Did the Canucks Improve This Season Compared '17-'18?

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Bingo.

Pettersson parachuting in to help replace the Sedins was obviously huge, but without Markstrom we'd have been a ~70 point team again.

Markstrom was our MVP this year...Wouldnt there be a drop-off in a lot of teams if you took away their MVP..?..

 

[TruGr1t]

Markstrom was our MVP this year...Wouldnt there be a drop-off in a lot of teams if you took away their MVP..?..

That's not really pertinent to the discussion at hand, but anyway. The point is that we've spent an inordinate amount of cash over the past two years trying to make the playoffs, and the only really material change in the team is that our goalie unexpectedly decided to have an elite season when he was basically 30 years old.

The fact an unexpected event is the only reason we've done much better (and not even that much better .. the improvement was marginal) speaks to the poor strategic direction involved in most of the pro-level moves. Had management successfully tweaked the roster through trade and free agency you could argue that the team should have been a hell of a lot better given Markstrom's body of work.

Management's work at the pro level remains at best a non-event, and at worst a huge cap problem.

 

[Fatass]

Markstrom was our MVP this year...Wouldnt there be a drop-off in a lot of teams if you took away their MVP..?..

True, but having Marky play so well didn’t get us to the playoffs. It only made us mediocre, which is the worst place to finish. We need more elite young guys. Top five picks, right now, are important

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That's not really pertinent to the discussion at hand, but anyway. The point is that we've spent an inordinate amount of cash over the past two years trying to make the playoffs, and the only really material change in the team is that our goalie unexpectedly decided to have an elite season when he was basically 30 years old.

The fact an unexpected event is the only reason we've done much better (and not even that much better .. the improvement was marginal) speaks to the poor strategic direction involved in most of the pro-level moves. Had management successfully tweaked the roster through trade and free agency you could argue that the team should have been a hell of a lot better given Markstrom's body of work.

Management's work at the pro level remains at best a non-event, and at worst a huge cap problem.

We tried to make the playoffs this season ?...How?....By signing a 3rd liner ,and two 4th liners.. with an unproven top 6...no #1 goalie..and the same D as last year?...You cannot be serious.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

True, but having Marky play so well didn’t get us to the playoffs. It only made us mediocre, which is the worst place to finish. We need more elite young guys. Top five picks, right now, are important

It will be interesting to see if we get to pick in the top 5 in the near future...?..If the team pulls a Sabres,Oilers and the season goes pear shaped.. its a possibility..If our core players remain relatively healthy, and kick up a notch..I don't see it.

 

[TruGr1t]

We tried to make the playoffs this season ?...How?....By signing a 3rd liner ,and two 4th liners.. with an unproven top 6...no #1 goalie..and the same D as last year?...You cannot be serious.

By spending ~C$50 million in total committed salaries over the past two free agency periods? You forkin' out that kind of money to sit in the basement year after year?

Whatever they tell you they're trying to make the playoffs. Benning's job pretty much hinges on it at this point. In fact, the results this year may have essentially already cost him his job based on the President reports.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

By spending ~C$50 million in total committed salaries over the past two free agency periods? You forkin' out that kind of money to sit in the basement year after year?

Whatever they tell you they're trying to make the playoffs. Benning's job pretty much hinges on it at this point. In fact, the results this year may have essentially already cost him his job based on the President reports.

This was the first Sedin-less/Vanek year,...nobody even knew if EP would be able to play in the NHL this season..They were widely predicted to be one of the worst teams in the league.It was another development year...If the mandate from ownership was for JB to make the playoffs this season, he would be gone already.

 

[TruKnyte]

Benning always had the "get out of jail free card" when the Sedins retired last season. Next year he has none, either the team shows substantial improvement and makes the playoffs or he's fired.

To answer the original question though, you could argue the Canucks improved from last year in the sense that it's younger players forming the core and carrying the team as opposed to the older veterans. In terms of final results though no, there was no significant improvement from last season.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Benning always had the "get out of jail free card" when the Sedins retired last season. Next year he has none, either the team shows substantial improvement and makes the playoffs or he's fired.

To answer the original question though, you could argue the Canucks improved from last year in the sense that it's younger players forming the core and carrying the team as opposed to the older veterans. In terms of final results though no, there was no significant improvement from last season.

Fair comment.

 

[Svencouver]

Said this a million times: this team will only be a playoff round 1 maybe round 2 bubble if virtually nothing goes wrong. This season along with the previous few demonstrated that pretty well. Because our idiotic GM failed on so many levels to improve the team to the best of the team's potentials.

The teams you mentioned? You wanna compare the Canucks to them? Take a look at their trades, their signings, and their drafts, and tell me that again.

Hence "Teams like Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa, and Vegas we're expertly crafted with savvy signings and shrewd trades. I just don't see Benning making the moves necessary for us to be a truly deep and threatening team in terms of vying for a cup."

 

[valkynax]

Hence "Teams like Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa, and Vegas we're expertly crafted with savvy signings and shrewd trades. I just don't see Benning making the moves necessary for us to be a truly deep and threatening team in terms of vying for a cup."

