Did Mario hold back the Pens?

[#66]

Good for you Cas! I've always felt that way and I'll bring it even further....

Mario keeps the Pens stars coddled and the Pens from being coached like every other team. He wants superstar, freelance hockey and 6-5 scored every night.

I hate what the NHL has become but that kind of hockey will never be back. Stop forcing it.

 

[Michael8771*]

The biggest thing that held the penguins back from 2010 on was Dan Bylsma. Period, end of discussion.

And Mario had the power to remove DB.

The only thing Lemieux did wrong was NOT meddal with the GM and let Shero Scuderi up the team. He also should have fired him last August.

Agreed, he let poor decisions go on a couple years too many. And now we are playing catch up. At minimum DB should have been let go after the Flyer debacle of 2012. And what happened since, Db was given an extension by RS. That should never have happened.

Mario Lemieux is also why we still have a hockey team instead of Kansas City.

No argument there.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Agreed, he let poor decisions go on a couple years too many. And now we are playing catch up. At minimum DB should have been let go after the Flyer debacle of 2012. And what happened since, Db was given an extension by RS. That should never have happened.

I have a hard time agreeing with this. Well, not that Disco should have been fired, but that Mario is responsible for him not being fired. Up to this point, Shero had deserved Mario's trust. I do not want Mario stepping on the toes of the GM. If he had stepped in and fired Disco, I think he would have had to fire Shero too. Either Mario trusted Shero enough to let him do his job or he didn't. It was up to Shero to get rid of Disco. Should Shero have been fired after the Flyers debacle? I don't think many people felt that way at the time. I know I didn't.

Now, when he walked in after the Boston series with the plan to extend Disco? Ok, now it might have been time for Mario to step in.

 

[Michael8771*]

I have a hard time agreeing with this. Well, not that Disco should have been fired, but that Mario is responsible for him not being fired. Up to this point, Shero had deserved Mario's trust. I do not want Mario stepping on the toes of the GM. If he had stepped in and fired Disco, I think he would have had to fire Shero too. Either Mario trusted Shero enough to let him do his job or he didn't. It was up to Shero to get rid of Disco. Should Shero have been fired after the Flyers debacle? I don't think many people felt that way at the time. I know I didn't.

Now, when he walked in after the Boston series with the plan to extend Disco? Ok, now it might have been time for Mario to step in.

Hearing JR talk at the draft, it appeared as though he consulted Mario prior to finalizing the Neal deal. I see nothing wrong with that. Mario ISN'T a typical owner, he was an elite talent who can offer a unique perspective. When RS was in the process of re upping DB, Mario should have vetoed it. But he let it go on. That's on him as he is afterall the owner. I think with JR here Mario will make sure he's more heavily involved, and I see nothing wrong with that. However, He should have asserted himself even more a couple years back. The mess we're cleaning up from currently is partially his fault, and trust me he knows it.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I completely disagree. I am fine with a new GM consulting the owner during his first off-season while making a shake-up trade. But once the GM is settled in, it should be his show. If Mario wants to run the team at that level, he should name himself GM.

 

[Michael8771*]

I completely disagree. I am fine with a new GM consulting the owner during his first off-season while making a shake-up trade. But once the GM is settled in, it should be his show. If Mario wants to run the team at that level, he should name himself GM.

There are certain day in day out responsibilities that GM's can deal with that owners don't have to. Regarding crucial decisions however there's nothing wrong with Mario getting involved. Again he's not a ''typical'' owner, he has a first hand knowledge of the game.

I own a business, but I leave two very capable people in charge 90% of the time. You know, with regular everyday happenings. However when something significant transpires that's either unexpected or crucial for the business to succeed, I definitely take the reigns back. Since I started the Business I understand all its inner workings, therefore my input is based on first hand experience. Same with Mario, he understands the business. Or at this point should. Conversely there are people who own businesses that have very little actual knowledge on such matters. In those cases most of those decisions should be left to a GM, supervisor, VP OR whatever title they hold.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There are certain day in day out responsibilities that GM's can deal with that owners don't have to. Regarding crucial decisions however there's nothing wrong with Mario getting involved. Again he's not a ''typical'' owner, he has a first hand knowledge of the game.

I own a business, but I leave two very capable people in charge 90% of the time. You know, with regular everyday happenings. However when something significant transpires that's either unexpected or crucial for the business to succeed, I definitely take the reigns back. Since I started the Business I understand all its inner workings, therefore my input is based on first hand experience. Same with Mario, he understands the business first hand. Or at this point should. Conversely there are people who own businesses that have very little actual knowledge on such matters. In those cases most of those decisions should be left to a GM, supervisor, VP OR whatever title they hold.

