GDT: Devils vs. Kings 12:30PM MSG+

[Bleedred]

For the most part, I like how Hynes handles young players, but playing Gelinas over Severson (since it seems Severson really was healthy) for three straight games was lunacy. Gelinas should not play another NHL game for the Devils unless there are injuries. He actively hurts the team's chances of winning. What a train wreck he is.

The weirdest thing for me is the two worst decisions I've seen him (or his staff) make all season was playing MAG on the power play, like he was Kovalchuk. Dude was on the power play for almost 2 full minutes when we had that 5 on 3 one game. And got way too much power play time. This was back when Gelinas wasn't even good enough to be in the lineup or on the power play.

Then 3 weeks later, he's playing over a healthy Severson. And I understood it once, but Gelinas was responsible for or helped cause a goal against in all those games he was playing over Severson in.

So the MAG overusage and the Gelinas usage over Severson for 3 games, those are the only two problems I've really had with him so far.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The weirdest thing for me is the two worst decisions I've seen him (or his staff) make all season was playing MAG on the power play, like he was Kovalchuk. Dude was on the power play for almost 2 full minutes when we had that 5 on 3 one game. And got way too much power play time. This was back when Gelinas wasn't even good enough to be in the lineup or on the power play.

Then 3 weeks later, he's playing over a healthy Severson. And I understood it once, but Gelinas was responsible for or helped cause a goal against in all those games he was playing over Severson in.

So the MAG overusage and the Gelinas usage over Severson for 3 games, those are the only two problems I've really had with him so far.

Yeah, those two together really don't make much sense, because if you'd rather play MAG than Gelinas, how the heck would you not prefer Severson over Gelinas?

Overall, though, Hynes has been good, but those two together are head-scratchers for sure.

 

[Zippy316]

For the most part, I like how Hynes handles young players, but playing Gelinas over Severson (since it seems Severson really was healthy) for three straight games was lunacy. Gelinas should not play another NHL game for the Devils unless there are injuries. He actively hurts the team's chances of winning. What a train wreck he is.

I don't blame the staff for that. Severson definitely needed to take a step back.

Should he have been playing over Gelinas? Probably. Would it have been helpful for him to continue playing? I doubt it. Severson needed a bit of time to regroup and then go back at it. He wasn't particularly bad in any of the games, but he was definitely fighting the puck for a while and he looked off.

Gelinas was showing a bit of improvement over his stretch even with the few gaffes he had each game. I think the staff was trying to give him a bit of confidence. Give him a few games and hopefully he can play his way out of making those bad decisions. He kept doing it and he hasn't seen the ice since.

The weirdest thing for me is the two worst decisions I've seen him (or his staff) make all season was playing MAG on the power play, like he was Kovalchuk. Dude was on the power play for almost 2 full minutes when we had that 5 on 3 one game. And got way too much power play time. This was back when Gelinas wasn't even good enough to be in the lineup or on the power play.

Then 3 weeks later, he's playing over a healthy Severson. And I understood it once, but Gelinas was responsible for or helped cause a goal against in all those games he was playing over Severson in.

So the MAG overusage and the Gelinas usage over Severson for 3 games, those are the only two problems I've really had with him so far.

Again, with MAG, it was understandable. You bring up a guy with a good offensive skill set, you might as well try to use it to see if he can be productive. Like I said earlier, this staff gives their young players a chance. They recognize their strengths and try to take advantage of them. MAG is a skilled offensive defenseman so use him in a role where he can succeed.

They might have played him a little too long, but like with Gelinas, they wanted to see if he can improve his play with extended time. I would rather that then DeBoer's method where after one mistake a young guy is yanked from any meaningful role. Just like with Gelinas, he didn't improve, and now he's in Albany.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I think for MAG it was just a matter of seeing what you've got. Despite what some posters may think, you can't evaluate a player's usefulness after one or two shifts. We needed PP help and he's noted for being a PP player. Hynes made sure to give him every opportunity to exhaust - we now know conclusively MAG sucks and that could probably be used in court.

