Did The Leafs Mismanage Gardiner/Franson This Summer?

[Rufio65*]

Gardiner is the epitome of a coach killer. He is uncoachable. No cure for soft and no cure for stupid.

 

[Durrr]

Gardiner has the puck on his stick a lot more than most defencemen, and thus is prone to more turnovers and mistakes. He will improve, as would any human.

He is most certainly an NHL defenseman - what an absurd statement to say he isn't.

Gardiner is playing pretty bad right now to be honest, but in theory I agree.

This thread is a giant pool of really bad ideas. Management didn't "mismanage" these players because one is having a good year (which also happens to be his payday year) and the younger one is struggling. Why would we trade Gardiner now when he's at his lowest value? Doesn't seem like anyone has a good grasp of the business world in here, nor the hockey one. For this reason alone, Franson will be traded in-season (if the Leafs are even semi-competent), when the leafs inevitably can't meet his contract demands.

A player with absolutely no confidence is "uncoachable" or "stupid"? Kinda embarrassing on most of your parts guys.

 

[Durrr]

Gardiner is the epitome of a coach killer. He is uncoachable. No cure for soft and no cure for stupid.

Cool Beans Bro

Not like Carlyle hasn't killed his own coaching career or anything, with piss poor statistics and decision making.

 

[Rufio65*]

Gardiner is playing pretty bad right now to be honest, but in theory I agree.

This thread is a giant pool of really bad ideas. Management didn't "mismanage" these players because one is having a good year (which also happens to be his payday year) and the younger one is struggling. Why would we trade Gardiner now when he's at his lowest value? Doesn't seem like anyone has a good grasp of the business world in here, nor the hockey one.

LOL why do you think that Gardiner is at his lowest value now? He's not going to get better and he is going to get continually exploited. You're hanging onto hope that isn't there.. This kid will not develop into a competent Dman. Once you played scared you're toast. This is still a mans game.

Gardiner=fraud

 

[Durrr]

LOL why do you think that Gardiner is at his lowest value now? He's not going to get better and he is going to get continually exploited. You're hanging onto hope that isn't there.. This kid will not develop into a competent Dman. Once you played scared you're toast. This is still a mans game.

Gardiner=fraud

Lmao, much like 26 year old Franson, who played some of the worst hockey of his career last season? Absolutely no way a 24 year old will improve, nope, he's peaked guys.

Please, joke of a post.

 

[Rufio65*]

Cool Beans Bro

Not like Carlyle hasn't killed his own coaching career or anything, with piss poor statistics and decision making.

Carlyle has a ring as a head coach. Who was the last Toronto coach to win a cup?

Carlyle isn't a miracle worker, he is just working with the fundamentally flawed team that Nonis has provided. Randy can stay or he can go but at least he's won a cup in the last half century.

 

[moonbal]

He keeps making the same ******* mistake - no look giveaway.
He actually regressed from the Boston series.

 

[Durrr]

Carlyle has a ring as a head coach. Who was the last Toronto coach to win a cup?

Carlyle isn't a miracle worker, he is just working with the fundamentally flawed team that Nonis has provided. Randy can stay or he can go but at least he's won a cup in the last half century.

I guess Anaheim was also a "fundamentally flawed" team while he was coaching them? I wonder what changed to put them back at the top now?

 

[samwitch]

Well, Franson is going to want to cash after this year if he keeps putting up solid numbers like he is now. I don't know if that's the right move from the Leafs perspective.

Gardiner's play is concerning.

I wouldn't mind seeing the both of them shipped out.

 

[Durrr]

Well, Franson is going to want to cash after this year if he keeps putting up solid numbers like he is now. I don't know if that's the right move from the Leafs perspective.

Gardiner's play is concerning.

I wouldn't mind seeing the both of them shipped out.

Franson will be shipped out at the trade deadline (or he absolutely should be), Gardiner will be kept.

 

[samwitch]

Franson will be shipped out at the trade deadline (or he absolutely should be), Gardiner will be kept.

I agree that Franson should be gone at or before the deadline. His value is going to be at potentially an all-time high. Gardiner needs to get his **** together. Too soft and seems to have low hockey IQ. I wouldn't mind Percy playing in his spot. Percy is a very smart defender who makes the simple play. Low risk player.

