GDT: Devils v.s. Wild: Blazing Saddles Edition

[Devils Dominion]

Everyone needs to understand Cory is a legit top 5 goalie in this league.

That's pretty much the consensus around the league.
Most think he's a Top-3 already.

 

[VainGretzky]

everyone needs to understand cory is a legit top 2 goalie in this league.

ftfy

 

[Richer's Ghost]

RG - you should photoshop together a Price is Right yodelers game Devils fans edition with each number getting closer to the edge of the cliff representing something.

We could use it as the current feel of our board for after a win or loss

 

[JimEIV]

That's pretty much the consensus around the league.
Most think he's a Top-3 already.

So a friend of mine was telling me about his $325 Van Staal fishing pliers...he says these are the best! They are made out of titanium, have a life time warranty....

I said what do they do that $10 pliers wont? He said come on, these are the best and won't ever rust in saltwater. I said ok.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Was this an old one or did you just whip it up?

 

[Devils Dominion]

So a friend of mine was telling me about his $325 Van Staal fishing pliers...he says these are the best! They are made out of titanium, have a life time warranty....

I said what do they do that $10 pliers wont? He said come on, these are the best and won't ever rust in saltwater. I said ok.

Are you in the crowd of he stands on his head all game but doesn't make the clutch save at the right time?

 

[Ripshot 43]

So a friend of mine was telling me about his $325 Van Staal fishing pliers...he says these are the best! They are made out of titanium, have a life time warranty....

I said what do they do that $10 pliers wont? He said come on, these are the best and won't ever rust in saltwater. I said ok.

I see the point that your trying to make.... but keep that fishing talk in the OT thread

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Was this an old one or did you just whip it up?

just made it

 

[JimEIV]

Are you in the crowd of he stands on his head all game but doesn't make the clutch save at the right time?

I just don't see much different in a top goalie to a middle of the pack goalie. In all honesty.

Most of them seem very generic to me. They seem to make very little difference until they suck.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

I just don't see much different in a top goalie to a middle of the pack goalie. In all honesty.

Most of them seem very generic to me. They seem to make very little difference until they suck.

You can do the math on how many goals he saves compared to a league average save percentage. Every year Schneider is above average in that regard. No matter what team or defense is in front of him. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly complain about Schneider. He's just about as good as anyone in the NHL at his craft, period. He's clearly our best player, not even remotely close.

He's not overpaid and the cap isn't an issue for us, Schneider shouldn't be a controversial figure. You can debate just how much he helps us win games, but he helps us about as much as any other goalie could help us win games.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

How are we debating Cory when he and Hall are the only reasons we have any wins this season?

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

Strictly going by eye test, when it comes to pure puck stopping, I don't think there is anyone better in the league than Cory. His positional game is so strong that he honestly makes his saves look routine no matter how difficult the play / shot. Where he lacks is in the finer points of the game, puck handling, poke checks and breaking up plays. That's basically the difference between him and say Carey Price, who is the current gold standard of the position.

One thing I have noticed this season is that Cory does appear to be stronger in the crease. He's been very strong on jam plays and has handled traffic around him well. Whatever the case, we're lucky to have him. He's rock solid.

 

[Bleedred]

I share Jim's opinion on goalies being a dime a dozen or very generic or whatever.

I just don't think Schneider is one of those.

When I think of generic goalies and dime a dozen, I think of guys like Halak, Dubnyk or Ryan Miller, Frederik Andersen. Guys that aren't bad but are not all that great and don't do anything to stand out.

 

[JimEIV]

I share Jim's opinion on goalies being a dime a dozen or very generic or whatever.

I just don't think Schneider is one of those.

When I think of generic goalies and dime a dozen, I think of guys like Halak, Dubnyk or Ryan Miller, Frederik Andersen. Guys that aren't bad but are not all that great and don't do anything to stand out.

I can respect that. ..that is the opinion that there are a few that are above the fray so to speak.

But the question is how important is that? Is it a "nice to have" or an advantage?

 

[Bleedred]

I can respect that. ..that is the opinion that there are a few that are above the fray so to speak.

But the question is how important is that? Is it a "nice to have" or an advantage?

I think with a select few goaltenders, it's an advantage.

There's also quite a few teams like Dallas and Nashville to a lesser extent, where their goaltending sucks but they get to the playoffs in spite of it. And then the goaltending is their demise and eventually does them in, like Lehtonen did to Dallas last year. But every once in a while a crap goaltender will play good for a few rounds, like what both Philly and Chicago had in 2010. Even though that goaltending eventually did Philly in.

Then you got teams like Carolina, where the goaltending is keeping them down. And they refuse to move out of 2006 and into 2016, where Cam Ward is now the worst starter in the league.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Most goalies are pretty similar. There are about five to six goalies who are really good, and they are worth their weight in gold.

Since Schneider became a starter in Vancouver in 12-13, he has the best save percentage and GAA in the league. That's not an accident, and that's definitive proof that he isn't a dime a dozen guy.

GAA:
1. Schneider - 2.13
2. Price - 2.22
3. Quick -2.23
4. Rask - 2.25
5. Crawford - 2.27

Sv%:
1. Schneider - .925
2. Price - .925
3. Rask - .924
4. Crawford - .921
5. Bishop - .921

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

are we really debating Cory Schneider? like, thats a thing thats happening?

