Devils minor league club to NJ

JMCx4

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... In Re: Palm Springs. Can they have good ice there? I went there around 1993 in mid June and the Dairy Queen was closed during the 3 summer months. When I was there, it was 107 F every day. My guess is that the ice cream melts in about 15 seconds at those temperatures. Maybe it cools down to 70 F in February? ...
If the Dubai Marina Mall developers can maintain an Olympic-sized ice rink in the UAE year-round, it can be done in Palm Springs. Sequestering the arena space inside a well designed air-conditioned outer structure helps to control humidity & temperature in the rink, while nighttime temps in a desert can help reduce the daily challenge of keeping the ice skateable. And if an AHL owner wants to stand up a team before a modern arena can be constructed, it wouldn't be the first time a hockey team in North America started play on a less-than-ideal ice surface. The NHL has a team of experts in ice plant design & installation as well as ice maintenance, all of which can be brought to bear if Seattle or some other team decides they want to establish an AHL affiliate there ... in Palm Springs, that is - Dubai would be one helluva bus ride. :help:
 

wildcat48

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Welcome to the new AHL...
I’m not going to say that Binghamton or Utica are going to lose their team, but I would not be shocked if they did because that’s the new AHL. It’s no longer about travel within the league. It’s how close can you get to the NHL parent team and unfortunately I do not think we are at the end of seeing teams move around. It’s sucks because its ruined some really good hockey markets for example Manchester. I think several cities and their fans will have difficult decisions to make in the coming years.

1. If the Devils leave Binghamton. Options for affiliates are dwindling. Perhaps a look at the ECHL might be an option joining former AHL cities and building upon those past rivals.

2. The Canucks are going to leave Utica. It’s not if, but when, and they are likely to end up in Abbotsford, Cranmore, Langley area. I’ll make the same statement about Utica as Binghamton. Affiliates are dwindling. Maybe the Rangers will consider Utica. I don’t know. They seem to be just biding their time until something better opens up or Connecticut and Hartford gets it s*** together on the future on the XL Center. So, you might not lose the team, but I certainly see an affiliation change coming within the next couple of seasons.

As for Vegas... They went to Chicago because they didn’t have any prospects at the time and it made sense to go to a team that still signed its own players. I’ll guarantee that within the next five or six years we’ll hearing about Vegas wanting to move their prospects closer.
 

adsfan

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If the Dubai Marina Mall developers can maintain an Olympic-sized ice rink in the UAE year-round, it can be done in Palm Springs. Sequestering the arena space inside a well designed air-conditioned outer structure helps to control humidity & temperature in the rink, while nighttime temps in a desert can help reduce the daily challenge of keeping the ice skateable. And if an AHL owner wants to stand up a team before a modern arena can be constructed, it wouldn't be the first time a hockey team in North America started play on a less-than-ideal ice surface. The NHL has a team of experts in ice plant design & installation as well as ice maintenance, all of which can be brought to bear if Seattle or some other team decides they want to establish an AHL affiliate there ... in Palm Springs, that is - Dubai would be one helluva bus ride. :help:

Sorry, having ice year round in a mall is not the same as having AHL or NHL quality ice. You seem to be saying YES, but I am reading it as NO.

Several years ago there was an outdoor NHL exhibition game in Las Vegas. They had triple refrigeration for the expected temps in the 80s. But that was one game, not a season, and not when it is 100 F. I appreciate that the desert air can be dry, which helps for good ice. How about 8,000 or 10,000 hockey fans watching and breathing out lots of moisture into the building? That isn't the same thing as having 100 people skating at a mall. You are going to need a huge amount of air conditioning for an arena in the 8-10 K seat range. (BTW, the best AC that I found in Palm Springs was at the movie theater. My kids were upset that the 2 movies playing were Volcano and Jungle to Jungle! They wanted to forget about the heat outside. They liked the popcorn.)

From Google: In the winter months of December and January, the average daily high temperatures in Palm Springs are in the mid-to-low 70's and high 60's and increase to the mid-to-high 70s and 80s during February and March.

From Climate - Arizona State Climate Office
What is the weather like in Arizona in January?
In most years, Phoenix averages a daily maximum temperature for January that's between 66 and 72 degrees Fahrenheit (19 to 22 degrees Celsius). The minimum temperature usually falls between 44 and 48 °F (6 to 9 °C). The days at Phoenix heat up gradually during January.


Hockey season is over, but the current temperature in Palm Springs is 101 F. It seems to be hotter in Palm Springs than Phoenix in January. Phoenix is a balmy 97 F at the moment. For today, Palm Springs still seems to be hotter than Phoenix.
 

adsfan

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Welcome to the new AHL...
I’m not going to say that Binghamton or Utica are going to lose their team, but I would not be shocked if they did because that’s the new AHL. It’s no longer about travel within the league. It’s how close can you get to the NHL parent team and unfortunately I do not think we are at the end of seeing teams move around. It’s sucks because its ruined some really good hockey markets for example Manchester. I think several cities and their fans will have difficult decisions to make in the coming years.

1. If the Devils leave Binghamton. Options for affiliates are dwindling. Perhaps a look at the ECHL might be an option joining former AHL cities and building upon those past rivals.