 

[Durrr]

I agree that Franson should be gone at or before the deadline. His value is going to be at potentially an all-time high. Gardiner needs to get his **** together. Too soft and seems to have low hockey IQ. I wouldn't mind Percy playing in his spot. Percy is a very smart defender who makes the simple play. Low risk player.

We said that about Gardiner in his first season, Percy will struggle as well. Gotta let Gardiner play through this, just like the coach is currently doing (just about the only thing I agree with Carlyle on). At least Carlyle understands that young defensemen are going to struggle.

 

[seanlinden]

Franson will be shipped out at the trade deadline (or he absolutely should be), Gardiner will be kept.

Doubtful.

Based on the way this season has gone so far, the Leafs will probably be in contention around deadline time, and there likely isn't a way for the Leafs to trade Franson and become a better team in the process.

 

[Durrr]

Doubtful.

Based on the way this season has gone so far, the Leafs will probably be in contention around deadline time, and there likely isn't a way for the Leafs to trade Franson and become a better team in the process.

It's not about getting better, it's about not letting a valuable asset expire for nothing. I guarantee Shanny is not going to let them make the same stupid mistake over and over again, because this is one of the reaspns the Leafs have been unable to build a better team. We give out draft picks like candy and don't replace them with expiring assets. The entire MGK line was lost for absolutely nothing, where all 3 of them could have netted at minimum a 2nd rounder (and non of them really helped with anything by keeping them).

Even Dreger (who I can't stand) reported that they would be looking for a trading partner for Franson if a deal can't be met. It's just smart business.

 

[seanlinden]

It's not about getting better, it's about not letting a valuable asset expire for nothing. I guarantee Shanny is not going to let them make the same stupid mistake over and over again, because this is one of the reals the Leafs have been unable to build a better team. We give out draft picks like candy and don't replace them with expiring assets. The entire MGK line was lost for absolutely nothing, where all 3 of them could have netted at minimum a 2nd rounder (and non of them really helped with anything by keeping them).

Of course it is. The object of the game of hockey is to score more goals than the other team. You do that, and you win. If you win enough, you make the playoffs. If you win enough in the playoffs, you win the cup.

If the playoffs (and therefore cup) is even a remotely realistic possibility, the Leafs are only going to make moves that make that help them score more goals than the other team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I would bet that we can easily get more for Gardiner then Franson. We get calls daily and I would bet anyone that Gardiner is asked about more then most.

The system that we play defensively relies on all players on the ice to read and react off of each other...The average fan only sees Gardiner mistakes and miss the poor reads of his partner Polak who misses rotations far to many time

No one even mentions this, not saying that Gardiner mistakes are Polak's but it is hard to play when your partner is not on the same page.

Franson has always been better then most on here have gave him credit for....He is slow and that will not change... I have always liked his game...watch the game and watch the leafs d zone coverage when Dion and Franson are on the ice....they are not playing the same coverage as the other two pairings. This is helping this pairing as their skating prevents them from playing the same system.

His play is not on Polak bud. We have seen it before Polak was here and it is completely on Gardiner here. The guy is in such a stupor that he doesn't even use his skating any longer. He fumbles with the puck,is very,very indecisive with the puck.

The indecisiveness coming up ice has congested the forwards at the blue line,which kills offensive flow. Then he rushes a poor pass or is left with limited option to skate the puck in. He is slow reading the play in all zone's for some strange reason.

Truthfully I don't understand what has happened to his confidence. I would like nothing better than to say he is improving but,it just would not be remotely true. Guards feet feet need to be moving to get more effective and he absolutely needs to gain the respect of his teammates with a more physical,confident game which is born out of work ethic.

He is a real mess all on his own right now bud and I would like to move him if he has offers coming. The cap saving is almost worth it alone the way he is playing.

 

[Durrr]

Of course it is. The object of the game of hockey is to score more goals than the other team. You do that, and you win. If you win enough, you make the playoffs. If you win enough in the playoffs, you win the cup.

If the playoffs (and therefore cup) is even a remotely realistic possibility, the Leafs are only going to make moves that make that help them score more goals than the other team.

