GDT: Devils vs. Penguins - 7:00PM MSG+2

[MadDevil]

I don't understand this retort...you could say the same thing about the players. The players were good enough for 15 games but then suddenly they are the worst defenders in the league?

They were okay early because the transition game was working and the forwards were providing support. Since then the support has gone to hell, there are massive gaps in coverage, and the goaltending hasn't kept us in games.

 

[Triumph]

I mean Parenteau you're right but Camm's a legit top six player and Zajac's been one this season, saying they don't belong on a 5-on-3 is a LITTLE strong. Any top six forward belongs on a five-on-three.

No, they don't. Zajac does not belong on a 5 on 3. Cammalleri's been a mediocre PP player since he's gotten here. I understand that having rotten depth for years and years has changed what Devils fans think about how a team should be organized, but no, these people don't belong there.

 

[guitarguyvic]

They were okay early because the transition game was working and the forwards were providing support. Since then the support has gone to hell, there are massive gaps in coverage, and the goaltending hasn't kept us in games.

Right...and that could be as much about the coaching (goaltending aside) as it is about the players. Point is that defending the coach using the excuse that the team played well for x games is no different than defending the players using the same excuse. The truth of the matter as that something went amiss after those first 15; whether it's the players or the coach is tough to say but chances are it's a little of both (especially when the team is playing his horrendously) and you can't just dismiss the coach's culpability because the team happened to play decently for a stretch prior.

 

[guitarguyvic]

To me, the red flag on coaching is when multiple players who were previously playing well start "slumping" and playing like dog **** all at the same time. When it's not just your plug role players that are stinking it up but it's also your two best players then it seems logical to question the strategy on the ice and/or the culture of the team.

 

[Bleedred]

Hynes had the team playing good defense last year, despite the fact they could barely generate any scoring chances. They were still good defensively.

These days, we're not even respectable looking defensively. We get outshot by a HUGE margin against almost everyone, including mediocre possession teams that aren't known for outshooting their opponent.

If a team can't play good defense, I think it's fair to blame coaching and team system for a good deal of that.

We get our **** pushed in almost every night, with the exception of a few games. Frickin all the way back to the San Jose game. The first Nashville game, which poor goaltending from Rinne helped us get back into the game. The Detroit game, both Pittsburgh games. We actually looked even in the most recent Chicago game, actually both Chicago games. The Montreal game was one of the worst games I've ever seen a Devils team play, from a puck possession standpoint. Montreal is a mediocre team and they outshoot us 49-21.

The only games we've looked competitive in since that Sharks game was the Toronto game, Vancouver, the Flyers game the other night, the Blackhawks game and the Ottawa game and the last Rangers game.

 

[Zippy316]

No, they don't. Zajac does not belong on a 5 on 3. Cammalleri's been a mediocre PP player since he's gotten here. I understand that having rotten depth for years and years has changed what Devils fans think about how a team should be organized, but no, these people don't belong there.

Zajac is usually their for the face off and the fact that he is so good at winning puck battles and maintaining possession. We don't have a player like that.

Besides, he is usually the net front presence which isn't really a big deal as far as skill goes.

 

[Zippy316]

They don't have a proper plan. The Xs and Os are bad. Hynes is not a good NHL coach.

His PP scheme is painfully predictable. It doesn't take much coaching to be able to shut it down.

The PP managed to work for the entire year last year with Jacob Josefson manning the set-up role, I'm not sold on him being the problem. We had a great PP and great PK last year.

Last year, he had a team full of veterans who knew how to at least play a responsible game. They sucked offensively, but they didn't cost you defensively. This year, you took away all of those veterans and added kids and young players. The veterans you did add (Quincey, Parenteau) have massive flaws to their games that can easily be exposed.

I'd like to see what Hynes can do with a competent roster with more mature players and one that can fit his game, then decide what to do with him.

 

[NJDevs26]

They were okay early because the transition game was working and the forwards were providing support. Since then the support has gone to hell, there are massive gaps in coverage, and the goaltending hasn't kept us in games.

No they were okay early cause the goaltending was great, really the defense has been an issue all year, it's just looked far worse since the goaltending's short-circuted.

To me, the red flag on coaching is when multiple players who were previously playing well start "slumping" and playing like dog **** all at the same time. When it's not just your plug role players that are stinking it up but it's also your two best players then it seems logical to question the strategy on the ice and/or the culture of the team.

That's my issue with Hynes too. A great coach gets the most out of all his players. A competent coach at least gets normal production out of his players. But basically everyone even Hall now is blowing up. People can cry talent, talent, talent but when the talent you have isn't even living up to expectations that usually goes back to coaching either being incompetent or not getting the team to play for him.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Hynes had the team playing good defense last year, despite the fact they could barely generate any scoring chances. They were still good defensively.

These days, we're not even respectable looking defensively. We get outshot by a HUGE margin against almost everyone, including mediocre possession teams that aren't known for outshooting their opponent.

If a team can't play good defense, I think it's fair to blame coaching and team system for a good deal of that.

