GDT: Devils vs. Islanders 5PM MSG+

[Maine Fan]

There will be games like this especially with our injuries.

 

[JimEIV]

There will be games like this especially with our injuries.

Even without injuries there will be games like these.

Back to the 1999-00 team, they got shut out 5-0 on 3 different occasions that year.

It happens.

 

[Devils Dominion]

We need #'s 14 & 19 back in the worst way.

 

[Nocashstyle]

^exactly. Last night sucked, but I don't think anything different of this team. This is a playoff capable team. Bad game...move on.

 

[JimEIV]

We need Severson and Merrill as the 3rd pairing and Schlemko and Moore as the 2nd pairing, giving Merrill and Severson the opportunity to play their way become the 2nd pairing.

They are better players than Moore and Schlemko right now and they are the future of the defense.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Even when Zajac and Henrique come back we still need a bottom six faceoff guy. They don't need to be a good player, just someone who can take a regualr shift and maybe get some light PK duty. Mostly just a faceoff guy though.

I miss Ryan Carter.

 

[NJDevs26]

Even without injuries there will be games like these.

Back to the 1999-00 team, they got shut out 5-0 on 3 different occasions that year.

It happens.

And that's why a coach got fired, cause that group of players had no reason losing games like that or losing ten out of fourteen.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Even when Zajac and Henrique come back we still need a bottom six faceoff guy. They don't need to be a good player, just someone who can take a regualr shift and maybe get some light PK duty. Mostly just a faceoff guy though.

I miss Ryan Carter.

You and me both.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

You're going to have these type games, especially, with Zajac and Henrique out. However, there is a big difference between us and the Islanders. They get more offense from their back line and the biggest difference is when healthy we have two good lines, they have four. One could say that their 4th line., may be as good as our second line, that's why they're a cup contender and we're a bubble team at best. They may be the deepest team in the league and we have mostly AHL players filling out our roster. Hopefully, next season with a couple of kids making the team and a couple signings like we did with Step, we could be a deeper, at least 3 lines deep team. You're not going to be a serious team with Gionta, Oneil and Tootoo's of the world. It is what it is.

 

[Wingman77]

Regarding the Bernier hit on Greene;

Bernier was trying to hit Greene, but said what happened on the hit was not intentional.

“I didn't think he was going to stop and change,†Bernier said. “I played with Greenie. He usually dumps the puck in, you go to hit him and he puts his shoulder up. I was surprised he changed. I didn't think it was a bad hit. As a player, you want to defend your teammate. At that time, everybody thought it was a bad hit, so (Larsson) came to defend his teammate and I had to defend myself. That's hockey."

“I know Bernie doesn't mean anything by it,†Greene said. “He's playing hard and he finishes checks. He's not trying to hurt me there. I don't think so.â€

“He plays the game hard and players that play the game hard it's going to happen, hits like that,†Larsson said. “Unfortunately, it was Greenie.â€

Larsson said Bernier tried to explain what happened when both were in the penalty boxes.

“I think every time you hit a guy into the boards like that, I don't think you really mean to do it, so that's what he kind of was trying to explain there,†Larsson said.

That does not change the mentality that teammates need to stand up for each other in those situations, though.

“It's not going to come from me every time and it's not going to come from a single guy every time,†Larsson said. “I think you just have to stick up for each other. That can be turning points in game, too.â€

 

[JimEIV]

You're going to have these type games. Especially, with Zajac and Henrique out. However, there is a big difference between us and the Islanders. They get more offense from their back line and the biggest difference is when healthy we have two good lines, they have four. One could say that their 4th line., may be has good has our second line, that's why they're a cup contender and we're a bubble team at best. They may be the deepest team in the league and we have mostly AHL players filling out our roster. Hopefully, next with a couple of kids making the team and a couple signings like we did with Step, we could be a deeper, at least 3 lines deep. You're not going to be a serious teams with Gionta, Oneil and Tootoo's of the world. It is what it is.

When you take your top pairing, that plays 22+ minutes a night, and start them outside of the offensive zone 80% of the time and have them killing 80% penalties and zero power play time you aren't going to generate much offense from your back line.

They have it in their mind that Moore is going to provide for that offensive role and he has been a miserable failure at both ends of the ice...That is because he is only a bottom pairing Dman playing way above his head.

 

[Devils Dominion]

NYb is a much better team than us, no question.
We only have an advantage in goal vs them.

 

[Zippy316]

When you take your top pairing, that plays 22+ minutes a night, and start them outside of the offensive zone 80% of the time and have them killing 80% penalties and zero power play time you aren't going to generate much offense from your back line.

They have it in their mind that Moore is going to provide for that offensive role and he has been a miserable failure at both ends of the ice...That is because he is only a bottom pairing Dman playing way above his head.

Again. It has a lot to do with being such a flawed team.

Do you think if they evened out some of those defensive zone minutes we would be doing as well as we are now? I highly doubt that would be the case.