I don't know what's up with Gelinas and Severson though. Severson has certainly had a few gaffes this year but Gelinas turns sucking into an art form. A healthy scratch or two for Severson would have been justified but there was an excessive amount of that.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Most Severson should've been scratched was one game. Three was overkill. One would've been enough of a wakeup call or step back. We really aren't a team that should be icing an inferior lineup just to send messages when in the playoff hunt. Severson playing bad is still better than Gelinas at his best, because Gelinas just isn't very good at NHL hockey.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Given how well Severson has responded to being benched, I'll say Hynes' coaching decision worked out well. Kinda sucks that Gelinas was the replacement but it is what it is, I'm sure if Merrill was healthy he would've been in there instead.

Going into this season, in theory, it seemed like Hynes was the perfect coach for us. Having a young squad a few years into our retool and a coach that has a track-record for developing young talent through his AHL days seemed great. Now that we're only a few months away from finishing the year I think that Hynes staff, in practice, have done a fantastic job. His handling of the young kids, the system he's put in place, the way he gets the most out his players almost every night. It's all great news for us moving forward in my opinion. Just wait until he has more talent to work with in the next few seasons with our young guys making the jump and potential free agent signings, I'm very excited.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The response would've been the same with one game or three from Severson I think. One game would've been okay. Three when we were in the playoff hunt was a bad call, given how atrocious Gelinas was. You can't insist that guys earn their spots and then give Gelinas a free pass for being a catastrophe on skates just because you want to send a message to Severson for being much less terrible. Just play the better player if he's healthy.

 

[Zippy316]

Most Severson should've been scratched was one game. Three was overkill. One would've been enough of a wakeup call or step back. We really aren't a team that should be icing an inferior lineup just to send messages when in the playoff hunt. Severson playing bad is still better than Gelinas at his best, because Gelinas just isn't very good at NHL hockey.

It's not about Severson playing bad being better than Gelinas.

It's better to sit Severson -- who is still 21 years old -- for a few games instead of his bad games compounding until it gets to a point where he loses confidence. He was struggling; he needed a step back. The coaching staff thought he needed a few games off which was understandable. He sat out. He rested up. He came back and he's been great since.

Gelinas, on the other hand, is closing into he-is-what-he-is territory. You play him through bad games because that's the only way he will learn. He's sat out enough. He's been coached enough. He's got to learn through playing, otherwise the bad habits will never leave. Again, his play was trending upwards even with the bad mistakes because the coaching staff was giving him a chance to redeem himself. Severson was struggling so he got a few more games of it while Severson took a step back.

Also, Gelinas was producing a goal each game even through his gaffes. The one game he had a big part in two of the goals so it's not as in he was a net negative. Severson wasn't doing anything offensively and he was fighting the puck.

 

[Cheddabombs]

The response would've been the same with one game or three from Severson I think. One game would've been okay. Three when we were in the playoff hunt was a bad call, given how atrocious Gelinas was. You can't insist that guys earn their spots and then give Gelinas a free pass for being a catastrophe on skates just because you want to send a message to Severson for being much less terrible. Just play the better player if he's healthy.

No offense, but I'll trust Hynes and his staffs' judgment over anyone on this board when it comes to stuff like that. Aside from the fact that there's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know of, he's done a good job of developing a lot young talent over the years. I'll trust in his experience and knowledge.

It's not like this is a Deboer/Larsson saga over again. Hynes has used Severson plenty this season and looks like he trusts him a lot given his young age. That benching was a rare occurrence and was done with a purpose behind it.

 

[Bleedred]

I'm alright with MAG getting the chances on the PP, I think it just lasted too long. Or at least his first unit time did.

I also didn't like calling up guys like Sislo and Thompson, but I don't think it was Hynes that made that call.

