Devils minor league club to NJ

[Nightsquad]

Among the discussion of a new arena in Patterson is the possibility the Devils might once again explore a move of their minor league operations to nearby Newark. Should be interesting how this "proposal" plays out, and if there are any huge incentives to the organization moving the club closer despite a no lose deal in Binghampton.

Paterson, NJ Developers Think An Arena Can Help Save A Struggling Shopping Mall - Sports Talk Florida - N

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[JMCx4]

It's the 21st Century, folks. NOTHING can help save a struggling shopping mall.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The Devils are one of the organizations most notoriously apathetic towards their minor league affiliates. They burned Lowell and Albany with their general indifference, I doubt the trend will break with a move in-state. The entire proposal seems like they're grasping at straws. A 12,000 seater is far too big for an arena, they're hoping the Devils would put their affiliate there despite no Devils presence at all in the planning, and finally they're putting the arena in a shopping mall. Doesn't seem like they have their ducks in a row at all on this one. Not a surprise from the supposed armpit of America.

 

[mmazz22]

Pretty misleading headline in your post. No where did it say NJ was interested in even exploring this situation.

Too Barclay add Binghamton to the list of cities they have destroyed. We have been the farm team of Boston, LA, Pitt, Hartford, Washington, NYR, Ottawa and NJ in 37 AHL seasons. NJ is by far the worst parent team ever. I have missed more games in the last 2 years than the 35 years before combined. Awful.

 

[royals119]

Sounds like the developer is dreaming big. The new owner of a mall around here tried getting the township and school to give him big tax breaks to redevelop the property too. They didn't go for it, so he is going to tear down the main mall structure and just leave the few stores with exterior access that are still open in place. Long term they hope to add townhouses and a hotel with a few "pad sites" for retail or restaurants.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I personally think the Canucks should bring their AHL team west and the Devils put their team in Utica.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I personally think the Canucks should bring their AHL team west and the Devils put their team in Utica.

Not at all. There aren’t any enticing markets out west for a Canucks affiliate. Utica offers some of the best travel and support in the AHL. Abbotsford or any other BC market would have the worst travel in the league, their closest road game would be a 20 hour bus ride. There’s no markets, or at least good ones, in a California or anywhere else in the US.

Utica’s furthest in-conference trip is closer than Abbotsford would be. Vancouver, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Calgary, Edmonton and all the other teams with their affiliates far away have said they prioritize travel over ease of call ups. Less time traveling means more time on the ice, in the gym, and sleeping in their own beds. There’s no good or realistic markets in California or anywhere else close to other Pacific division teams. And Utica supports their AHL team because the NHL steam cares. NJ notoriously doesn’t care, they wouldn’t be a good match.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

Not at all. There aren’t any enticing markets out west for a Canucks affiliate. Utica offers some of the best travel and support in the AHL. Abbotsford or any other BC market would have the worst travel in the league, their closest road game would be a 20 hour bus ride. There’s no markets, or at least good ones, in a California or anywhere else in the US.

Utica’s furthest in-conference trip is closer than Abbotsford would be. Vancouver, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Calgary, Edmonton and all the other teams with their affiliates far away have said they prioritize travel over ease of call ups. Less time traveling means more time on the ice, in the gym, and sleeping in their own beds. There’s no good or realistic markets in California or anywhere else close to other Pacific division teams. And Utica supports their AHL team because the NHL steam cares. NJ notoriously doesn’t care, they wouldn’t be a good match.

Doesn't have to be Abbotsford. Could be Rapid City, Palm Springs, if Seattle makes Idaho their affiliate though Abbotsford/Chilliwack wouldn't be a bad idea. But I do think Idaho should go WHL instead of ECHL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Doesn't have to be Abbotsford. Could be Rapid City, Palm Springs, if Seattle makes Idaho their affiliate though Abbotsford/Chilliwack wouldn't be a bad idea. But I do think Idaho should go WHL instead of ECHL.

Palm Springs is more than likely going to Seattle. Travel and development would still heavily favor Utica over Palm Springs. Rapid City’s travel is killer in the EC, the AHL would be a nonstarter there. If Seattle goes Idaho, then the Chilliwack/Abbotsford option would give them one reasonable divisional travel partner and then 6 others that are insane.

 

[Tater Tot]

I personally think the Canucks should bring their AHL team west and the Devils put their team in Utica.

The Devils were already in Utica once from 1987 to 1993, and they left.

 

[210]

The Devils were already in Utica once from 1987 to 1993, and they left.

They left because the Calgary Flames bought the team and moved it to Saint John. The Devils then affiliated with the River Rats (which were the Capital District Islanders before moving to Albany in 1993) .