 

[Hisch13r]

You can do the math on how many goals he saves compared to a league average save percentage. Every year Schneider is above average in that regard. No matter what team or defense is in front of him. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly complain about Schneider. He's just about as good as anyone in the NHL at his craft, period. He's clearly our best player, not even remotely close.

He's not overpaid and the cap isn't an issue for us, Schneider shouldn't be a controversial figure. You can debate just how much he helps us win games, but he helps us about as much as any other goalie could help us win games.

He's underpaid by over like 2million. He's easily worth 8+ and we have him at 6

 

[MrLouniverse]

I was just making the argument (tangentially, in the derailed [as if it could still exist on topic] Larsson thread) that having one of the exceptional goalies who is more than the modern day set of giant pads is just as important if not more so to the strength of your team defense than who your defensemen are.

I'll go further and say that our depressed scoring is in part a function of a long strategy (whether you agree with it or not,) of drafting and developing two way forwards (particularly up the middle,) but that this paradigm has simultaneously allowed for some defensive skater weakness shored up by those complementary abilities in our forwards.

Yeah, our defense is weaker than average, but we have an elite goalie and it wasn't nearly as important to keep Adam Larsson as it was to acquire Taylor Hall. We don't have to score as much as the league leaders to win games, just more than we've been scoring. One of the reasons that having an elite goalie is so important to success beyond their scarcity is that it allows teams to devote resources they might have devoted to defense units to other areas. To this day, I don't know what Vancouver was thinking those couple of years.

In Cory We Trust.

 

[Hisch13r]

I was just making the argument (tangentially, in the derailed [as if it could still exist on topic] Larsson thread) that having one of the exceptional goalies who is more than the modern day set of giant pads is just as important if not more so to the strength of your team defense than who your defensemen are.

I'll go further and say that our depressed scoring is in part a function of a long strategy (whether you agree with it or not,) of drafting and developing two way forwards (particularly up the middle,) but that this paradigm has simultaneously allowed for some defensive skater weakness shored up by those complementary abilities in our forwards.

Yeah, our defense is weaker than average, but we have an elite goalie and it wasn't nearly as important to keep Adam Larsson as it was to acquire Taylor Hall. We don't have to score as much as the league leaders to win games, just more than we've been scoring. One of the reasons that having an elite goalie is so important to success beyond their scarcity is that it allows teams to devote resources they might have devoted to defense units to other areas. To this day, I don't know what Vancouver was thinking those couple of years.

In Cory We Trust.

Lundqvist has been doing it for a decade, we saw the difference in Montreal from last year and 2 years ago

 

[Bleedred]

Lundqvist has been doing it for a decade, we saw the difference in Montreal from last year and 2 years ago

We also saw the difference (albeit in a short sample size) when Cory was injured last year.

Not including the 4 games where Wedgewood did his best Cory impersonation, Kinkaid was a sieve.

We even won more games in spite of Kinkaid last year than we won with Cory in spite of him, and Cory started 35+ games more than Kinkaid did.

That game against Nashville last year, we tied the game minutes after a typical Kinkaid softy and then won in OT. That game against the Wild last year, having Kinkaid almost let the Wild back in that game.

 

[DatBoyJPP]

I just don't see much different in a top goalie to a middle of the pack goalie. In all honesty.

Most of them seem very generic to me. They seem to make very little difference until they suck.

The difference is about a 2% higher save percentage which equates to 20-30 goals a year. I know this is your act but that's a huge difference

 

[JimEIV]

The difference is about a 2% higher save percentage which equates to 20-30 goals a year. I know this is your act but that's a huge difference

There were 29 goalies that started 40 or more games last season and there wasn't 2% difference between the vast majority of them...

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2016_goalies.html

I'm doing counts by eye here so I maybe be slightly off but...

14 had over a .920...23 out of the 29 had over a .915.

8 had a .922 or better

Only 5 of the 29 had under a .910

It would appear to me a bad goalie is more rare than a good one and that there are about 20 that are pretty much the same...at least statistically.

Even one that is consistently good is hardly much better than the pack in any given year

I'm still not sure how valuable having a guy that consistently puts up a .924 for 3 straight years is when in each of those years 10 or 12 goalies put up over a .920

Sure that is great for his legacy and plays well for "who's best" list, but I'm not seeing an advantage when half of the leagues starters are doing the the exact same thing in any given year.

 

[Devils090]

5 games in and we're already discrediting Schneider.

Lol

 

[NjDevsRR]

There were 29 goalies that started 40 or more games last season and there wasn't 2% difference between the vast majority of them...

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leagues/NHL_2016_goalies.html

I'm doing counts by eye here so I maybe be slightly off but...

14 had over a .920...23 out of the 29 had over a .915.

8 had a .922 or better

Only 5 of the 29 had under a .910

It would appear to me a bad goalie is more rare than a good one and that there are about 20 that are pretty much the same...at least statistically.

Even one that is consistently good is hardly much better than the pack in any given year

I'm still not sure how valuable having a guy that consistently puts up a .924 for 3 straight years is when in each of those years 10 or 12 goalies put up over a .920

Sure that is great for his legacy and plays well for "who's best" list, but I'm not seeing an advantage when half of the leagues starters are doing the the exact same thing in any given year.

Why does your narrative even matter when Schneider isn't even paid like a top goalie.