I think their general hope is that Merrill, Severson, or Moore play well enough to take away some of those defensive zone minutes at some point. Until then, they are overloading on the two guys that can. Moore's numbers show he's not ready for a serious increase in a more defensive role, Severson is a bit more debatable, and Merrill hasn't been able to push his way into an everyday spot yet.

 

[Camille the Eel]

When you take your top pairing, that plays 22+ minutes a night, and start them outside of the offensive zone 80% of the time and have them killing 80% penalties and zero power play time you aren't going to generate much offense from your back line.

They have it in their mind that Moore is going to provide for that offensive role and he has been a miserable failure at both ends of the ice...That is because he is only a bottom pairing Dman playing way above his head.

I totally disagree about Moore. I think he's been one of our biggest assets this season and a huge addition to the club. His skating is superb, he makes great puck decisions, I think he's the equal of Greene and after Greene our best skating D man. And I love him paired with Severson. I respect your view but all the same, it's a case of "go figure" as to how one judges players.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Moore has been way better than Merrill this year and people are quick to defend Merrill and bash Moore

why is that? because Merrill is homegrown?

 

[Zippy316]

Moore has been way better than Merrill this year and people are quick to defend Merrill and bash Moore

why is that? because Merrill is homegrown?

It's very debatable. Moore gets difficult minutes but he has been getting killed defensively. More often then not, you'll see Moore out there when a goal is scored. I could see the argument going both ways.

However, Moore is also a lot more experienced then Merrill so I think that's part of the reason to why he's getting the harder minutes even if he's struggling a bit.

 

[JimEIV]

Again. It has a lot to do with being such a flawed team.

Do you think if they evened out some of those defensive zone minutes we would be doing as well as we are now? I highly doubt that would be the case.

I think their general hope is that Merrill, Severson, or Moore play well enough to take away some of those defensive zone minutes at some point. Until then, they are overloading on the two guys that can. Moore's numbers show he's not ready for a serious increase in a more defensive role, Severson is a bit more debatable, and Merrill hasn't been able to push his way into an everyday spot yet.

I honestly do think they would be doing better. Much better.

Moore is a disaster. And we are starting to see a trend here, like with Josefson, no matter how these players under perform the staff keeps doing the same thing like it might change. Isn't that the exact definition of insanity?

Merrill's GA and SA are wildly better than Moore"s and their zone starts aren't all that much different for how poorly Moore has performed.

Severson is better offensively and defensively than Moore by every measurable.

Yet the coaching staff keeps trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

In a sense this is no different from Pete using Harrold as a top 4 dman but in this instance Severson and Merrill actually have decent underlying numbers and are performing better than Moore. You couldn't say that about other Dmen when Harrold was in.

You have to completely ignore all the numbers to think Moore's usage has been good.

Evening up the opportunity should create more from the top pairing and should push Moore down. And that is a good thing.

 

[JimEIV]

Shots against Moore 7 out of 7
Goal Against Moore 7 out of 7


And the Big One, SF% because if his shots for are not making up for abysmal shots against we have a problem.

But alas, SF% Moore 7 out 7 -- Yes Virginia, Moore shot differential is worse than everybody's on the team and there is no Santa Clause.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

I honestly do think they would be doing better. Much better.

Moore is a disaster. And we are starting to see a trend here, like with Josefson, no matter how these players under perform the staff keeps doing the same thing like it might change. Isn't that the exact definition of insanity?

Merrill's GA and SA are wildly better than Moore"s and their zone starts aren't all that much different for how poorly Moore has performed.

Severson is better offensively and defensively than Moore by every measurable.

Yet the coaching staff keeps trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

In a sense this is no different from Pete using Harrold as a top 4 dman but in this instance Severson and Merrill actually have decent underlying numbers and are performing better than Moore. You couldn't say that about other Dmen when Harrold was in.

You have to completely ignore all the numbers to think Moore's usage has been good.

Evening up the opportunity should create more from the top pairing and should push Moore down. And that is a good thing.

I don't think Moore is a disaster. You can't rely on on-ice goals stats with a 30 game sample. Moore also has the best on-ice SF/60 on a team that needs to get more shots on net, and he's shown this ability in the past, so I'm not surprised he's being utilized more.

Also, Merrill does not have better underlying numbers than Moore, at least on a shot basis. And Merrill starts in the defensive zone significantly less than Moore.

In fact, if we want to talk goal stats, Merrill has by far the worst on-ice goal differential among our defenseman. Moore is third.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...amid=18&type=goals&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

And Jim, how is Severson better offensively on every available measure? Moore's on-ice SF/60 and GF/60 are better. And Severson starts less in the defensive zone.

We have four years of Josefson's futility on this team. Let's not compare the two.

 

[JimEIV]

I don't think Moore is a disaster. You can't rely on on-ice goals stats with a 30 game sample. Moore also has the best on-ice SF/60 on a team that needs to get more shots on net, and he's shown this ability in the past, so I'm not surprised he's being utilized more.

