Devils Team Discussion (team/player news and notes) ‎2015 offseason IV

[JimEIV]

No that forward group is on par with Buffalo, maybe even worse.

I really don't think so...replacing the games from Ryder, Zubrus, Havlat, Gionta, Clowe with Boucher, Matteau, Kalinin and Thompson would be a net positive. No doubt in my mind about that.

 

[nugg]

Hockey players don't have a problem with confidence that's an NBA thing. The NHL is a lot more professional.

I believe Tedenby was heavily affected by confidence loss. Goaltenders are the most susceptible.

 

[jkrdevil]

Tedenby's problem was he got ragged dolled on the ice.

 

[JimEIV]

I believe Tedenby was heavily affected by confidence loss. Goaltenders are the most susceptible.

No Tedenby was just a terrible hockey player. maybe the dumbest we've ever had.

 

[JimEIV]

Ryder 6 goals - 47 games
Clowe 1 goal -13 games
Havlat 5 goals -40 games
Zubrus 4 goals - 74 games
Gionta 5 goals - 61 games
5 players 21 goals 235 games

That is a freakin joke.


Matteau had a goal in 7 games this season which is better than any of that hot mess about above..he's got 2 goals in 24 career games which is a better pace than Zubrus has this season.

Ryder had 6 goals in 47 games Boucher had 3 in 34 piecemeal games over 2 seasons, many of those games were less than 10 minutes it's hardly any different and I haven't looked but I'd bet the goals per/60 are pretty damn close...

 

[Czech Trio]

Don't castigate me. All cynism aside, what would it cost to get both JVR and Kessel out of Toronto?

I understand its not realistic, but what is a serious offer?

Atleast two of Henrique, Larsson/Severson, and the #6.

 

[RSeen]

I really don't think so...replacing the games from Ryder, Zubrus, Havlat, Gionta, Clowe with Boucher, Matteau, Kalinin and Thompson would be a net positive. No doubt in my mind about that.

We haven't even seen Kalinin play so we don't know if the guy is NHL ready, or anything so you are most likely just guessing. Thompson has not shown he is an NHL player and is 27. Shouldn't expect anything there. Boucher didn't look NHL ready at all. Matteau looks ready for a bottom 6 role but that is hardly going to make an impact.

 

[HBK27]

I would add St. Louis solely for the tradeable asset at the deadline. I would even look to guys like Ryder and Brunner were when we signed them. Sure they failed miserably, but we need guys to take up spots so our young players play where they should be. We don't want guys thrusted into roles they aren't ready for.

We want our young guys to start pushing players above them out of roles. Severson and Larsson pushed Zidlicky off the team. Bernier and Tootoo pushed Ryder and Havlat out of the line-up. Obviously, we want to see more of the first kind and not the second kind, but we need to get those filler guys. If they do well, it's just another pick or prospect you can get at the deadline.

St. Louis in a good year should fetch something like a 2nd + prospect. That alone should entice the Devils.

Given how weak our RW's are, signing St. Louis for a year (even though he was worthless in the playoffs) may not be a bad option - only if he agrees to be traded if the Devils fall out of playoff contention.

With Tampa Bay, he would only accept a deal to the Rangers - so what makes us think he'd be open to being traded out of the area if the Devils did sign him? Maybe if he realizes this is most likely his final season he'd be open to being dealt out of the area, but that needs to be established up front.

As for taking away a spot from a young player, seems like we have plenty of spots to go around and I would rather do short term deals and overpay that get locked into any bad long-term contracts.

 

[Blender]

No Tedenby was just a terrible hockey player. maybe the dumbest we've ever had.

Yup. You would think a guy with his speed and his stick handling ability would do well in Europe, but it doesn't appear he has been much better over there than here. He was always a boom or bust prospect, unfortunately for us it seems he has been a bust.

 

[Traitor Zach]

St. Louis was god-awful the last 35-40 games including the playoffs playing with lots of really good or high skilled players like Nash, Brassard, Hagelin, Stepan. I don't want him at all. He's going to want a nice chunk of change for what will be his last season most likely.

