Did Karlsson and Subban shed their labels as "defensive liabilities"?

[Montreal Shadow]

I think so. Karlsson has been nothing short of terrific at both ends of the ice and is the best defenseman if not the best player in the playoffs so far.

Subban has dominated defensively with his partner and has been primarily used in a shutdown role and has been very successful with Ekholm at shutting down the opposition.

Do some people still believe these two are defensive liabilities?

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[LPHabsFan]

It's going to be a stupid conversation regardless of the following but until people start talking about what the criticisms towards Subban actually were in reference to his defensive liabilities then it's going to be an even stupider conversation than it should be.

 

[Canucks LB]

subban has never been a defensive liability lmao

 

[ESH]

Karlsson is probably my favourite player in the league and I watch a decent amount of Senators games. Honestly though, I think Karlsson is starting to get a bit overrated in terms of his defensive play by some people. He still gets outmuscled a lot along the boards and around the net, and while he has good positioning (for the most part) and a quick stick, he is by no means a shutdown defender.

I still think he's the best defenseman in the league though.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Karlsson is probably my favourite player in the league and I watch a decent amount of Senators games. Honestly though, I think Karlsson is starting to get a bit overrated in terms of his defensive play by some people. He still gets outmuscled a lot along the boards and around the net, and while he has good positioning (for the most part) and a quick stick, he is by no means a shutdown defender.

I still think he's the best defenseman in the league though.

Nobody said he was the best defensive player or a shutdown defensman. He's just not a defensive liability and actually pretty good in his own end.

 

[Sureves]

I think so. Karlsson has been nothing short of terrific at both ends of the ice and is the best defenseman if not the best player in the playoffs so far.

Subban has dominated defensively with his partner and has been primarily used in a shutdown role and has been very successful with Ekholm at shutting down the opposition.

Do some people still believe these two are defensive liabilities?

Yes, and not to derail, but it's important to note that Karlsson was much better in the regular season than the player you are seeing now.

Not a bit better, a lot better.

But yes, I never really thought Subban was bad defensively in the first place, and I think my position on Karlsson has always been well-known.

They are both excellent players at both ends of the ice.

 

[The Waffler]

Anyone with a brain knew they weren't liabilities.

 

[Seb]

Anyone with a brain knew they weren't liabilities.

Implying most of HFBoards posters have no brain

 

[Gunnersaurus Rex]

They were defensive liabilities ??

 

[Grandrift145]

It's going to be a stupid conversation regardless of the following but until people start talking about what the criticisms towards Subban actually were in reference to his defensive liabilities then it's going to be an even stupider conversation than it should be.

What are the circumstances?

I've never bought into the defensive liability narrative but I can admit PK tries and makes a lot of risky plays on the ice.

I think there is a bias against puck carrying Dman that are tasked to create but i think that's been slowly fading. These have the puck so much that it seems like they make more mistakes

 

[Evincar]

Implying most of HFBoards posters have no brain

Nothing wrong with that.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Anyone with a brain knew they weren't liabilities.

100% this.

They were never liabilities on the ice.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Subban came into the league as a rookie in the Habs' Cinderella run to help shut down Crosby in 2010.

He was never, ever a defensive liability no matter how much the Montreal media -- or even 95% of the media in general would like to spin it as such.

And just because Karlsson is/was so dominant offensively it doesn't mean he was a liability either.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

Subban is a good defensive player, it's just that he is prone to make the stupid mistake from time to time. In Montreal, he did this more frequently but now that he's in Nashville and understands his role as a shut down guy, these mistakes are becoming increasingly rare. An example of this would have been that 360 no-look behind the back pass he attempted the other night that was picked off

Karlsson has improved on the defensive end for sure and is by no means a liability, but he is prone to playing loose at the front of the net. With his body type, he is built better for being the offensive workhouse that has gallons of endurance on reserve to rush up the ice. But he sacrifices pure strength and often leaves guys wide open at the front of the net as he tries to block the pass or shot. This works oftentimes but when it doesn't it can be fatal. An example of this would be the overtime goal in game 5 of the boston series.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Defence

Both are now playing for coaches who structured defences to suit their strengths and smooth over the shortcomings.

 

[SPF6ty9]

Will be interesting to see if their post season success will sway the "old school" defensive defenseman crowd. Hopefully this just goes to show that having a skill puck moving / puck possessing defenseman is one of the most important assets in the league.

 

[Fugazy]

When were they considered to be defensive liabilities?

 

[Iceman]

The very best players generally always have the ability to adapt.

 

[lomiller1]

Neither are particularly strong defensive players, and I don't think that perception or reality has changed. Neither are anywhere close to a liability to have on the ice, although Subban is overpaid given that he's Nashville's 3rd or 4th best D-man.

 

[Montreal Shadow]

Neither are particularly strong defensive players, and I don't think that perception or reality has changed. Neither are anywhere close to a liability to have on the ice, although Subban is overpaid given that he's Nashville's 3rd or 4th best D-man.

Somebody doesn't watch the games it seems.

 

[lomiller1]

Somebody doesn't watch the games it seems.

Pro-tip. When you watch a game, ignore the stories being spun by the talking heads and don’t stare at the puck the whole time. Otherwise you end up like this guy and watch everything and see nothing.

 

[Channelcat]

Karlsson is still a huge cluster**** along the boards. I really don't think he's cleaned up his defensive work much.

 

[authentic]

Karlsson's perceived huge jump in defensive play this year is a bit misleading. He's been a decent defensive player for a while now, and is marginally better in that regard than he has been for the previous several seasons, and he was never below average there except maybe his first few seasons. He's still not among the best but definitely well above average. Overall he's the best defenseman and arguably player in the world, his offensive skill and control of the play is Crosby and McDavid level.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Karlsson is still a huge cluster**** along the boards. I really don't think he's cleaned up his defensive work much.

Karlsson imo is actually dominant along the boards. Clearing the front of the net is more of a problem.

 

[Agent Zub]

Karlsson is still a huge cluster**** along the boards. I really don't think he's cleaned up his defensive work much.

wtf?

Karlsson is great on the boards. He has insane compete and stickwork and usually emerges with the puck on his stick ready to start the breakout.

you could have said he is weak tying up players in front of the net and you would have a point, but stop making things up.