We get our **** pushed in almost every night, with the exception of a few games. Frickin all the way back to the San Jose game. The first Nashville game, which poor goaltending from Rinne helped us get back into the game. The Detroit game, both Pittsburgh games. We actually looked even in the most recent Chicago game, actually both Chicago games. The Montreal game was one of the worst games I've ever seen a Devils team play, from a puck possession standpoint. Montreal is a mediocre team and they outshoot us 49-21.

The only games we've looked competitive in since that Sharks game was the Toronto game, Vancouver, the Flyers game the other night, the Blackhawks game and the Ottawa game and the last Rangers game.

Looking like those crazy zone starts where he leaned on Greene and Lars for everything covered up Hynes' warts. Plus the D never joined the rush or got involved offensively last year. An above average year from Schlemko helped

Combine Cory being stellar. Also end of February the D fell the **** apart. They dropped from tied for 1st in goals against to 8th in a hurry.

 

[Triumph]

Miles Wood is a drain on this team, and Pavel Zacha has also been a drain. Throw in how poor Lovejoy has been and now with Auvitu gone, there's actually more territorial drains on the team playing big minutes than there were last year. Josefson didn't score any goals but he sure helped prevent shots against.

It is also completely worth noting that this Pittsburgh game was the Devils 5th game in 8 days. But hey, draw all the Hynes conclusions you want. I like that Shero actually implicitly addressed the fans when he mentioned that the Devils have a history of firing coaches - they are used to coaches being thrown overboard here. That's not how things are going to happen now.

 

[Bleedred]

Looking like those crazy zone starts where he leaned on Greene and Lars for everything covered up Hynes' warts. Plus the D never joined the rush or got involved offensively last year. An above average year from Schlemko helped

Combine Cory being stellar. Also end of February the D fell the **** apart. They dropped from tied for 1st in goals against to 8th in a hurry.

I think part of the reason we dropped in goals against was Kinkaid was awful while Cory was injured. God forbid if Wedgewood didn't do his best Hasek impersonation for 3 or 4 games there.

Although the team looked way worse defensively after the deadline last year. The Helgeson-Warsofsky pairing was also a disaster.

Miles Wood is a drain on this team, and Pavel Zacha has also been a drain. Throw in how poor Lovejoy has been and now with Auvitu gone, there's actually more territorial drains on the team playing big minutes than there were last year. Josefson didn't score any goals but he sure helped prevent shots against.

It is also completely worth noting that this Pittsburgh game was the Devils 5th game in 8 days. But hey, draw all the Hynes conclusions you want. I like that Shero actually implicitly addressed the fans when he mentioned that the Devils have a history of firing coaches - they are used to coaches being thrown overboard here. That's not how things are going to happen now.

And who kept scratching Auvitu before he was sent to the AHL? And who scratched good possession players like Parenteau and Bennett last weekend? And then we play that guy (Helgeson) that looks worse than a 50 year old beer leaguer when he's on NHL ice?

Hynes hasn't even shown he puts much into possession numbers with some of these mind boggling moves.

 

[Emperoreddy]

We werent really a good possession team last year either and couldn't barely get to 25 shots a game.

We weren't good last year. We did work harder, but we weren't good.

 

[Bleedred]

We werent really a good possession team last year either and couldn't barely get to 25 shots a game.

We weren't good last year. We did work harder, but we weren't good.

I think Hynes did a respectable job last year at getting the team to play good defensively.

But this year, our shots for are barely up and our shots against are way worse. Our shots against is probably a little higher than last year as of right now, but how much of that is because we were top 4 in the league in shots for over the first 12 or 13 games of the season? I remember us having a positive shot differential 12 games into the season and having 31+ shots for.

We're seeing a lot of last year's 20-24 shot games recently and the shots against are on par with some of last year's worst games of the season. They weren't the norm last year but they are this year.

 

[Triumph]

And who kept scratching Auvitu before he was sent to the AHL? And who scratched good possession players like Parenteau and Bennett last weekend? And then we play that guy (Helgeson) that looks worse than a 50 year old beer leaguer when he's on NHL ice?

Hynes hasn't even shown he puts much into possession numbers with some of these mind boggling moves.

They're not mind boggling moves. The season is very long and guys don't always play their best game. Especially someone like Auvitu. I like Auvitu a lot and expect he will be back up here, but he clearly started to play worse as the season went on. The NHL schedule can be challenging.

Do I like bringing up Helgeson and playing him? No, I don't. I don't like that NHL teams' answer to poor play is often to use more bad players. But in the scope of things, I don't think it's a big deal. There isn't a coach out there that dresses an optimal lineup in my view. So evaluating coaches strictly on that basis isn't really going to go anywhere with me.

 

[Bleedred]

They're not mind boggling moves. The season is very long and guys don't always play their best game. Especially someone like Auvitu. I like Auvitu a lot and expect he will be back up here, but he clearly started to play worse as the season went on. The NHL schedule can be challenging.

Do I like bringing up Helgeson and playing him? No, I don't. I don't like that NHL teams' answer to poor play is often to use more bad players. But in the scope of things, I don't think it's a big deal. There isn't a coach out there that dresses an optimal lineup in my view. So evaluating coaches strictly on that basis isn't really going to go anywhere with me.