Considering we're still stuck with Zubrus and Elias for 1 more year, adding another late 30s player is an awful suggestion. Even if he was potential trade deadline material, he'd have to play fairly well and even then, what would we get back, a 2nd rounder for a 3.5-4m investment? We went through this with Jagr and it's to move in a better direction.

 

[JimEIV]

We haven't even seen Kalinin play so we don't know if the guy is NHL ready, or anything so you are most likely just guessing. Thompson has not shown he is an NHL player and is 27. Shouldn't expect anything there. Boucher didn't look NHL ready at all. Matteau looks ready for a bottom 6 role but that is hardly going to make an impact.

Impact? You want to talk about impact? That's like a homeless person saying he'll only live in a 3 bedroom house while scoffing at free studio apartment...

After Cammalleri Bernier was tied for the team lead in goals...let me say that again...Bernier was 2nd on this team in goals...and you want to talk impact? There hasn't been an impact player on this team in 3 years.

Adding players like Matteau, Boucher or even an unknown Kalinin that are all under 25, all will have better legs than the mess we iced last season and all have room to improve and grow and the fact of the matter is they really could not do any worse than what we were regularly using in the top 9 last season...

On top of that this board speaks out of both sides of their mouth... they'll complain if an overpriced, over 30 free agent is added, which all of them are and then tell you our youth sucks and doesn't belong in the lineup...OK so what is the solution? Phil Kessel? Merrill for some forward? What about the other 5 forwards we need to ice a team?

 

[JimEIV]

And another thing...this idea that we have too many Dmen is just nutty.

Greene, Larsson , Merrill, Severson and Gelinas kind of? Gelinas has barely shown he's ready for full time regular minutes, but for argument sake let's say he is, that still leaves one short...which most likely means we will NEED to sign another or are we going to put another Bambi out there and say he sucks for the next 150 games while he figures it out?

Trading one of our Dmen leaves TWO gapping holes that really can omly be filled by one of those over 30, overpriced players everyone loves to hate...and then some will say "it's OK for only two years"...like our team is going to dictate any kind of term to an UFA? More nuttiness.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

Probably... but it is also probably better than anything we iced at any point last year.

Agreed. I would at least enjoy a group that at least can skate.

 

[HBK27]

That article makes it seem like the scouts knew exactly how good Saad would be at the current moment. I don't think they anticipated that as much as the article makes it out to be.

And what if Joe Morrow turned out to be the defensive equivalent of Saad? Drafting isn't a science so its easy to pick one situation out and lambast the GM and/or scouts. Just like people use hindsight to keep bringing up the fact that the Devils took Tedenby over Carlson and so on.

There's certainly still a lot of unknowns from the situation - such as just how hard of a push the scouts made for Saad or how close Morrow was in their rankings. If Morrow was close and Shero felt that was a larger organizational need, I could see overruling the scouts. The scout could also be making a bigger deal of the pick than it was at the time given how things turned out with Saad vs. Morrow.

Still, the scouting department gets paid a lot of money to put together this information on prospects and heavily influence these calls. Pittsburgh's draft record was not good during Shero's tenure there and a lot of us wondered how involved Shero was in making the decisions vs. the scouting department and at least in this case Shero appeared to overrule their call and made a very bad decision.

 

[JimEIV]

I wonder if those sames scouts that were so sure about Saad advocated for Angelo Esposito also?

Or Beau Bennett over Hayes, Kuznetdov, Coyle, Etem or Nelson for that matter...

We probably won't get that story though.

 

[njdevil26]

I am okay with getting Paul Martin or Johnny Oduya back.

Greene-Larsson
Martin/Oduya-Severson
Gelinas-Merrill

looks solid to me.

 

[Devil X]

Adding a vet like Oduya or Martin to place in that second pairing is a smart move. Both those guys can easily play top 4 minutes and protect either Severson or Larrson (but Larrson is getting to the point that he doesnt need protecting).

It was also allow Merrill (who is underrated on the bored) to anchor the 3rd pairing which in his development is a better move.

Id take either but term is a factor as well.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

I wonder if those sames scouts that were so sure about Saad advocated for Angelo Esposito also?

