right now but in 10 or 20 games fans will likely turn on him again. Franson shouldn't be judged based on his recent hot streak. His whole body of work to date indicates he's more of # 4 PP specialist. Not a guy worth a long term big dollar deal and we should get whatever futures we can for him + save cap space.

Gardiner simply has all the tools and no toolbox. The allure of his skating is wearing off because his decision making has advanced. I also question his ability to compete when faced with any adversity. Rielly should enough take over Gardiner spot as the PP QB on the top unit and Percy or Finn are also left PP options that are coming along shortly. Dealing Gardiner doesn't need to happen this because he's locked up long term but I don't see him as a core piece.

I'd also look to deal Polak this deadline. I personally like him on the 3rd pair but he's a UFA after next season and his trade value would never be higher than this deadline. It'd be a great chance to finally sell high on a player.

 

[seanlinden]

Yeah, no. Not how the cap business of hockey works, and Shanny is not going to let Nonis make poor moves to try and save his job. Franson will be traded if they don't sign him, it's almost guaranteed. No one is fooled by this team anymore, we arn't going to be making stupid moves to try and improve non existent post season sucess (aka Clarkson and Bolland), and I wouldn't be shocked if this team took a step back this year after Shanny has had his time to evaluate.

We're not talking about business of hockey, we're talking about hockey... period.

If the business of hockey (cap) prevents a positive move from happening, that's life, but you're absolutely nuts if you think a person in this game is going to look at a team that has a chance to elevate themselves by making the playoffs, and begins to dismantle themselves so that they don't have a chance of doing. You're even crazier if you think that person is going to have a job the next day.

 

[topched]

My 2 cents is that we should absolutely be moving Franson at the trade deadline. He's having an excellent season as it is, and regardless of where we are in the standing she should be moved.

The money he's going to get will be far too rich, and we've got enough young dmen that can vye for his spot.

Essentially Robidas has taken a good chunk of his money

 

[Super Mega]

the difference is one guys is entering next year as UFA with no contract and the other is under contract with term - this will effect their level of play dramatically.

I wish that wasn't the case but it is.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Chickens come home to roost soon.

Bernier, Kadri and Franson all need new contracts next season and there are rumours that the Cap may not go up.

So there may not be Cap room to keep Franson beyond this season and since he is a pending UFA he is going to want a big $$$ payday and is playing like he is in a contract year.

Many teams are looking for RH shooting PP capable Dman and I think Franson is going to test the UFA waters now.

Should the Leafs have locked him up long-term perhaps, but he was coming off a team worst -20 +/- and that made getting a long-term contract much harder based on his play.

Not that it isnt fixable but soon it will have to be fixed. NewsFlash : Carlyle cannot turn Gardiner into S. Nidermayer pt deux. We do have too much offense and not enough defense. We also have Reilly and Percy coming through. Those big contracts could force us to lose good players soon.

 

[seanlinden]

the difference is one guys is entering next year as UFA with no contract and the other is under contract with term - this will effect their level of play dramatically.

I wish that wasn't the case but it is.

Certainly a possibility, but I do have to wonder how great the extent of that effect is... especially considering that Franson has been an impending RFA for the last 3 years.

Not that it isnt fixable but soon it will have to be fixed. NewsFlash : Carlyle cannot turn Gardiner into S. Nidermayer pt deux. We do have too much offense and not enough defense. We also have Reilly and Percy coming through. Those big contracts could force us to lose good players soon.

This is what I'm trying to get at/allude to....

Let's look at the alternative, where we signed Franson long term for $4.5m, and gave Gardiner a $2.5-$2.75m 1 or 2 year deal.

Looking to next year, if Percy did elevate his game, perhaps Gardiner becomes trade bait alongside a Polak/Robidas to get a really solid #2 stay-at-home guy? That we could either pay with Phaneuf or Rielly.

 

[Purity*]

I'd also support moving both of them.

Franson is simply playing at his peak right now but in 10 or 20 games fans will likely turn on him again. Franson shouldn't be judged based on his recent hot streak. His whole body of work to date indicates he's more of # 4 PP specialist. Not a guy worth a long term big dollar deal and we should get whatever futures we can for him + save cap space.