I'm thankful we don't have to see either anymore, especially Thompson because he was really bad.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

It's not about Severson playing bad being better than Gelinas.

It's better to sit Severson -- who is still 21 years old -- for a few games instead of his bad games compounding until it gets to a point where he loses confidence. He was struggling; he needed a step back. The coaching staff thought he needed a few games off which was understandable.

Gelinas, on the other hand, is closing into he-is-what-he-is territory. You play him through bad games because that's the only way he will learn. He's sat out enough. He's been coached enough. He's got to learn through playing, otherwise the bad habits will never leave.

One game off would also have been fine for Severson to regroup. I don't think he needed three games off.

With Gelinas, there isn't going to be any learning--you see he makes the same big mistakes in the very same game, because nothing gets through to him--or if any learning does take place it occurs at such a glacial pace that it really won't benefit this team any time in the foreseeable future. He isn't likely to develop into a player that will substantially help us in the future (I think his stupidity has stunted his development) and he's not going to help us win now. In fact, he's going to hinder that. We need to move past the idea of Gelinas ever learning or ever contributing to this team now or in the future. He's useless unless Shero can trick another team into trading something for him.

Now, overall, I'm pleased with Hynes, but I think he made the wrong call here. That's fine. No coach is perfect.

 

[Zippy316]

I'm alright with MAG getting the chances on the PP, I think it just lasted too long. Or at least his first unit time did.

I also didn't like calling up guys like Sislo and Thompson, but I don't think it was Hynes that made that call.

I'm thankful we don't have to see either anymore, especially Thompson because he was really bad.

But with anything, guys that come up are given a few games to settle in and see how they regroup.

I would much rather that than DeBoer's method of playing guys in situations where they can't succeed and pulling the plug on them rather quickly. If you call a guy up, give him a fair shake. Give him a few games to see how he plays.

Then you make the mistake. One game doesn't tell you anything. A few games is a better indicator of what a player has to give.

 

[Devils Dominion]

No offense, but I'll trust Hynes and his staffs' judgment over anyone on this board when it comes to stuff like that. Aside from the fact that there's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know of, he's done a good job of developing a lot young talent over the years. I'll trust in his experience and knowledge.

It's not like this is a Deboer/Larsson saga over again. Hynes has used Severson plenty this season and looks like he trusts him a lot given his young age. That benching was a rare occurrence and was done with a purpose behind it.

I was thinking the same thing.
Hynes and staff are around these guys all the time.
I do trust them to do the right things that have to be done to win now and also not to ruin a player's confidence.

I did not trust Pete to do those things however.

 

[Zippy316]

One game off would also have been fine for Severson to regroup. I don't think he needed three games off.

With Gelinas, there isn't going to be any learning--you see he makes the same big mistakes in the very same game, because nothing gets through to him--or if any learning does take place it occurs at such a glacial pace that it really won't benefit this team any time in the foreseeable future. He isn't likely to develop into a player that will substantially help us in the future (I think his stupidity has stunted his development) and he's not going to help us win now. In fact, he's going to hinder that. We need to move past the idea of Gelinas ever learning or ever contributing to this team now or in the future. He's useless unless Shero can trick another team into trading something for him.

Now, overall, I'm pleased with Hynes, but I think he made the wrong call here. That's fine. No coach is perfect.

The funny thing is you're nitpicking here. Over 50+ games, the one major thing you can complain with the young players about is three games where Severson sat over Gelinas.

For a coach that has done a terrific job handling the young players and giving every player in the line-up a fair chance, you would think he would have a good reasoning behind sitting Severson and playing Gelinas.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

No offense, but I'll trust Hynes and his staffs' judgment over anyone on this board when it comes to stuff like that. Aside from the fact that there's plenty going on behind the scenes that we don't know of, he's done a good job of developing a lot young talent over the years. I'll trust in his experience and knowledge.

It's not like this is a Deboer/Larsson saga over again. Hynes has used Severson plenty this season and looks like he trusts him a lot given his young age. That benching was a rare occurrence and was done with a purpose behind it.