 

[PCSPounder]

Palm Springs is more than likely going to Seattle. Travel and development would still heavily favor Utica over Palm Springs. Rapid City’s travel is killer in the EC, the AHL would be a nonstarter there. If Seattle goes Idaho, then the Chilliwack/Abbotsford option would give them one reasonable divisional travel partner and then 6 others that are insane.

People keep telling me "that indoor arena proposal" (it's a STADIUM proposal), or "there's an old arena" (nobody has pointed out what that is; never seen it) or "Seattle can pay for it themselves" (they can, but why would they?). It's vaporware. It might be vaporware perpetrated by the California teams, perhaps, but I highly doubt Stockton and the Barracuda are busing to San Diego. Some of the discussion on the matter has been ridiculous, mostly from people who haven't realized that the AHL has changed (dying to say "grown up," but that's another discussion).

(Have I hit a record for parenthetical thought here?)

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

People keep telling me "that indoor arena proposal" (it's a STADIUM proposal), or "there's an old arena" (nobody has pointed out what that is; never seen it) or "Seattle can pay for it themselves" (they can, but why would they?). It's vaporware. It might be vaporware perpetrated by the California teams, perhaps, but I highly doubt Stockton and the Barracuda are busing to San Diego. Some of the discussion on the matter has been ridiculous, mostly from people who haven't realized that the AHL has changed (dying to say "grown up," but that's another discussion).

(Have I hit a record for parenthetical thought here?)

Very little of what you just said made any sense. If you’re talking about the feasibility of Palm Springs, yes it’s a gong show, but I tend to trust the AHL BOG and the Seattle ownership group more than I trust people on HFBoards. Onto what I think is a travel comment. As of this past season, pretty much every AHL road trip is a bus trip. Stockton to San Diego is under 7 hours, Charlotte uses buses nearly every in-conference game and 7 hours is the length of their nearest trip. The only time Grand Rapids flies is when they can’t do an overnight bus trip or it was over 10 hours. Reading in Google with what other teams do, that seems to be the standard cutoff. None of the rest of what you said made any sense so I’m not even going to bother.

 

[210]

It might be vaporware perpetrated by the California teams, perhaps, but I highly doubt Stockton and the Barracuda are busing to San Diego.

I would be shocked if they weren't.

 

[JungleJON]

Not at all. There aren’t any enticing markets out west for a Canucks affiliate. Utica offers some of the best travel and support in the AHL. Abbotsford or any other BC market would have the worst travel in the league, their closest road game would be a 20 hour bus ride. There’s no markets, or at least good ones, in a California or anywhere else in the US.

Utica’s furthest in-conference trip is closer than Abbotsford would be. Vancouver, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, Calgary, Edmonton and all the other teams with their affiliates far away have said they prioritize travel over ease of call ups. Less time traveling means more time on the ice, in the gym, and sleeping in their own beds. There’s no good or realistic markets in California or anywhere else close to other Pacific division teams. And Utica supports their AHL team because the NHL steam cares. NJ notoriously doesn’t care, they wouldn’t be a good match.

ECHL Team Map

Here is the current ECHL map. If you look at it Boise & Salt Lake City are the teams out West, both have been rumored as potential AHL affiliates of NHL teams (Seattle in the near future) and (Calgary - moving their team out of Stockton) - makes a lot of sense. If this "does" happen, I can see Vancouver moving their AHL farm team out West it just depends upon where. There was some talk about one of the Washington based WHL cities awhile back.

It would help hockey out in general and then just maybe you would see some of the other ex-AHL eastern cities end up in the ECHL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

ECHL Team Map

Here is the current ECHL map. If you look at it Boise & Salt Lake City are the teams out West, both have been rumored as potential AHL affiliates of NHL teams (Seattle in the near future) and (Calgary - moving their team out of Stockton) - makes a lot of sense. If this "does" happen, I can see Vancouver moving their AHL farm team out West it just depends upon where. There was some talk about one of the Washington based WHL cities awhile back.

It would help hockey out in general and then just maybe you would see some of the other ex-AHL eastern cities end up in the ECHL.

That’s a lot of speculation, very little of it supported by logic Why would Vancouver move their team to the west to be anywhere other than BC? If Seattle isn’t even going to put their team in the Pacific Northwest in order to keep WHL harmony, I can’t imagine Vancouver would. The only reason they’d move back would be for Chilliwack, Abbotsford, or maybe somewhere on Vancouver Island.