Your original post suggests that this team is on the upswing and being mediocre is part of it, like Calgary Winnipeg...etc and they will eventually rise to top.

I'm saying this is a wildly inaccurate comparison, considering how the teams you listed had superior roster, coaching and management. Saying the little pitiful "improvement" this team achieved compare with last year is evidence of their path to true contender is pure delusion.

 

[ginner classic]

Overall, a very minor improvement vs last year
Better than expectations
Pettersson and Hughes basically offset brutal seasons by our other prospects.
Stecher was extremely good

I am more positive about our top end youngsters and livid about contracts, player development, pro scouting and the obscene lack of intellect and vision in the front office.

Nothing will really change until the leadership does.

 

[LordBacon]

If I think they didn’t suck as much as I thought they were going to, does that count as improvements?

 

[mossey3535]

I love how someone says this every season.

We had three years of WD so this isn't true for at least the last two seasons.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

And when you get right down to it, that's really all that matters.

The stats guys and analytics crowd will drill down on all the underlying data, to prove or disprove whether the Canucks were actually better or worse, and which way they're trending.

But the bottom line is that professional hockey is really an 'entertainment business'. And even the most hardened cynic would have to concede that the Canucks were a lot more fun to watch this season. And that's saying something, since they were shut out 10 times--more than any other team in the entire NHL.

But 'entertainment' and 'hope' are all they have to sell at the moment.

Can we substitue stats with facts or better yet objective truth?

 

[tantalum]

If I think they didn’t suck as much as I thought they were going to, does that count as improvements?

I think they did suck as much as I expected with the exception of one player...Markstrom. Who started the year off sucking but pretty much got them 90% of their points from Dec 1 on. Without his play the final 4+ months of the year (and hell throw in the last few Demko starts) this team is a 70ish point team again. Despite having the kids actually carry the mail offensively. When I see a veteran core fail so spectacularly I have a hard time saying they were better just because 4 or 5 players performed well.

 

[TruGr1t]

This was the first Sedin-less/Vanek year,...nobody even knew if EP would be able to play in the NHL this season..They were widely predicted to be one of the worst teams in the league.It was another development year...If the mandate from ownership was for JB to make the playoffs this season, he would be gone already.

So what was the mandate with all that cash? Get the lowest draft pick possible while also sucking?

Repeat: They have invested C$50M in total committed salaries to UFAs in the past two summers. I don't care what management's "mandate" was ... they were clearly trying to compete. And that cash went to some really crappy players if you want the list.

 

[Jyrki21]

This is such a fruitless mindset to have. You're literally going to be disappointed unless -

1) The Canucks are literally last (or at least bottom 3) in the league

or

2) They're in the playoffs. Hell, I bet if they scraped in people would still complain and whine that they're a first round exit. It's either Lottery or Contender for you.

The league completely incentivizes this, though. In the rest of the world, there is a lot more nuance and different things to watch for that avoid this (promotion/relegation, no draft, champions' league, season (real) champion, different cup competitions), but in North America not only does everything get whittled down to a single distinction ("Cup or bust"), and it's based on tiny 4-to-7 game sample sizes where luck/injuries are everything, but not winning it is seen as equal failure across the board no matter how close a team is... the idea, for example, that "the Canucks have never won a thing" when they've won literally everything except the 16th win in the playoffs is obviously idiotic. Combine that with rewarding failure through the draft, and you're pretty much asking for this dichotomy.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

The style that Travis Green wants to play is too fast for a lot of the Canucks, and they end up resorting to dump and chase or flip and hope.

The biggest thing the Canucks need to look at improving on next season is playing with speed while being smart about it. They can play dump and chase with speed but that ends up having the play coming back at them too much. They need players who can make quicker, smarter decisions with the puck.

Quinn Hughes will help the transition game this way, what impressed me more than his skating was how smart he was in moving the puck, he wasn't always forcing the play with his skating or long bomb passes. His smart easy passes open up the long bomb passes and skating lanes for him to make those exciting plays.

Elias Pettersson will benefit greatly if he's able to make his move (shoot, pass, deke) in the offensive zone (on the PP in-particular). He's almost too patient right now and is letting the defenders close down his options too much before he makes his move.

Brock Boeser needs to release his shot quicker, it got blocked way too much because he took 4-5 seconds to load up his shot.

Ben Hutton doesn't think the game quick enough to play Travis Green's system. He's done an amazing job this season trying to, but the Canucks need to trade him and bring in someone who can.

 

[I in the Eye]

I like the time scale, one year post-Sedin... Sounds a lot better than year 5.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The style that Travis Green wants to play is too fast for a lot of the Canucks, and they end up resorting to dump and chase or flip and hope.

The biggest thing the Canucks need to look at improving on next season is playing with speed while being smart about it. They can play dump and chase with speed but that ends up having the play coming back at them too much. They need players who can make quicker, smarter decisions with the puck.

