Devils team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part IV

[Unknown Caller]

My guess is the first round pick is being traded for a goalie. Better it is maybe the less they have to give up besides the pick.

This team has shown you time and time again that they don't have it. Even if they squeak in, Carolina is going to crush them again.

Make a trade or two is possible, get some assets because you're going to lose some in the offseason due to giving up a decent amount for a goalie.

The issue is there aren’t many goalies available worth trading a top 10 pick for.

Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, and Sorokin are locked up long term and aren’t moving. Young guys like Demko, Askarov and Wallstedt aren’t getting traded either.

That basically leaves you with Saros and Markstrom. You just lost out on one playoff run with Markstrom and he’s a year older, so is he worth a top 10 pick?

Saros is the only one left standing who’s worth it. And he’s a UFA after next season.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Attempt 16

 

[forceten]

This team is way too talented to get a top 10 pick. If they just run Daws/Schmid/Vanecek the rest of the way, all bets are off though. They could continue to outshoot teams 50-17 and lose on a nightly basis.

Even so, a top 10 pick doesn't do anything for the organization. Outside of the top 5-7 picks, the draft is generally a complete crapshoot. We're going to draft some kid who will stay in Liiga or the WHL until 2027 and then take 2-3 more years to develop into an effective NHL player if they even pan out.

Yeah picks at this point should be thought of more as trade assets than guys who'll actually contribute to the big club anyway. Fitz might even be trading a second of 'his' first-rounders in 2020 soon.

I agree with you both. A top 10 pick is certainly not guaranteed to step in and play. But HAVING IT, well, it gives us options. We take the pick if someone falls. We trade the pick. We package it and a top prospect like Holtz for a young goalie like Askarov. I'd rather that than play out this season to finish 9th and have a crappy pick. Apparently the draft stock falls off considerably at 15 or so.

 

[aero8279]

The issue is there aren’t many goalies available worth trading a top 10 pick for.

Hellebuyck, Shesterkin, and Sorokin are locked up long term and aren’t moving. Young guys like Demko, Askarov and Wallstedt aren’t getting traded either.

That basically leaves you with Saros and Markstrom. You just lost out on one playoff run with Markstrom and he’s a year older, so is he worth a top 10 pick?

Saros is the only one left standing who’s worth it. And he’s a UFA after next season.

Teams know they need a goalie badly. They will have to pay a premium. Ulmark, Markstrom, or Saros, a first is going the other way.

Any trade, you'd think they would extend the player before or right after it's made.

 

[Unknown Caller]

Teams know they need a goalie badly. They will have to pay a premium. Ulmark, Markstrom, or Saros, a first is going the other way.

Any trade, you'd think they would extend the player before or right after it's made.

Ullmark and Saros are both UFAs after next year, so you're not going to move a top 10-15 pick for a rental. Maybe with an extension, but you have to be comfortable giving big term and money to a 30 year old.

You would also be giving up a high to mid 1st knowing you could get the guy for free in 12 months.

 

[forceten]

If we are trading a top 10-15 pick plus a guy like Holtz for a goalie, I don't want Markstrom. I probably don't even want Ullmark or Saros. I'd prefer the younger guy. We'd be trading a LOT of futures for a LOT of today and a little of yesterday, but not much future.

 

[Forge]

Ullmark and Saros are both UFAs after next year, so you're not going to move a top 10-15 pick for a rental. Maybe with an extension, but you have to be comfortable giving big term and money to a 30 year old.

You would also be giving up a high to mid 1st knowing you could get the guy for free in 12 months.

I'd guess ullmark would be looking at 5 years, 5.75 - 6.

Saros reportedly wants the helle deal

 

[JrFischer54]

Would be fitting to win the draft lotto the year after bedard

 

[aero8279]

Ullmark and Saros are both UFAs after next year, so you're not going to move a top 10-15 pick for a rental. Maybe with an extension, but you have to be comfortable giving big term and money to a 30 year old.

You would also be giving up a high to mid 1st knowing you could get the guy for free in 12 months.

All true, but they need an actual good goalie for next season. You can't run this back or pick up a 1B goalie. They need a legit good starter who is a clear #1. They can't wait 12 more months for this to happen.

Next season could be just as terrible or worse running this back even with a new coach.

Do what you have to do so the next few years aren't a dumpster fire like almost the last decade has been.

 

[Triumph]

Markstrom is the obvious target if you believe in Daws and/or Schmid, if you don't, it's Saros, but Saros is obviously going to be much more difficult to get. It's very hard to know what Nashville is thinking about anything, but given what Askarov is doing, seems like they should be dealing Saros regardless.

 

[forceten]

Would be fitting to win the draft lotto the year after bedard

That would be 3 #1 picks sandwiched between or near generational talent. Celebrini is not a generational talent like McDavid or Bedard.

 

[Guadana]

I'd guess ullmark would be looking at 5 years, 5.75 - 6.

Saros reportedly wants the helle deal

Ullmark won Vezina, has nice track record and Hellebyuck example in front of his face. I believe he wants more.

That would be 3 #1 picks sandwiched between or near generational talent. Celebrini is not a generational talent like McDavid or Bedard.

Celebrini isnt Bedard but he is... at least very very nice player to have. Very very very nice.
Its not a time to dream about him. yet.

 

[theoptimist]

We have quite a few holes that need to be addressed this offseason.

- 3C that is hopefully a 2C that’s pushed down because of Nico/Jack. The answer isn’t Haula or Lazar.

- Legit bottom 6 contributors. Tierny, Nosek, Bastian, etc. are not good enough if we want depth scoring.