Or Beau Bennett over Hayes, Kuznetdov, Coyle, Etem or Nelson for that matter...

We probably won't get that story though.

The fact that Saad dropped as far as he did was absurd.

 

[JimEIV]

The fact that Saad dropped as far as he did was absurd.

Sure, but the article was an obvious hit piece. It was a shot at Shero's decision making largely without context and mainly because he isn't the Penguins GM any longer.

You have a couple previous drafts where the penguins pretty much struck out on forwards and this writer wants to talk about the ONE that everyone passed on twice to make a point....that is ludicrous.

 

[theoptimist]

I am okay with getting Paul Martin or Johnny Oduya back.

Greene-Larsson
Martin/Oduya-Severson
Gelinas-Merrill

looks solid to me.

Merrill isn't a guy you put on a third pairing. He needs top 4 minutes.

Merrill should be traded. I'd hate to lose him, but an upgrade at F position is past overdue.

 

[theoptimist]

Gelinas is a perfect candidate to keep. He likely won't command a ton of $$$ because he'll be a middle 6 defenseman for a while.

It also keep PK units honest when we're on the PP.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

Gelinas is a perfect candidate to keep. He likely won't command a ton of $$$ because he'll be a middle 6 defenseman for a while.

It also keep PK units honest when we're on the PP.

The other thing is that I think his trade is relatively low.

 

[GhostofKenKlee]

Ryder 6 goals - 47 games
Clowe 1 goal -13 games
Havlat 5 goals -40 games
Zubrus 4 goals - 74 games
Gionta 5 goals - 61 games
5 players 21 goals 235 games

That is a freakin joke.


Matteau had a goal in 7 games this season which is better than any of that hot mess about above..he's got 2 goals in 24 career games which is a better pace than Zubrus has this season.

Ryder had 6 goals in 47 games Boucher had 3 in 34 piecemeal games over 2 seasons, many of those games were less than 10 minutes it's hardly any different and I haven't looked but I'd bet the goals per/60 are pretty damn close...

Part of what killed the Devils this past season until DeBoer and even after was how the players on this team were not competent at all. Even if they played to their career averages and what they did the season before.

You get a coach who can press the right buttons and get guys playing to their abilities is a huge stride to being better.

 

[HBK27]

I am okay with getting Paul Martin or Johnny Oduya back.

Greene-Larsson
Martin/Oduya-Severson
Gelinas-Merrill

looks solid to me.

I'd be happy to bring Oduya or Martin back as long as they were willing to take a 2 or 3 year deal. Either one of these guys would likely make Merrill or Gelinas expandable for help up front. Even though Merrill likely deserves top 4 minutes, I don't think it would be bad to have him anchoring the 3rd pairing, especially since the minutes would probably be rather evenly distributed among the pairings moreso than other teams that lean on a top pairing more than the Devils do. Could still see Merrill getting 17-18 minutes a night.

I also think one of the other young d-men is going to make a push in camp for a roster spot - whether it be Helgeson or Hrabarenka. I would actually prefer that Shero hold off on dealing Merril or Gelinas until closer to when the season starts so he can see these guys first hand, see how some of the other prospects are developing & competing for roster spots (both on D and up front) and teams that are potential trade partners see how their rosters start shaping up.

I'm just not sure if Oduya or Martin would come back to NJ and if there are any other defensemen worth chasing on the free agent market, knowing how much depth there is in the pipeline.

I'd have no problem going with the guys we already have - let them continue to develop & eventually you can clear room when Santini or Jacobs is ready.

Greene - Larsson
Merrill - Severson
Gelinas - Helgeson/Hrabarenka

Extra: Harrold or Fraser

 

[HBK27]

Gelinas is a perfect candidate to keep. He likely won't command a ton of $$$ because he'll be a middle 6 defenseman for a while.

It also keep PK units honest when we're on the PP.

Nobody else on the team has close the the cannon shot that Gelinas has. Would be tough to replace on the PP and while Merrill is probably the safer bet for the future, Gelinas might have the most upside if he can put it all together. I'd rather hold on to both for a while and see what they can do with a new coaching staff before shipping anybody out.