Fine. We're all just sharing our opinions here. It's not like any of us have any sway with this team. Personally, I don't agree with Hynes here, even though I think he's done a fine job overall.

And I didn't compare it to Larsson and Pete. It's different but annoying because we're actually competing for a playoff spot and we were treated to three extra games of Gelinas.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The funny thing is you're nitpicking here. Over 50+ games, the one major thing you can complain with the young players about is three games where Severson sat over Gelinas.

For a coach that has done a terrific job handling the young players and giving every player in the line-up a fair chance, you would think he would have a good reasoning behind sitting Severson and playing Gelinas.

I said multiple times throughout this discussion that I thought Hynes had done a good job overall and that I for the most part agree with his handling of young players. Therefore, it seems logical that I would only have a few complaints. Since the season started, I've also been pretty positive about Hynes in my posts. I don't have any agenda against the guy. This is one of the few things I disagree with him on. I'm not using it as some sort of thesis to prove he's a bad coach or anything, but there's nothing wrong with the idea that a rookie head coach might make an occasional error in judgement. Hey, maybe he'll even learn from mistakes and grow into an even better coach.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Most Severson should've been scratched was one game. Three was overkill. One would've been enough of a wakeup call or step back. We really aren't a team that should be icing an inferior lineup just to send messages when in the playoff hunt. Severson playing bad is still better than Gelinas at his best, because Gelinas just isn't very good at NHL hockey.

It's kind of a weird situation because we didn't expect to be good this year. We thought this would be a learning and growing year, but now we find ourselves in favorable position to make the playoffs.

Hynes is all about accountability and developing good habits. That's kind of his calling card and I don't want to discourage that. And to be honest, we're kind of playing with house money. If we don't make the playoffs I won't lose sleep because no one on the planet predicted us to make the playoffs this year anyway.

I'd rather have Hynes stick to his guns. We saw what happened when DeBoer focused on results over accountability, he ended up with neither.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

It's kind of a weird situation because we didn't expect to be good this year. We thought this would be a learning and growing year, but now we find ourselves in favorable position to make the playoffs.

Hynes is all about accountability and developing good habits. That's kind of his calling card and I don't want to discourage that. And to be honest, we're kind of playing with house money. If we don't make the playoffs I won't lose sleep because no one on the planet predicted us to make the playoffs this year anyway.

I'd rather have Hynes stick to his guns. We saw what happened when DeBoer focused on results over accountability, he ended up with neither.

Thing is to hold Severson accountable, he wasn't holding Gelinas accountable for a performance that was even worse. At least from where I was viewing the games.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Fine. We're all just sharing our opinions here. It's not like any of us have any sway with this team. Personally, I don't agree with Hynes here, even though I think he's done a fine job overall.

And I didn't compare it to Larsson and Pete. It's different but annoying because we're actually competing for a playoff spot and we were treated to three extra games of Gelinas.

Oh I know you didn't, I just wanted to bring it up to contrast the two situations. Severson's was done to be a learning experience and come back stronger, which he has done since returning to the lineup. The other was just an idiot coach benching someone constantly for no good reason

Edit: And I don't want to go through the trouble of quoting your above post, but to touch on the accountability thing. Gelly has played 34 games and Severson has played 53. Hynes has held Gelinas plenty accountable during the season and disciplined him as such. This was just a rare occurrence, and combined with our injury trouble it caused Gelinas to play a few more games while Severson watched.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Oh I know you didn't, I just wanted to bring it up to contrast the two situations. Severson's was done to be a learning experience and come back stronger, which he has done since returning to the lineup. The other was just an idiot coach benching someone constantly for no good reason

Yeah, this definitely wasn't a Larsson situation (thank heavens). I hope we never have to see another Larsson situation while we are Devils fans.

