Devils Team Discussion (current team/player news and notes) ‎2014-2015 Part XIV

[JimEIV]

Just in order of scoring Top 12...believe it or not...Bobby Holik might be the most underrated Devil in history...the guy epitomized Devils hockey and was a pure beast.

Patrik Elias
John MacLean
Kirk Muller
Bobby Holik
Scott Gomez
Aaron Broten
Zach Parise
Petr Sykora
Jamie Langenbrunner
Travis Zajac
Randy McKay
Pat Verbeek

 

[tailfins]

top 10 players, forwards, whatever is always tough. top 10 for a season? top 10 for talent? top 10 while with the Devils?

From a top forwards while with the Devils, my take is (specific order not that important):

Undisputed:
- Elias
- MacLean

Most would agree:
- Holik (2 cups, 1 cup finals)
- Madden (2 cups, 1 cup finals, Selke)
- Gomez (2 cups, 1 cup finals, Calder)
- Claude Lemieux (2 cups, Conn Smythe)
- Langenbrunner (1 cup, captain)

Great, questions on amount of time with the Devils:
- Gionta (6.5 years, 1 cup)
- Stephane Richer (5+ years, 1 cup)
- Arnott (5+ years, 1 cup, 1 cup finals)
- Mogilny (1+ years, 1 cup, 1 cup finals)
- Parise (6+ years, cup finals, captain)
- Kovy (4 years, 1 cup finals)
- Muller (7 years)
- Verbeek (5 years)

Of these guys, it's interesting to note draft positions:
1st round: #1 Kovy, #2 Muller, #6 MacLean, #7 Arnott, #10 Holik, #17 Parise, #27 Gomez

2nd round: Elias, Richer, Lemieux, Langenbrunner

3rd round: Verbeek, Gionta

5th round: Mogilny

UFA: Madden

So, more than half of (what I called) the Devils' best forwards came from after the 1st round, and only 5 of the 15 I mentioned are top 10 picks. Obviously, I'm not saying top 10 picks aren't useful - the Devils have only used a top 10 pick on a forward six times, and two of them ended up on this list. But, it does show that our current prospects can still blossom despite draft order and that there's a reasonable case to be made for picking up more late first round picks vs. trading up for a top 5 (but not top 2) selection.

 

[JimEIV]

top 10 players, forwards, whatever is always tough. top 10 for a season? top 10 for talent? top 10 while with the Devils?

From a top forwards while with the Devils, my take is (specific order not that important):

Undisputed:
- Elias
- MacLean

Most would agree:
- Holik (2 cups, 1 cup finals)
- Madden (2 cups, 1 cup finals, Selke)
- Gomez (2 cups, 1 cup finals, Calder)
- Claude Lemieux (2 cups, Conn Smythe)
- Langenbrunner (1 cup, captain)

Great, questions on amount of time with the Devils:
- Gionta (6.5 years, 1 cup)
- Stephane Richer (5+ years, 1 cup)
- Arnott (5+ years, 1 cup, 1 cup finals)
- Mogilny (1+ years, 1 cup, 1 cup finals)
- Parise (6+ years, cup finals, captain)
- Kovy (4 years, 1 cup finals)
- Muller (7 years)
- Verbeek (5 years)

Of these guys, it's interesting to note draft positions:
1st round: #1 Kovy, #2 Muller, #6 MacLean, #7 Arnott, #10 Holik, #17 Parise, #27 Gomez

2nd round: Elias, Richer, Lemieux, Langenbrunner

3rd round: Verbeek, Gionta

5th round: Mogilny

UFA: Madden

So, more than half of (what I called) the Devils' best forwards came from after the 1st round, and only 5 of the 15 I mentioned are top 10 picks. Obviously, I'm not saying top 10 picks aren't useful - the Devils have only used a top 10 pick on a forward six times, and two of them ended up on this list. But, it does show that our current prospects can still blossom despite draft order and that there's a reasonable case to be made for picking up more late first round picks vs. trading up for a top 5 (but not top 2) selection.

The concept of this post makes me happy. This has never been a celebrated organization and we have never had celebrated players...it's kind of the essence of New Jersey itself...we are always bigger than the press release.

 

[Devils Dominion]

Since we aren't looking at scoring alone, how Brylin isn't anywhere on your list is a shame, more so considering some of the guys that are listed

Sarge would be in the next group or maybe in the under consideration.

 

[Emperoreddy]

TG getting in a small Twitter spat over whether Lou has ever sold before.

TG says yes. In 2011.