Yeah, no. Not how the cap business of hockey works, and Shanny is not going to let Nonis make poor moves to try and save his job. Franson will be traded if they don't sign him, it's almost guaranteed. No one is fooled by this team anymore, we arn't going to be making stupid moves to try and improve non existent post season sucess (aka Clarkson and Bolland), and I wouldn't be shocked if this team took a step back this year after Shanny has had his time to evaluate.

 

[samwitch]

We said that about Gardiner in his first season, Percy will struggle as well. Gotta let Gardiner play through this, just like the coach is currently doing (just about the only thing I agree with Carlyle on). At least Carlyle understands that young defensemen are going to struggle.

Carlyle is not the only person who understands that idea and neither are you. Sure he has nice skating and good offensive abilities, but he is part of the problem surrounding this team. He is soft in his own zone and he doesn't make it difficult at all for the forwards going up against him. I don't hate Gardiner by any means, but I do think he needs to go. He's not the biggest problem or the only problem, but he is part of the problem in my opinion.

 

[yubbers]

He keeps making the same ******* mistake - no look giveaway.
He actually regressed from the Boston series.

He's afraid

Other teams now know and exploit this. Hit Gardiner hard once or twice and dump the puck in his corner the rest of the night.

He needs to man up or he's done as a defenseman.

 

[Durrr]

Carlyle is not the only person who understands that idea and neither are you. Sure he has nice skating and good offensive abilities, but he is part of the problem surrounding this team. He is soft in his own zone and he doesn't make it difficult at all for the forwards going up against him. I don't hate Gardiner by any means, but I do think he needs to go. He's not the biggest problem or the only problem, but he is part of the problem in my opinion.

Yet Carlyle is on record (via the assistant) stating that he doesn't want Gardiner going anywhere. He says you don't even think about moving a young D men with Gardiner's talent before he's played 200 games. I highly doubt this opinion has changed in 20 games.

Anyways, at this point we'd probably have to add to Gardiner to get something in return, why the hell would we do this? The return for letting him work through his struggles is far greater then what we'd get in a trade.

 

[samwitch]

Yet Carlyle is on record (via the assistant) stating that he doesn't want Gardiner going anywhere. He says you don't even think about moving a young D men with Gardiner's talent before he's played 200 games. I highly doubt this opinion has changed in 20 games.

Right..? I'm aware, but I'm talking about my opinion. I noted that you and Carlyle are not the only people who believe that young defensemen take time to develop. And Carlyle is not in charge of making trades anyhow haha.

Like someone mentioned, he plays scared. Rough him up a bit on the forecheck and then he panics and rushes the play and makes bad decisions the more he gets hit. We need some intensity and people that are hard to play against. Being hard to play against doesn't just mean that you are constantly hitting people and in their face. It can also mean that you play with some intensity. That you make smart plays rendering it difficult for the other players to anticipate what you are going to do with the puck.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

People fixated on the defense when a lot of the forwards spend their time floating at both blue lines

 

[samwitch]

People fixated on the defense when a lot of the forwards spend their time floating at both blue lines

Yes, but this is the Gardiner/Franson thread. That's a whole other story. Lots of times the forwards make it difficult for the D to make the "simple play" because they just aren't in position.

 

[Durrr]

Right..? I'm aware, but I'm talking about my opinion. I noted that you and Carlyle are not the only people who believe that young defensemen take time to develop. And Carlyle is not in charge of making trades anyhow haha.

Like someone mentioned, he plays scared. Rough him up a bit on the forecheck and then he panics and rushes the play and makes bad decisions the more he gets hit. We need some intensity and people that are hard to play against. Being hard to play against doesn't just mean that you are constantly hitting people and in their face. It can also mean that you play with some intensity. That you make smart plays rendering it difficult for the other players to anticipate what you are going to do with the puck.

I'm not saying he isn't struggling hard, he has 0 confidence right now. I'm saying let him play through it.

 

[Raging Bull]

Franson will be shipped out at the trade deadline (or he absolutely should be), Gardiner will be kept.

Why would they trade the better player? Franson, for all his physical shortcomings, still has a brain unlike Gardiner.