 

[Zippy316]

Thing is to hold Severson accountable, he wasn't holding Gelinas accountable for a performance that was even worse. At least from where I was viewing the games.

The thing was Severson was fighting the puck for a few games before that.

Gelinas was playing well, but making some noticeably bad mistakes at times. They are two completely different things. If Gelinas didn't make that bad pinch or bad defensive play each game, he would've played near-perfect games those nights. It wasn't even like it was four or five plays a night, it would usually be one bad pinch or one bad defensive play. One or the other each game. Most people harped on him because it just so happened that his play ended up leading to goals against. Often times, he was one of multiple people at fault on the goals as well.

Severson was struggling but he wasn't doing anything costly. Hynes sat him because he needed time off. Gelinas didn't need time off; he just needed to snap out of his bad decisions.

Again, that's why Severson got some time off and Gelinas stayed in the line-up.

 

[Cheddabombs]

Anyhoo, I was reading TG's post-game blog and saw this from Blandisi

“I just want to show them I want to help the team win any way it takes,” Blandisi said. “Blocking shots is a big part of playing defense. I think I got two or three blocks in the third period. The more we can keep the puck away from our net the better, so I think I responded pretty well.”

I'm pretty sure he's said something along those lines before, maybe in training camp, but that right there is the reason that he's going to succeed in this league in my opinion. Not only does he have the skill but he's got the drive, the tenacity to help the team in any way. Even if the point well runs dry he'll still be a very effective third line guy with the motor he has and that tenacious mentality. I don't think it'll come to that as I think he'll be a top 6 guy for us, but at the very least in the worst case scenario we should at least have an NHL player in him.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The thing was Severson was fighting the puck for a few games before that.

Gelinas was playing well, but making some noticeably bad mistakes at times. They are two completely different things. If Gelinas didn't make that bad pinch or bad defensive play each game, he would've played near-perfect games those nights. It wasn't even like it was four or five plays a night, it would usually be one bad pinch or one bad defensive play. One or the other each game.

Severson was struggling but he wasn't doing anything costly. Hynes sat him because he needed time off. Gelinas didn't need time off; he just needed to snap out of his bad decisions.

Again, that's why Severson got some time off and Gelinas stayed in the line-up.

Honestly, at this point, I think the conversation is pretty much going in circles, so I'll courteously disengage. We both have our perspectives and theories and interpretations of what happened, and valid reasons (in my opinion) for believing what we do. I respect your viewpoint even if I disagree. Hopefully, you can do the same with mine.

 

[Zippy316]

Loved this from TG's blog though:

“He was a little loose, I think,” Hynes said. “It was just to say you've got to play the right way in a tight, close game where there's not a lot of margin for error. You've got to play smart, not safe. It was just some puck decisions and things like that that we wanted to see a little bit more responsibility from him.”

Hynes made it clear to Blandisi exactly why.

“I made a turnover at the blue line a couple shifts into the period and (Hynes) pulled me aside and said, 'Don't do that again,'” Blandisi said. “Then, I went out the next shift and I lost the puck at the blue line again (by) accident, but I think at that point of the game, 1-0, you can't really give up those pucks at the blue line. That's a pretty crucial area and I deserved to be sat on that one. It's definitely going to teach me a lesson for the future.”

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

Anyhoo, I was reading TG's post-game blog and saw this from Blandisi



I'm pretty sure he's said something along those lines before, maybe in training camp, but that right there is the reason that he's going to succeed in this league in my opinion. Not only does he have the skill but he's got the drive, the tenacity to help the team in any way. Even if the point well runs dry he'll still be a very effective third line guy with the motor he has and that tenacious mentality. I don't think it'll come to that as I think he'll be a top 6 guy for us, but at the very least in the worst case scenario we should at least have an NHL player in him.

Good points and quote. It does look pretty sure that we've got an NHL player in him, although I think we're hoping that the flashes that show he might be top six material are true. It would be huge for the Devils if he really is that top six playmaking type we've been looking for.