Post-Game Talk: Devils only have one line; lose 3-2 (Poll)

[Bleedred]

If there's even a remote possibility to get a 2nd round pick or an average defensive dman who can play the right side, I'd pull the trigger ASAP. There's just no way that someone out there is sniffing enough bath salts to give us a 1st round pick or a bluechip prospect for Zacha.

Agree completely. No one is giving us something like that for Zacha.

I wonder if we can get a decent goalie for him? That's been something I've been tossing around for a while now.

 

[Unknown Caller]

I have a sneaking suspicion that his play fell off the cliff because of preliminary in season contract talks...No proof at all...Just and a very strong hunch.

Yes, it was the non-existent in season contract talks that made his production drop. Not the fact that the guy was shooting like 35% to start the season with replacement level 5v5 underlying numbers for his entire career.

 

[NJDfan86]

Doubtful, I'm pretty sure they said on the broadcast that NHL teams have played a record number of goalies this year thus far - I don't think anyone is giving up anyone better than we have in house this season.

Buffalo might not have a goalie for their next game lol.

 

[JimEIV]

Defense only matters when you are a PPG player or better, when you are not a PPG or better player then all that matters is points.

Clear?

He is not particularly good defensively...I mean he is the best defensively of our forwards...But that is really not saying much.

 

[Bleedred]

Doubtful, I'm pretty sure they said on the broadcast that NHL teams have played a record number of goalies this year thus far - I don't think anyone is giving up anyone better than we have in house this season.

Buffalo might not have a goalie for their next game lol.

That's true that teams have played a record number of goalies this year, but fingers crossed that the covid protocol is changed for next year or at least stays what it's now scheduled to be starting at the conclusion of the all star break, you won't see as many goalies used around the league next year.

If guys aren't getting tested every day and don't end up on the covid list for a runny nose or no symptoms at all then I can't see that happening next year again.

I think we're seeing a record number of players around the league of all positions this season period, not just the goalie position particularly.

 

[NJDfan86]

That's true that teams have played a record number of goalies this year, but fingers crossed that the covid protocol is changed for next year or at least stays what it's now scheduled to be starting at the conclusion of the all star break, you won't see as many goalies used around the league next year.

If guys aren't getting tested every day and don't end up on the covid list for a runny nose or no symptoms at all then I can't see that happening next year again.

I think we're seeing a record number of players around the league of all positions this season period, not just the goalie position particularly.

Yea, the second half should be better overall but it's harder for find NHL capable goalies than skaters so I expect the goalie market to remain tight.

 

[JimEIV]

Yes, it was the non-existent in season contract talks that made his production drop. Not the fact that the guy was shooting like 35% to start the season with replacement level 5v5 underlying numbers for his entire career.

Ohhhh So the last 19 games is the real indication... not the previous 20 or the 50 last year? It's this 19 that is revealing the truth?

I need to mind erase the previous 70 and focus on the last 19 to find the truth is what you are saying....Makes a lot of sense.

Look as I have said I am not defending Zacha he has been bad and invisible... the inconsistencies are obvious. But I don't think you release the selectiveness you are exercising to prove a point here .

 

[NJDevs26]

Read the chart wrong

 

[JimEIV]

You do realize the second worst of those five numbers has almost twice as many points as Zacha over the same span?

I honestly don't follow? The second worst is Sharangovich...16 points in 36 games. What do you mean by has almost twice as many points as Zacha over the same span

 

[NJDevs26]

I honestly don't follow? The second worst is Sharangovich...16 points in 36 games. What do you mean by has almost twice as many points as Zacha over the same span

I assumed the 8 was Zacha, but you were posting full season numbers which is Kuokkanen so I edited my post. I doubt anyone would argue with you he's been dead weight this whole season.

You do realize that Zacha has three goals and four assists over his last 25 games though? That's pretty dead weight for a guy getting middle six minutes. He had a hot start early and went back to his early-career form after. It's laughable putting Nico's numbers in that chart when talking about dead weight considering he's pacing for a 50+ point season.

 

[JimEIV]

I assumed the 8 was Zacha, but you were posting full season numbers which is Kuokkanen. I doubt anyone would argue with you he's been dead weight this whole season.

Yeah my post was purposely ambiguous...It was to say there is a lot of dead weight on this team but only some seem to raise the pitchforks...

Sharangovich literally has had the same season as Zacha in reverse. Kuokanen has done nothing and Boqvist has done less than Kuokanen...Tatar is probably worst culprit of them all...But it seems Zacha is the only one that can draw the frothing mouths from the crowd.

 

[NJDevs26]

Sharangovich got a lot of ripping early too...and I don't think anyone's really sold on him or think he's breaking out now. Kuokkanen and Boqvist I agree have been poor. Tatar's whatever.

People rip on Zacha more cause he's obviously capable of more, we've seen long stretches of him producing and other long stretches like this of him doing squadoosh. There's nothing that raises ire more than an obvious underachiever or a guy that constantly needs the spurs put to him.

 

[NJDfan86]

Yeah my post was purposely ambiguous...It was to say there is a lot of dead weight on this team but only some seem to raise the pitchforks...

Sharangovich literally has had the same season as Zacha in reverse. Kuokanen has done nothing and Boqvist has done less than Kuokanen...Tatar is probably worst culprit of them all...But it seems Zacha is the only one that can draw the frothing mouths from the crowd.

I mean Zacha is his 7th season of doing mostly nothing with this team, at least the others are only on their first or second (or whatever we count Boqvist as).

The only one of these players that is really mildly interesting for the future is Sharangovich.

 

[Bleedred]

Yeah my post was purposely ambiguous...It was to say there is a lot of dead weight on this team but only some seem to raise the pitchforks...