The mind boggling move was scratching Parenteau and Bennett that game.

I'm still not for firing him and he may not be a bad coach, but I don't see anything that confirms that he's anything special either.

I think he's just a coach.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Auvitu is basically a rookie. Asking him to properly handle the NHL workload out of the gate was a tall order.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think Hynes did a respectable job last year at getting the team to play good defensively.

But this year, our shots for are barely up and our shots against are way worse. Our shots against is probably a little higher than last year as of right now, but how much of that is because we were top 4 in the league in shots for over the first 12 or 13 games of the season? I remember us having a positive shot differential 12 games into the season and having 31+ shots for.

We're seeing a lot of last year's 20-24 shot games recently and the shots against are on par with some of last year's worst games of the season. They weren't the norm last year but they are this year.

They played an extremely unbalanced game last year. Not that hard to "play defense" when everyone is playing ultra conservator dump and chase on top of getting top 3 goaltending.

Last year was a bottom 5 team proped up by Cory and an unsustainable PP.

 

[Bleedred]

They played an extremely unbalanced game last year. Not that hard to "play defense" when everyone is playing ultra conservator dump and chase on top of getting top 3 goaltending.

Last year was a bottom 5 team proped up by Cory and an unsustainable PP.

Which is why I don't understand how we haven't went back to looking like any semblance of last year's system. The only games in the last month that were reminiscent were the Flyers and Canucks games. Those looked like games from last year. The last Rangers and Sens games weren't bad games by any means, we were even against Ottawa and better against the Rags. But we really don't look that good for the most part. I'd be fine with allowing 30 shots if we were getting anything close to 30 shots ourselves.

We trail for most of the games and still can't even push play when down by multiple goals, that's pretty pathetic if you ask me. In a lot of these one sided games, a good period on our part is getting outshot 17-14 like Friday night's 2nd period.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Which is why I don't understand how we haven't went back to looking like any semblance of last year's system. The only games in the last month that were reminiscent were the Flyers and Canucks games. Those looked like games from last year. The last Rangers and Sens games weren't bad games by any means, we were even against Ottawa and better against the Rags. But we really don't look that good for the most part. I'd be fine with allowing 30 shots if we were getting anything close to 30 shots ourselves.

We trail for most of the games and still can't even push play when down by multiple goals, that's pretty pathetic if you ask me. In a lot of these one sided games, a good period on our part is getting outshot 17-14 like Friday night's 2nd period.

Because we weren't winning with last year's play.

Also we don't have a pair like Greene-Lars to anchor with 80% of defensive zone starts.

 

[Zippy316]

Because we weren't winning with last year's play.

Also we don't have a pair like Greene-Lars to anchor with 80% of defensive zone starts.

There is not a single defensive pair Hynes can rely defensively except maybe Greene-Lovejoy.

There is some nice pieces back there, but they're all playing well over their capabilities.

 

[Emperoreddy]

There is not a single defensive pair Hynes can rely defensively except maybe Greene-Lovejoy.

There is some nice pieces back there, but they're all playing well over their capabilities.

Even if he did, do you want them getting the crazy zone starts that Greene-Lars was getting?

You have to admit those were some really curious numbers and usage.

 

[Zippy316]

Even if he did, do you want them getting the crazy zone starts that Greene-Lars was getting?

You have to admit those were some really curious numbers and usage.

That usage was out of necessity, which was the biggest problem.

Now you replaced Larsson with Lovejoy who doesn't have remotely close to Larsson's breakout pass/ability. You replaced a mobile and versatile guy in Schlemko with Quincey who is painfully slow even if he has his wily veteran plays at times.

The defense isn't set up in a position to succeed right now. Opening it up exposes these guys defensively and playing like last years team likely hems us in the zone.

 

[Bleedred]

Schlemko has been a healthy scratch the last two games for the Sharks, which is one of the most surprising scratches I can remember. It's not even like he was playing poorly and he is signed for long term. If he's a healthy scratch, that ****ing useless bum Boedker and his 6 points should be a healthy scratch for a game or two.

I'd have to think there is something more to this than your regular healthy scratch. Even the Sharks beat writers can't seem to figure it out. And when Schlemko was interviewed after being a healthy scratch for just one game, he looked and sounded very distraught and emotional about it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

That usage was out of necessity, which was the biggest problem.

Now you replaced Larsson with Lovejoy who doesn't have remotely close to Larsson's breakout pass/ability. You replaced a mobile and versatile guy in Schlemko with Quincey who is painfully slow even if he has his wily veteran plays at times.

The defense isn't set up in a position to succeed right now. Opening it up exposes these guys defensively and playing like last years team likely hems us in the zone.

Pete and Hydra had basically the same D, hell it might of been worse, and they didn't drive one pairing into the ground.

 

[MadDevil]

Pete and Hydra had basically the same D, hell it might of been worse, and they didn't drive one pairing into the ground.

Who else were we going to lean on last year? Moore? Schlemko? That pairing was going to draw the tough minutes no matter what. And they were damn good at what they did, so why are we complaining about it now?