As for Boise and SLC, Boise has been confirmed as a possible Seattle affiliate location. But no reliable source has ever put SLC forward. People on this forum said it had to be VGK who would go there, but now the Knights are in Chicago, across the street from O’Hare and all day non-stop 3 hour flights to Vegas, which is as convenient as callups can get. Calgary has a history of burning their AHL market, but butting into another market belonging to an independent-minded EC teams territory is quite a stretch. It would be easier to just renew the lease in Stockton.

 

[PCSPounder]

That’s a lot of speculation, very little of it supported by logic Why would Vancouver move their team to the west to be anywhere other than BC? If Seattle isn’t even going to put their team in the Pacific Northwest in order to keep WHL harmony, I can’t imagine Vancouver would. The only reason they’d move back would be for Chilliwack, Abbotsford, or maybe somewhere on Vancouver Island.

As for Boise and SLC, Boise has been confirmed as a possible Seattle affiliate location. But no reliable source has ever put SLC forward. People on this forum said it had to be VGK who would go there, but now the Knights are in Chicago, across the street from O’Hare and all day non-stop 3 hour flights to Vegas, which is as convenient as callups can get. Calgary has a history of burning their AHL market, but butting into another market belonging to an independent-minded EC teams territory is quite a stretch. It would be easier to just renew the lease in Stockton.

I had once been given a piece of logic from- I think- Lady Stanley in regards to why Vancouver might have interest in SLC. Delta has a Canadian presence and a western hub in SLC. Hence Vancouver- or Calgary- might be interested in going there.

 

[axecrew]

That’s a lot of speculation, very little of it supported by logic Why would Vancouver move their team to the west to be anywhere other than BC? If Seattle isn’t even going to put their team in the Pacific Northwest in order to keep WHL harmony, I can’t imagine Vancouver would. The only reason they’d move back would be for Chilliwack, Abbotsford, or maybe somewhere on Vancouver Island.

As for Boise and SLC, Boise has been confirmed as a possible Seattle affiliate location. But no reliable source has ever put SLC forward. People on this forum said it had to be VGK who would go there, but now the Knights are in Chicago, across the street from O’Hare and all day non-stop 3 hour flights to Vegas, which is as convenient as callups can get. Calgary has a history of burning their AHL market, but butting into another market belonging to an independent-minded EC teams territory is quite a stretch. It would be easier to just renew the lease in Stockton.

Not to mention Salt Lake City has already been a part of the AHL as part of the original I 6...they chose after a couple of years or so to leave due to expenses being so high. So unless they have different ownership now , I doubt their stance has changed.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I had once been given a piece of logic from- I think- Lady Stanley in regards to why Vancouver might have interest in SLC. Delta has a Canadian presence and a western hub in SLC. Hence Vancouver- or Calgary- might be interested in going there.

Multiple issues with what you suggesting. By that logic, wouldn’t Edmonton and Winnipeg also be interested in SLC? And neither of them are. San Jose is also a big Delta hub, and Calgary already has well-publicized shuttle and air travel infrastructure set up for their prospects in Stockton using SJC. United Airlines also has a big Canadian presence, especially in Vancouver. It’s all very speculative and based on unsound logic.

Not to mention the Utah Grizzlies have said on multiple occasions they are staying, and even prefer, the ECHL model over the AHL model. Link with proof: Utah Grizzlies: AHL is expanding west, but Grizzlies say they’re happy in ECHL

Not to mention Salt Lake City has already been a part of the AHL as part of the original I 6...they chose after a couple of years or so to leave due to expenses being so high. So unless they have different ownership now , I doubt their stance has changed.

They did jump ship shortly after joining from the IHL. However, the AHL has changed significantly as a league since then, but the SLC business model hasn’t changed. Their fans want to see winning teams, just like Ft. Wayne and Toledo, that’s why no AHL rumors go anywhere near those two teams. SLC joins a host of other EC teams fighting to stay independent of NHL influence.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

Pretty misleading headline in your post. No where did it say NJ was interested in even exploring this situation.

Too Barclay add Binghamton to the list of cities they have destroyed. We have been the farm team of Boston, LA, Pitt, Hartford, Washington, NYR, Ottawa and NJ in 37 AHL seasons. NJ is by far the worst parent team ever. I have missed more games in the last 2 years than the 35 years before combined. Awful.

Its what the devils do sadly they are like the grim reaper of minor league hockey citys.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Its what the devils do sadly they are like the grim reaper of minor league hockey citys.

They're not alone, unfortunately. Calgary has been pretty dump and change with their AHL markets. Perhaps it's not as much apathy as poor decisions. Don't think their affiliate has made money in over a decade, going back as far as Quad City. I mean, who on the Flames staff thought it was a good idea to put their affiliate in the middle of Canucksland? Boston is fairly apathetic as well, but they've got one of the best setups in the league so it's pretty easy having a "laissez-faire" policy as long as they keep getting results.