Also, Merrill does not have better underlying numbers than Moore, at least on a shot basis. And Merrill starts in the defensive zone significantly less than Moore.

In fact, if we want to talk goal stats, Merrill has by far the worst on-ice goal differential among our defenseman. Moore is third.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...amid=18&type=goals&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

And Jim, how is Severson better offensively on every available measure? Moore's on-ice SF/60 and GF/60 are better. And Severson starts less in the defensive zone.

We have four years of Josefson's futility on this team. Let's not compare the two.

Nope! Moore is an utter disaster. You can't look at the performance and say it has been even ok.


Merrill's Goal stats are nearly Identical to half of the Defense while playing with far worse teammates.

Last week when I checked Merrill's two most common forward partners were Gionata and Tootoo 5v5...Uhm, yeah.


Merrill's Goals For are just about exact the the same as Andy Greene's


Look at Merrill in relationship to his peers. This really isn't out of sync with the rest of the team...

Goals For per - 60
LARSSON 1.42
GELINAS 1.36
GREENE 1.15
MERRILL 1.11

Those difference are easily attributed to the players they play with. They are harly different when you consider Larsson's most two common forward partners where Zajac and Palmieri (last week) and Merrill's were Tootoo and Gionta...You may evwen argue Merrill's numbers are pretty damn impressive considering


Moore's defensive numbers however are completely out of line with the rest of the team...Completely.

Shots against is 6 higher than the team average, his Goals against are worst than anybody on the team by more than 1/3 of goal...It is ridiculously bad.

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't think Moore is a disaster. You can't rely on on-ice goals stats with a 30 game sample. Moore also has the best on-ice SF/60 on a team that needs to get more shots on net, and he's shown this ability in the past, so I'm not surprised he's being utilized more.

Also, Merrill does not have better underlying numbers than Moore, at least on a shot basis. And Merrill starts in the defensive zone significantly less than Moore.

In fact, if we want to talk goal stats, Merrill has by far the worst on-ice goal differential among our defenseman. Moore is third.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...amid=18&type=goals&sort=PCTRelTM&sortdir=DESC

And Jim, how is Severson better offensively on every available measure? Moore's on-ice SF/60 and GF/60 are better. And Severson starts less in the defensive zone.

We have four years of Josefson's futility on this team. Let's not compare the two.

You bring up an interesting point with the SF stat cause till now all I've seen here is the bad SA stat with Moore. If you help allow a lot of shots on goal but help create as many or more the effect should be negligible.

I want to see the SF/SA difference with all the defensemen, not just SF or SA but the difference between the two

 

[JimEIV]

You bring up an interesting point with the SF stat cause till now all I've seen here is the bad SA stat with Moore. If you help allow a lot of shots on goal but help create as many or more the effect should be negligible.

I want to see the SF/SA difference with all the defensemen, not just SF or SA but the difference between the two

# Player Name SF60 SA60 SF%
1 GELINAS, ERIC 28.94 20.75 58.2
2 SCHLEMKO, DAVID 23.77 23.39 50.4
3 GREENE, ANDY 21.87 23.48 48.2
4 LARSSON, ADAM 22.46 24.11 48.2
5 SEVERSON, DAMON 27.01 29.38 47.9
6 MERRILL, JON 22.55 25.51 46.9
7 MOORE, JOHN 27.31 31.14 46.7

How do you ignore that 31.14 shots against? Regardless of the difference? Which is the worst on the team. 5.63 shot difference between Moore and Merrill per 60. That means Moore is going to give up about 140 more shots than Merrill over the course of this season. based on 1500 minutes.

 

[JimEIV]

And Jim, how is Severson better offensively on every available measure? Moore's on-ice SF/60 and GF/60 are better. And Severson starts less in the defensive zone.

Severson is blowing everyone away P/60 5v5.


# Player Name Team Points/60
1 SEVERSON, DAMON New Jersey 0.97
2 MOORE, JOHN New Jersey 0.68
3 SCHLEMKO, DAVID New Jersey 0.37
4 LARSSON, ADAM New Jersey 0.35
5 MERRILL, JON New Jersey 0
6 GELINAS, ERIC New Jersey 0
7 GREENE, ANDY New Jersey 0

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Severson is blowing everyone away P/60 5v5.


# Player Name Team Points/60
1 SEVERSON, DAMON New Jersey 0.97
2 MOORE, JOHN New Jersey 0.68
3 SCHLEMKO, DAVID New Jersey 0.37
4 LARSSON, ADAM New Jersey 0.35
5 MERRILL, JON New Jersey 0
6 GELINAS, ERIC New Jersey 0
7 GREENE, ANDY New Jersey 0

Lol, "blowing everyone away" equates to two more ES points than Moore.

Jim, I respect the reliance on statistics, however you try to create conclusions out of very flimsy sample sizes quite a bit.

 

[bobilly45]

It was a bad game, but things like this happen. I'm just glad we don't have to call that dump of an areana home