Sharangovich literally has had the same season as Zacha in reverse. Kuokanen has done nothing and Boqvist has done less than Kuokanen...Tatar is probably worst culprit of them all...But it seems Zacha is the only one that can draw the frothing mouths from the crowd.

I think there's only one poster here that even likes B0qvist anymore in the slightest.

For what it's worth, he was nearly as bad as Zacha was last night. And I used to think ''Boqvist looks like a nice, responsible player, he just can't score''. In the last month or so when he's played he's been just absolute deadweight and last night he was the only player on either team that I thought rivaled Zacha for worst player on the ice. He literally looked like they picked a fan out of the stands or a fan that won a contest to dress and play a game for us. Wasn't he even tied to Nico's leg for a few games earlier in the month and he couldn't finish for shit and kept ending scoring chances the line would get?

We can't stop giving him chances soon enough. He might even be playing in Europe by next year if he knows he's gonna yet again be spending most of the year either in the AHL or as a healthy scratch/taxi squad in the NHL.

 

[JimEIV]

I mean Zacha is his 7th season of doing mostly nothing with this team, at least the others are only on their first or second (or whatever we count Boqvist as).

The only one of these players that is really mildly interesting for the future is Sharangovich.

Sharangovich, Kuokkenen, McLeod, and Boqvist are 1 year younger than Zacha. Bastian only 8 months younger...

Again I am not here to defend Zacha's recent play...But I do think he's judged by a different standard.

Edit: AND...I think it is completely fair to judge a #6 overall by a different standard...As long as you are willing to it for other high picks as well.

 

[NJDfan86]

Sharangovich, Kuokkenen, McLeod, and Boqvist are 1 year younger than Zacha. Bastian only 8 months younger...

Again I am not here to defend Zacha's recent play...But I do think he's judged by a different standard.

I mean calling one of those player "mildly interesting" isn't really some kind of ringing endorsement. Zacha and Sharangovich are the only ones bringing anything we should be interested in (good shot) to the table, and Sharangovich is cheaper so you would rather play that out.

Maybe Zacha figures it out somewhere, but it is clear that it won't be here.

 

[My3Sons]

Sharangovich, Kuokkenen, McLeod, and Boqvist are 1 year younger than Zacha. Bastian only 8 months younger...

Again I am not here to defend Zacha's recent play...But I do think he's judged by a different standard.

Edit: AND...I think it is completely fair to judge a #6 overall by a different standard...As long as you are willing to it for other high picks as well.

I just don't see the double standard. I think he's held to the same standard that they all are. The guys showing effort to play hard are given leeway by the board even if the scoring isn't there. The guys who don't seem to play hard and may shy away from hard areas or physical play get criticized absent significant scoring. That's the standard I see the board applying. If Zacha did the non-scoring things that Nico, Bastian, McLeod, Siegenthaler, Mercer, and even Johnsson (to some extent) did he'd be a valued member of the team to most on these boards as I read the varied comments. He doesn't. It's just not him for whatever reason.

 

[NJDfan86]

Sharangovich, Kuokkenen, McLeod, and Boqvist are 1 year younger than Zacha. Bastian only 8 months younger...

Again I am not here to defend Zacha's recent play...But I do think he's judged by a different standard.

Edit: AND...I think it is completely fair to judge a #6 overall by a different standard...As long as you are willing to it for other high picks as well.

I mean based on your prescribed standard Zacha is a disgrace, no?

 

[JimEIV]

I mean based on your prescribed standard Zacha is a disgrace, no?

Well it's hard to judge because the circumstances are so different.

Zacha had 24 points in 70 games as 19 year old rookie and former #6 overall...He averaged 14:18 of ice time

Jack was a #1 overall with 21 points in 61 games as an 18 year old getting 15:51 of ice time and producing the worst ppg from a former #1 overall in more than 20 years...

After two years and 117 games Jack had 52 points - Pavel 159 games 49 points...

So my "prescribed standard" was based on his 36 point pace after his first two years which was the absolute worst from #1 overall since Patrick Stefan... So does Pavel's 25 point pace reach disgrace level? I am not sure maybe?

Sure why not? But he wasn't a first overall...No one ever called him a generational player or a superstar...I don't recall a Gatorade contract or front page features...I recall Zacha viewed as a cog in an empty stable of forwards....

 

[NJDfan86]

Well it's hard to judge because the circumstances are so different.

Zacha had 24 points in 70 games as 19 year old rookie and former #6 overall...He averaged 14:18 of ice time

Jack was a #1 overall with 21 points in 61 games as an 18 year old getting 15:51 of ice time and producing the worst ppg from a former #1 overall in more than 20 years...

After two years and 117 games Jack had 52 points - Pavel 159 games 49 points...

So my "prescribed standard" was based on his 36 point pace after his first two years which was the absolute worst from #1 overall since Patrick Stefan... So does Pavel's 25 point pace reach disgrace level? I am not sure maybe?

Sure why not? But he wasn't a first overall...No one ever called him a generational player or a superstar...I don't recall a Gatorade contract or front page features...I recall Zacha viewed as a cog in an empty stable of forwards....

Might be some room there though, maybe only a 1st overall could be considered a disgrace? Maybe slots 2 to 10 are just extreme failures? IDK just spitballing here.

 

[JimEIV]

Might be some room there though, maybe only a 1st overall could be considered a disgrace? Maybe slots 2 to 10 are just extreme failures? IDK just spitballing here.

I think if you did a 20 year comparison every #6 overall and Pavel was the worst...maybe?

 

[MadDevil]

Might be some room there though, maybe only a 1st overall could be considered a disgrace? Maybe slots 2 to 10 are just extreme failures? IDK just spitballing here.

There is only room when it comes to picks made when Lou was still around. Completely Shero draft picks automatically get a jump from disappointment to disgrace.