Yes, you understand your business. Mario is a great hockey player, but he has absolutely no experience with building a hockey team. Looking at his history, his dealings with coaches could easily be used as a negative against him in the GM type role. Mario knows the game. I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that he knows the business better than the GMs he hires.

 

[Michael8771*]

Yes, you understand your business. Mario is a great hockey player, but he has absolutely no experience with building a hockey team. Looking at his history, his dealings with coaches could easily be used as a negative against him in the GM type role. Mario knows the game. I don't think there's much evidence to suggest that he knows the business better than the GMs he hires.

When Mario had to buy the team out of bankruptcy, and basically appease every creditor, he got a good education as how to run the business side of things. Of course having a Ron Burkle in the fray doesn't hurt. So the business aspect of things is sound. Where Mario IMO sets himself a part from other owners is he understands the players perspective. He also learned as a player what worked and what didn't. We'll have to agree to disagree (surprise surprise) but I view these experiences as a positive. And regarding personnel decisions I think he's a pretty sharp guy. I just think he should have more say in such matters.

 

[Ogrezilla]

When Mario had to buy the team out of bankruptcy, and basically appease every creditor, he got a good education as how to run the business side of things. Of course having a Ron Burkle in the fray doesn't hurt. So the business aspect of things is sound. Where Mario IMO sets himself a part from other owners is he understands the players perspective. He also learned as a player what worked and what didn't. We'll have to agree to disagree (surprise surprise) but I view these experiences as a positive. And regarding personnel decisions I think he's a pretty sharp guy. I just think he should have more say in such matters.

I can't view running Bowman out of town as a positive.

 

[Michael8771*]

I can't view running Bowman out of town as a positive.

Are you 100% sure that's what happened?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Are you 100% sure that's what happened?

I have never heard a single person question it in my entire life. Never once.

Mario wants a coach like Bylsma. Not the part where he's a terrible coach, but he wants a loose, player friendly environment. He always has. Even if he was in on the decisions with Disco (and word is that he was after Boston right?) I think he would have kept him around. Hopefully the addition of Tocchet is a sign that this is changing.

 

[Michael8771*]

I have never heard a single person question it in my entire life. Never once.

Mario wants a coach like Bylsma. Not the part where he's a terrible coach, but he wants a loose, player friendly environment. He always has. Even if he was in on the decisions with Disco (and word is that he was after Boston right?) I think he would have kept him around. Hopefully the addition of Tocchet is a sign that this is changing.

I heard that Bowman was commuting a lot from Buffalo and that took a toll on all parties involved. DET made it clear to him that that scenario had to end. At least that's what I was told from people who know more about it than I.

As far as Mario letting DB stay beyond 2012, I agree that was dumb, and that's an area in which he's to blame.

 

[Ogrezilla]

and we're right back where we started Shero should have fired Disco years ago.

 

[Michael8771*]

and we're right back where we started Shero should have fired Disco years ago.

Or, if RS wasn't going to do it, Mario should have given both of them walking papers.

I have no problem with DB and RS until 2012, in 2011 both Sid and Geno were out for the playoffs, so it's hard to throw DB under the bus there, but the Flyer fiasco? Yeah, that was the time to fire him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Or, if RS wasn't going to do it, Mario should have given both of them walking papers.

I have no problem with DB and RS until 2012, in 2011 both Sid and Geno were out for the playoffs, so it's hard to throw DB under the bus there, but the Flyer fiasco? Yeah, that was the time to fire him.

I said that in my first response I think Its a tough sell to fire Shero at that point though.

 

[Michael8771*]

I said that in my first response I think Its a tough sell to fire Shero at that point though.

And I'd agree, but Mario should have insisted that DB be let go. And if not then RS go also.

 

[Ugene Magic]

DB should have never been alowed to change a winning system up, and it was fools gold re-signing him just because he tweaked a system that wasn't his. Unleashing the hounds because one has been afforded them and the other fired for lack of them is entirely what's so ironic.

I don't blame, MT.

I blame Shero for this one. He orcastrated and overseen every single move here. I also give some of the blame on the players themselves.

Where are they all at now? Do they like the position they reside in now?

It's unfortunate what happen to a team destine to go on to possibly multiple championships.

What happen to the Pens after Bowman left? Yes. they were very good, but never saw the finals again until the Crosby era started. I hope for everyones sake we are not going to have a repeat of those fortunes. To lose another decade of stars primes is not what I look forward, too. But lets be real, it's a possibility, they are already half way there. *shudder*

 

[Darth Vitale]

Sorry guys but you've sort of proven my point here. Nothing but circular debates that have already been done 100x the last couple years. Closing. Let's move forward.