- Top four LD. Seigs hasn’t been that for almost two years now. Bahl is showing zero growth and keeps making the same mistakes over and over. FWIW I would make the move for Hanifin here but either way, it needs to be addressed.

- One maybe two goalies that can play the position. PLUS firing Dave Rogaine. Inexcusable we went into the year with the situation as it was. This needs to be figured out externally.

All of this + firing Lindy.

1. Chandler Stephenson or Sean Monahan (I'd play both with Jack, similar to the Haula/Jack combo from 22-23, depends on new coach)
2. Yakov Trenin, Haula, Mercer/Holtz (whichever is not traded) should be fine? Lazar, Mermaid, Bastian, whoever else make up the 4th. (Jake DeBrusk is a wildcard here and would give him whatever we are offering Toffoli)
3. Siegenthaler must go, not because he is not useful but 3.5M too large a price for a PK specialist. Hanifin would be nice, but depends on trade/contract terms. No clue what they are.
4. Goalie and team system are related? I know nothing about goaltending

The coach must be fired before any of the above take place. Preferably right when the season concludes. The new coach must be announced before July 1.

 

[forceten]

Ullmark won Vezina, has nice track record and Hellebyuck example in front of his face. I believe he wants more.

True. He's also huge like Markstrom. Next season, these goalie will be (or turn):

Ullmark: 31 (in July; he's 6'4")
Saros: 29 (turns 30 near season's end; he's 5'11")
Markstrom: 35 (in January; he's 6'6" and had meh seasons two of the last three years prior to this one)

Markstrom is f***ing out. No.

 

[Guadana]

1. Chandler Stephenson or Sean Monahan (I'd play both with Jack, similar to the Haula/Jack combo from 22-23, depends on new coach)
2. Yakov Trenin, Haula, Mercer/Holtz (whichever is not traded) should be fine? Lazar, Mermaid, Bastian, whoever else make up the 4th. (Jake DeBrusk is a wildcard here and would give him whatever we are offering Toffoli)
3. Siegenthaler must go, not because he is not useful but 3.5M too large a price for a PK specialist. Hanifin would be nice, but depends on trade/contract terms. No clue what they are.
4. Goalie and team system are related? I know nothing about goaltending

The coach must be fired before any of the above take place. Preferably right when the season concludes. The new coach must be announced before July 1.

Noesen.

Siegs should be okay third -sometimes second pair D. Need to find top-4 LD.

 

[Forge]

Ullmark won Vezina, has nice track record and Hellebyuck example in front of his face. I believe he wants more.

It's a tough spot because he's started 40 games in a season once. And in that season, he broke down at the end of the year.

He may get a little more, but I think his lack of workload history probably caps his earnings. I don't think he's gets anything starting with a 7.

If that's what we wants, I think Boston probably gets cut down at the knees in trade negotiations

 

[theoptimist]

Noesen.

Siegs should be okay third -sometimes second pair D. Need to find top-4 LD.

I always liked Noesen. I agree Siegs is strong 3LD, but if we are making a trade for top 4 LHD, I think he will go the other way with other pieces.

 

[Guadana]

It's a tough spot because he's started 40 games in a season once. And in that season, he broke down at the end of the year.

He may get a little more, but I think his lack of workload history probably caps his earnings. I don't think he's gets anything starting with a 7.

If that's what we wants, I think Boston probably gets cut down at the knees in trade negotiations

Overall its more about who is ready to offer more and how much. This was never about "skills and results -> salary". Always someone ready to over pay. Or not.

I always liked Noesen. I agree Siegs is strong 3LD, but if we are making a trade for top 4 LHD, I think he will go the other way with other pieces.

As an option may be. Will see. If we will trade him, I would prefer to find better third pair D over Bahl and would prefer to trade Bahl. I want as a better team as we can. Devils lost two good seasons in potential in 22 and 24. Its a waste of time of Nico and Dougie. And Jack.

 

[Forge]

The tricky things about a markstrom trade is if it's really going to involve a roster player like holtz or Mercer (I don't think there's much of a chance that it's Mercer, but never say never and a lot of flames fans still think that's happening so I'll include him) is who replaces them in the lineup?

Like, we're already running Chris flipping Tierney out there. Taking out another forward is rough

 

[forceten]

Markstrom will turn 35 midseason next year. 35! THIRTY FIVE. Why are we still talking about this when we're clearly not in contention this year.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

We had Tatar last year, Toffoli was Tatar’s (better) replacement. There’s a pretty big hole in the top 6 if Toffoli goes.

One of two things needs to happen: Keep Toff and fire Ruff. Find a coach that has a system Toff can work in. Or trade Toff and find a player or players that can work in Ruffs hair brained nonsense system. Extending Toff and keeping Ruff is a recipe for another disaster season.

 

[Forge]

Markstrom will turn 35 midseason next year. 35! THIRTY FIVE. Why are we still talking about this when we're clearly not in contention this year.

The devils clearly love him, age be damned

 

[forceten]

The devils clearly love him, age be damned

I mean, get Brodeur to stop eating so many god damned donuts and put him in if age doesn't matter.

 

[JimEIV]

I mean, get Brodeur to stop eating so many god damned donuts and put him in if age doesn't matter.

It might work. But I don't think he's giving up the donuts.

 

[britdevil]

Markstrom will turn 35 midseason next year. 35! THIRTY FIVE. Why are we still talking about this when we're clearly not in contention this year.

I guess the logic is you have him for two playoff runs (2025/2026), bring along Daws/Schmid.

Would prefer retention, but Calgary are tight ass mfs.