Gardiner simply has all the tools and no toolbox. The allure of his skating is wearing off because his decision making has advanced. I also question his ability to compete when faced with any adversity. Rielly should enough take over Gardiner spot as the PP QB on the top unit and Percy or Finn are also left PP options that are coming along shortly. Dealing Gardiner doesn't need to happen this because he's locked up long term but I don't see him as a core piece.

I'd also look to deal Polak this deadline. I personally like him on the 3rd pair but he's a UFA after next season and his trade value would never be higher than this deadline. It'd be a great chance to finally sell high on a player.

He was our best player in crunch time last season when the rest of our team absolutely **** the bed. A very good case can also be made for him being our best player in the Bruins series 2 years ago. Gardiner is a defensemen who is prone to going through terrible stretches (and subsequently receives massive hate ala Franson last year) and great stretches. He's still only 24, there's lots of time left to figure things out. Typical Leafs mentality that if a player isn't a bonafide superstar by 21 years old they're a bust.

 

[AuGsY]

Of course Nonis made a huge mistake with that Gardiner contract. It was a huge, unnecessary gamble on a player who's play didn't warrant it. He needs to trade Gardiner before it's too late. Make no mistake.. Gardiners contract will be worse than Clarksons. Clarkson is an NHL player with intangibles, Gardiner is an AHL tweener with the hockey IQ of a dog.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

He was our best player in crunch time last season when the rest of our team absolutely **** the bed. A very good case can also be made for him being our best player in the Bruins series 2 years ago. Gardiner is a defensemen who is prone to going through terrible stretches (and subsequently receives massive hate ala Franson last year) and great stretches. He's still only 24, there's lots of time left to figure things out. Typical Leafs mentality that if a player isn't a bonafide superstar by 21 years old they're a bust.

I haven't ever been a Gardiner fan or Franson fan so this isn't me throwing him under the bus.

Gardiner has all the tools but no toolbox. He routinely makes simple mistakes and I've regularly seen him refuse to take a hit to make a play which is a red flag.

He has had flashes where he has looked really good but those are blown out of proportion just like how much people viewed people like White or Grabo as more then what they were. I simply don't view him as developing into anything more then a 2nd pair player who struggles defensively 5 on 5 and isn't trusted to play the PK. That isn't a core piece worth protecting especially on a D group that has even younger and cheaper left Dmen in Rielly + Percy for offensive minutes (as well as Finn).

I don't view him as a bust but just not a core piece. Anyways we shouldn't be looking to deal him unless we get back something very nice which I doubt would happen right now.

 

[Trapper]

Everytime this team hits the skids, the names that come up to be moved are Kadri/Gardiner. Never Franson.
The Leafs added Komarov/Winnik/Santorelli to shore up the bottom 6.
Whatever they feel they need to get better will come from Kadri/Gardiner/Lupul/Reimer. I don't see Franson going anywhere.
This team needs cap space and for that reason Lupul is the only one that can provide it.

 

[bunjay]

Instead of selling low on Gardiner and buying high on Franson we should do the opposite. Move Franson at the deadline for a nice return and keep Gardiner.

This is exactly right. Franson is nowhere near as good as his point totals suggest, even offensively. He's on a very lucky point streak, maybe there are GMs out there that dont realize hes not actually a good defenseman.

 

[I am Canadian]

Franson needs less minutes not top pairing minutes. The best year is when he was paired with Mark Fraser and playing like 12 minute I think?

 

[Hockey Talker29]

When evaluating players, it's important to avoid focusing on short term memory.

Franson was brutal last year. It will take more than a really good 20 game performance to change my perspective on him.

I thought Gardiner was very good last year. It will take more than 20 games for me to change my mind about him as well.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Gardiner has shown very little ability to think the game at a decent level, this is something that has dogged him since his draft year, the fact that we are still questioning his hockey IQ today, is certainly a tell he is likely going to be saddled with this question his entire career. Players do not suddenly get smarter, I said this earlier this week. Franson is not the brightest D man either, but he regularly out produces Gardiner, has size, and I would deem is a tad smarter. There is a thread I created about Gardiner's contract, seems prophetic now. 20+M totally premature.