 

[JMCx4]

... (Have I hit a record for parenthetical thought here?)

Word count of 104 with just 5 parentheticals (the last one being a parenthetical AFTER-thought)? You might get a Miss Congeniality sash for that effort.

 

[SJinNewJersey]

No one is going to put a team in Paterson as no one would attend the games.

 

[adsfan]

Very little of what you just said made any sense. If you’re talking about the feasibility of Palm Springs, yes it’s a gong show, but I tend to trust the AHL BOG and the Seattle ownership group more than I trust people on HFBoards. Onto what I think is a travel comment. As of this past season, pretty much every AHL road trip is a bus trip. Stockton to San Diego is under 7 hours, Charlotte uses buses nearly every in-conference game and 7 hours is the length of their nearest trip. The only time Grand Rapids flies is when they can’t do an overnight bus trip or it was over 10 hours. Reading in Google with what other teams do, that seems to be the standard cutoff. None of the rest of what you said made any sense so I’m not even going to bother.

I am sure that it is high percentage of bus travel inside the northeastern teams and the inside the Midwest teams. I can tell you that Milwaukee will bus as far east as Cleveland (7 hours) and as far west as Des Moines (6 hours). Games beyond those distances, like in Texas and California, get flights. Based on last season's 38 road games, that would be 16 games or 42% in 7 extended distance road trips.

The season started with a swing to TX and SA. A week later, the Ads traveled to ONT and SD. In early December, Milwaukee traveled to Texas for 2 games and then 1 in SA. January 5 and 6 brought a trip to WBS and HER. The next week, it was 2 games at MB. February 17 and 18 had 2 more games at MB. At the end of February it was the Texas Stars again with games March 1 and 3 at San Antonio.

The schedule was a little different last season with no Sunday home games instead of 5 or 6, with no Easter swing to Texas and a game on the road the day after Thanksgiving. Usually, the Admirals don't play that day or they play at home. They also have a home game the day of the Daytona 500. I counted 17 of 21 years at one point. Milwaukee was a big auto racing town until some idiots were appointed to the Wisconsin State Fair Park Board. They had the race after the Indy 500 for 40 years and just totally blew it, so now it is Detroit for 2 races.

In Re: Palm Springs. Can they have good ice there? I went there around 1993 in mid June and the Dairy Queen was closed during the 3 summer months. When I was there, it was 107 F every day. My guess is that the ice cream melts in about 15 seconds at those temperatures. Maybe it cools down to 70 F in February?

They only thing that I know about Paterson, NJ relates to Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. I have been to the airport at Newark a few times, but that is it for my time in New Jersey.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I am sure that it is high percentage of bus travel inside the northeastern teams and the inside the Midwest teams. I can tell you that Milwaukee will bus as far east as Cleveland (7 hours) and as far west as Des Moines (6 hours). Games beyond those distances, like in Texas and California, get flights. Based on last season's 38 road games, that would be 16 games or 42% in 7 extended distance road trips.

The season started with a swing to TX and SA. A week later, the Ads traveled to ONT and SD. In early December, Milwaukee traveled to Texas for 2 games and then 1 in SA. January 5 and 6 brought a trip to WBS and HER. The next week, it was 2 games at MB. February 17 and 18 had 2 more games at MB. At the end of February it was the Texas Stars again with games March 1 and 3 at San Antonio.

The schedule was a little different last season with no Sunday home games instead of 5 or 6, with no Easter swing to Texas and a game on the road the day after Thanksgiving. Usually, the Admirals don't play that day or they play at home. They also have a home game the day of the Daytona 500. I counted 17 of 21 years at one point. Milwaukee was a big auto racing town until some idiots were appointed to the Wisconsin State Fair Park Board. They had the race after the Indy 500 for 40 years and just totally blew it, so now it is Detroit for 2 races.

In Re: Palm Springs. Can they have good ice there? I went there around 1993 in mid June and the Dairy Queen was closed during the 3 summer months. When I was there, it was 107 F every day. My guess is that the ice cream melts in about 15 seconds at those temperatures. Maybe it cools down to 70 F in February?

They only thing that I know about Paterson, NJ relates to Rubin "Hurricane" Carter. I have been to the airport at Newark a few times, but that is it for my time in New Jersey.

Positive. They will fly down, but they then rent buses down there. For example, they will fly to San José but then take vans to Stockton. Or fly to Austin and then bus to San Antonio. Things like this.

The jury is out for Palm Springs. It’s comparable climate to Vegas, an area that had temperatures over 100 during the season. It will be a battle.