 

[NJDevs26]

They haven't been in position to sell for a very long time. People complain about the last two years (and he should have traded Fayne at least since we had a glut of d-men and he had zero interest in re-signing him), but they were in a borderline spot. Most borderline teams don't sell.

Even 2011 was a limited sell though. Langs was ticketed out of town in the preseason but wouldn't waive his no-trade until the Titanic started sinking. Arnott was the only real sell. They didn't sell Greene who was a FA.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They haven't been in position to sell for a very long time. People complain about the last two years (and he should have traded Fayne at least since we had a glut of d-men and he had zero interest in re-signing him), but they were in a borderline spot. Most borderline teams don't sell.

Even 2011 was a limited sell though. Langs was ticketed out of town in the preseason but wouldn't waive his no-trade until the Titanic started sinking. Arnott was the only real sell. They didn't sell Greene who was a FA.

Why I don't expect a large sell unless the buyers are that desperate.

Zids I can see if he waives. He will try to move Ryder and fail because no one will want him. I don't know if he trades Jagr or keeps him to resign him. Guess it depends on the potential offers.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Speaking of moving Arnott.

We got Dave Steckel and a 2nd round pick from Washington for him. We flipped that pick to Minnesota in part of the deal that got us Zidlicky. Minnesota used that pick to select Raphael Bussieres at 46th overall. We took Severson with our next pick at 60th overall.

 

[not a troll]

Hey guys, who would you say has been the team's scapegoat this year?

 

[devilsblood]

Hey guys, who would you say has been the team's scapegoat this year?

Deboer. Sal honorable mention.

Ryder and Zub's are good candidates for guys currently with the team.

 

[JimEIV]

Deboer. Sal honorable mention.

Ryder and Zub's are good candidates for guys currently with the team.

I agree with this analysis.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Steve Bernier 13-14 compared to 14-15:

13-14 -
Shots Per Game: 1.33
CorsiRel: -0.2
Teams Shooting Percentage while Bernier is on the ice: 4.2%

14-15 -
Shots Per Game: 1.33
CorsiRel: 1.3
Teams Shooting Percentage while Bernier is on the ice: 9.9%

Pretty funny. Bernier is not playing much different, he's just been the beneficiary of his teammates shooting and some lucky bounces on his own this season. With that said, he was not as bad as many people think last year.

 

[Tundra]

Steve Bernier 13-14 compared to 14-15:

13-14 -
Shots Per Game: 1.33
CorsiRel: -0.2
Teams Shooting Percentage while Bernier is on the ice: 4.2%

14-15 -
Shots Per Game: 1.33
CorsiRel: 1.3
Teams Shooting Percentage while Bernier is on the ice: 9.9%

Pretty funny. Bernier is not playing much different, he's just been the beneficiary of his teammates shooting and some lucky bounces on his own this season. With that said, he was not as bad as many people think last year.

Yup. Bernier was definitely scapegoated for larger problems.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

Everyone hated Bernier because he wouldn't produce on the second line. Sometimes it's easy for me to forget just how oblivious Deboer seemed sometimes.

 

[SeidoN]

Deboer. Sal honorable mention.

Ryder and Zub's are good candidates for guys currently with the team.

none of these guys are scapegoats. theyve all been terrible. totally deserved

Schneider is the #1 scapegoat

 

[NJDevs26]

Everyone hated Bernier because he wouldn't produce on the second line. Sometimes it's easy for me to forget just how oblivious Deboer seemed sometimes.

That and he started the season like -10 in the first month. When even Lou is taking a public shot at Bernier you know the guy had a bad year, no scapegoating there.

 

[JimEIV]

When a team sucks it's never just 4th liners, goaltending or bottom pairing Dmen, but that seems to always draw everyone's attention.

I had an old manager that used say **** roles down hill...if guys in key roles are garbage, there is no hope for the soldiers.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Harrold.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Hey guys, who would you say has been the team's scapegoat this year?

Not sure what you are asking exactly... if you are saying 'scapegoat' as in: Takes the blame (not entirely justly) for the team's failure...

I think Brunner and DeBoer fit that category.
Edit: RG mentioned Harrold - and yeah, all of the footsoldiers with limited ability regularly take it on the nose in here.

If you are asking 'who is to blame' -lots of blame to pass around.

Certainly DeBoer never built any momentum.

I don't think you can include guys like Zubrus, as they are end-of-shelf-life and I expected nothing, nor damaged goods like Clowe.