Quinn Hughes will help the transition game this way, what impressed me more than his skating was how smart he was in moving the puck, he wasn't always forcing the play with his skating or long bomb passes. His smart easy passes open up the long bomb passes and skating lanes for him to make those exciting plays.

Elias Pettersson will benefit greatly if he's able to make his move (shoot, pass, deke) in the offensive zone (on the PP in-particular). He's almost too patient right now and is letting the defenders close down his options too much before he makes his move.

Brock Boeser needs to release his shot quicker, it got blocked way too much because he took 4-5 seconds to load up his shot.

Ben Hutton doesn't think the game quick enough to play Travis Green's system. He's done an amazing job this season trying to, but the Canucks need to trade him and bring in someone who can.

Good post..It was completely obvious how the impact of Hughes impacts the Canucks game, and I would agree with you in that he is not wasteful with the puck (unlike some other Canuck D who buckle under pressure)...I'm hopeful that Juolevi can crack the squad at some point next season, he too ,has a high quality outlet pass.

Last season, Boeser was not even thinking about loading up on his shot, it was just off his stick instantaneously...Considering his injury, and side effects (groin),it was great to see him return to the force that he was pre injury.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Good post..It was completely obvious how the impact of Hughes impacts the Canucks game, and I would agree with you in that he is not wasteful with the puck (unlike some other Canuck D who buckle under pressure)...I'm hopeful that Juolevi can crack the squad at some point next season, he too ,has a high quality outlet pass.

Last season, Boeser was not even thinking about loading up on his shot, it was just off his stick instantaneously...Considering his injury, and side effects (groin),it was great to see him return to the force that he was pre injury.

Boeser had a lot more time to shoot on the PP last season, the Sedins were so good at sucking the PKers away from Boeser.

Quicker decision making is going to be huge for the development of all the young players for the Canucks. It's not necessarily about skating fast (which does help) it's about playing fast, making smart quick decisions that moves the puck up ice faster and making smarter quicker decisions to open up scoring chances.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

I would say, yes, the team certainly improved upon the last season. I would call this year 1 or 2 of a 5-year rebuild (regardless of how the 'brass' sees it). I see it in more broad strokes though:

The good:
- The team improved despite losing 3/4 of it's top scorers last year and the Sedins (as we know) are so much more than just hockey stats. They left a gaping hole in the roster and the room and the team managed to move on and post a marginally better season. Not to mention Sutter was gone most of the year. That needs to be acknowledged. The year could have been an unmitigated disaster but it wasn't.

- The kids. Looks like we finally have a decent core to augment and build around. Horvat, EP, Boeser, Marky, Hughes, Stecher, Hutton, and even the likes of Virtanen, Gaudette who took steps forward.

- The entertainment value - night and day from last season. Last year was painful to watch, this year the Canucks were fun if you can just temper your expectations on what they should deliver.

- Benning actually made a couple of good deals. Gudbranson for Pearson looks great, and Schenn was an underrated pickup.

- I am as confident in the Canucks draft scouting as I've ever been, in my 30+ years of fan engagement. Will they f*** up again? Sure they will. But the scouting doesn't suck like it used to.


The bad:
- Long ways to go and lack of depth predictably got exposed again. But this is not uncommon for rebuilding teams.
- Lack of management vision or ability to execute. Another disappointing trade deadline for our UFAs like Edler.
- Meddlesome ownership
- Bad players on bad contracts looking worse than ever.


I've been a Canucks fan long enough to enjoy the good stuff without getting too upset over management/ownership. After all, I am here to be entertained. And the good stuff is really the fun in watching the kids grow. We don't know if this will be a Cup contending core but there is promising talent here and it will be fun to watch the kids develop.

 

[Svencouver]

Your original post suggests that this team is on the upswing and being mediocre is part of it, like Calgary Winnipeg...etc and they will eventually rise to top.

I'm saying this is a wildly inaccurate comparison, considering how the teams you listed had superior roster, coaching and management. Saying the little pitiful "improvement" this team achieved compare with last year is evidence of their path to true contender is pure delusion.

I do think we're on the upswing but our ceiling without proper management is a middling playoff team without the ability to truly compete. Being mediocre is indeed a part of the path to contending, but you can't elevate yourself above it without good moves and FA signings to put your core over the top, as WPG and CGY did.

 

[Svencouver]

The league completely incentivizes this, though. In the rest of the world, there is a lot more nuance and different things to watch for that avoid this (promotion/relegation, no draft, champions' league, season (real) champion, different cup competitions), but in North America not only does everything get whittled down to a single distinction ("Cup or bust"), and it's based on tiny 4-to-7 game sample sizes where luck/injuries are everything, but not winning it is seen as equal failure across the board no matter how close a team is... the idea, for example, that "the Canucks have never won a thing" when they've won literally everything except the 16th win in the playoffs is obviously idiotic. Combine that with rewarding failure through the draft, and you're pretty much asking for this dichotomy.

I totally agree, but that's a problem with the league, though, not the Canucks. And at the same time, very few teams truly adhere to this dichotomy without some transition between the two.