Ryder's streakiness has turned into slumpiness - so he's a disappointment but I didn't expect much. If he goes on a run and ends up with 17 goals, well... that's where I'd put him anyway. Same thing with Brunner - didn't expect much.

I think Schneider needed to be great and was only average or sub-par early in the season.

I think Zajac and Elias are probably most to blame -because there are two of your expected top point producers, and they have been nothing short of awful.

 

[billingtons ghost]

none of these guys are scapegoats. theyve all been terrible. totally deserved

Schneider is the #1 scapegoat

How so? He was crap at the beginning of the season when he needed to be great - and although he's been ALOT better... he still has never been the 'Vezina in 70 games, baby' guy we need.

 

[GeNeXt]

Hopefully Jagr completely misses the Western swing. If so, he'll have a 19 day break. It's rare for an uninjured player to have that long of a mid season break, unless it's an Olympic year.

He can get some needed rest, comeback and possibly tear it up in February. Which would increase his value leading up to the March 2nd trade deadline.

 

[Game Breaker]

On Opening Night, I sat next to 2 guys about my age who said they live 5 minutes from NVMC. They said it's a pain to get to Newark but they love the Devils and know a lot of guys from their town who are also big Devils fans.

A few years ago I joined in a 200 or so person tailgate of Devils fans outside NVMC. It was awesome, chicks were doing keg stands and the general camaraderie was unreal. I think that was the game the Devils scored 2 goals in the final 2 minutes to win 2-1. The place was at least 40% Devils fans.

That was one of the most fun games I ever went to, mainly because of all of the pregame craziness. Made it on tv during one of the internissions and got light headed and nearly passed out after Zid's go-ahead goal. What a fun day!

I can just picture Conte the night before the draft, being like "well better get ready for tomorrow *opens google and youtube*"

El. Oh. El.

 

[tailfins]

If you are asking 'who is to blame' -lots of blame to pass around.

Certainly DeBoer never built any momentum.

I think Schneider needed to be great and was only average or sub-par early in the season.

I think Zajac and Elias are probably most to blame -because there are two of your expected top point producers, and they have been nothing short of awful.

Best players have to be the best players, and too often that's been missing for the Devils. Henrique, Zajac, Greene, and Schneider are our main issues. The early season PK should be added in - which seems to be Deboer / the coaches fault for poor scheme and personnel usage.

Henrique's done fine, but he hasn't taken the next step. The Devils need him to make other players around him better, and right now he doesn't.

Zajac is the same as Henrique, but with less production. A 30 year old complementary piece. Is it too late for him to be anything more?

Greene has played well after some early season (PK) trouble, but the zero goals are an issue. His PP usage has shifted dramatically, plus the overall team possession numbers are in the toilet, so context counts for a lot. Still, Greene hasn't been able to step into a role where he can dictate the game when he's on ice. Another complementary piece.

Schneider is a very competent goalie, but so far hasn't shown the ability to be dominant. Over the past 20 years, the Devils have relied on a goaltender who can impose his will on games. So far, Schneider doesn't seem like that guy.

The Devils are locked into these four guys for a while. The next couple of seasons are all about how far these four can take us.

Edit: Cammy should be included in the "core", but I think he's performing. He does make line mates better. The team seems to feed off his energy when he's in the lineup. But, clearly he needs help.

 

[glenwo2]

Best players have to be the best players, and too often that's been missing for the Devils. Henrique, Zajac, Greene, and Schneider are our main issues. The early season PK should be added in - which seems to be Deboer / the coaches fault for poor scheme and personnel usage.

Henrique's done fine, but he hasn't taken the next step. The Devils need him to make other players around him better, and right now he doesn't.

Zajac is the same as Henrique, but with less production. A 30 year old complementary piece. Is it too late for him to be anything more?

Greene has played well after some early season (PK) trouble, but the zero goals are an issue. His PP usage has shifted dramatically, plus the overall team possession numbers are in the toilet, so context counts for a lot. Still, Greene hasn't been able to step into a role where he can dictate the game when he's on ice. Another complementary piece.

Schneider is a very competent goalie, but so far hasn't shown the ability to be dominant. Over the past 20 years, the Devils have relied on a goaltender who can impose his will on games. So far, Schneider doesn't seem like that guy.

The Devils are locked into these four guys for a while. The next couple of seasons are all about how far these four can take us.

You're right. If anything, Kinkaid seems to do the "imposing" from time to time. Well....it also helps that unlike Cory, he can actually swallow the puck when it hits him instead of letting it ricochet off of him like a pinball....

 

[NJDevs26]

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