2. The Canucks are going to leave Utica. It’s not if, but when, and they are likely to end up in Abbotsford, Cranmore, Langley area. I’ll make the same statement about Utica as Binghamton. Affiliates are dwindling. Maybe the Rangers will consider Utica. I don’t know. They seem to be just biding their time until something better opens up or Connecticut and Hartford gets it s*** together on the future on the XL Center. So, you might not lose the team, but I certainly see an affiliation change coming within the next couple of seasons.

As for Vegas... They went to Chicago because they didn’t have any prospects at the time and it made sense to go to a team that still signed its own players. I’ll guarantee that within the next five or six years we’ll hearing about Vegas wanting to move their prospects closer.

This is a concern as the stock market is at 26,000. What happens if it goes down to 19 K or 14 K?
 

Barclay Donaldson

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Welcome to the new AHL...
I’m not going to say that Binghamton or Utica are going to lose their team, but I would not be shocked if they did because that’s the new AHL. It’s no longer about travel within the league. It’s how close can you get to the NHL parent team and unfortunately I do not think we are at the end of seeing teams move around. It’s sucks because its ruined some really good hockey markets for example Manchester. I think several cities and their fans will have difficult decisions to make in the coming years.

Not a chance that callups been prioritized *over* travel. Many teams have been fortunate enough to be in a situation where there could get both, but none have had travel lower on the list since the moves west. Last time I checked, Edmonton, Calgary, Nashville, Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Vancouver all keep their affiliates in Bakersfield, Stockton, Milwaukee, Springfield, Syracuse, Chicago, and Utica respectively. None of those are anywhere close to the parent team.

No other teams are on an island for travel other than Carolina-Charlotte and Winnipeg-Manitoba, with the Jets still actively looking to move them out after they failed to put them in the proposed Thunder Bay arena, and Carolina holding Charlotte since 2010. But that right there is almost a third of the league who actively chose travel well over ease of callups. It gets closer to a third if you include St. Louis-San Antonio with their agreement for several more years, and Pittsburgh-WBS which are nearly 300 miles apart.

As for Vegas... They went to Chicago because they didn’t have any prospects at the time and it made sense to go to a team that still signed its own players. I’ll guarantee that within the next five or six years we’ll hearing about Vegas wanting to move their prospects closer.

They went to Chicago because the Wolves are 5 minutes away from O'Hare, which offers cheap, 3 hour, non-stop flights to Vegas all day, every day. No other market near them is open, or are like Fresno and Reno where there's off-ice issues that make icing a team a non-starter. And none of those markets are going to change in the future.
 

JMCx4

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... I appreciate that the desert air can be dry, which helps for good ice. How about 8,000 or 10,000 hockey fans watching and breathing out lots of moisture into the building? That isn't the same thing as having 100 people skating at a mall. ...
Are we talking about the same AHL? :huh: Nonetheless, if someone with sufficient disposable funds wants an AHL team in Palm Springs, I'm confident it's gonna happen. We should let them figure out the logistics, since we're not likely to pay admission to watch a team there more than once or twice in our remaining lifetimes.
 
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JMCx4

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This is a concern as the stock market is at 26,000. What happens if it goes down to 19 K or 14 K?
Then I'll be worrying far less about "the new AHL" and far more about retiring in the foreseeable future. :help::help:
 

wildcat48

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Not a chance that callups been prioritized *over* travel. Many teams have been fortunate enough to be in a situation where there could get both, but none have had travel lower on the list since the moves west. Last time I checked, Edmonton, Calgary, Nashville, Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Vancouver all keep their affiliates in Bakersfield, Stockton, Milwaukee, Springfield, Syracuse, Chicago, and Utica respectively. None of those are anywhere close to the parent team.

No other teams are on an island for travel other than Carolina-Charlotte and Winnipeg-Manitoba, with the Jets still actively looking to move them out after they failed to put them in the proposed Thunder Bay arena, and Carolina holding Charlotte since 2010. But that right there is almost a third of the league who actively chose travel well over ease of callups. It gets closer to a third if you include St. Louis-San Antonio with their agreement for several more years, and Pittsburgh-WBS which are nearly 300 miles apart.



They went to Chicago because the Wolves are 5 minutes away from O'Hare, which offers cheap, 3 hour, non-stop flights to Vegas all day, every day. No other market near them is open, or are like Fresno and Reno where there's off-ice issues that make icing a team a non-starter. And none of those markets are going to change in the future.

Why do think the Kings, Ducks and Sharks moved west? The Oilers and Flames moving to California still put them in better position to be close to the parent club compared to where they were originally located.

Same thing with Arizona moving to Tucson. If travel within the league was such a concern they could have stayed together in New England and kept their nice little bus league. They wanted to be as close as possible to the parent club for salary cap purposes and it made it easier for the scouting team.

Belleville, Cleveland, Colorado and Laval are all recent moves either by parent club or by affiliation change. It won’t be the last.

Vegas going to Chicago had nothing to with travel.... Vegas didn’t have any prospect and Chicago is the lone team left in the AHL that signs its own players. That’s why St. Louis wanted to leave. Vegas allows Chicago to stock the roster as Vegas builds up it prospects, adding more to the roster each year. Just look at the roster from year one to year two. If Vegas had the opportunity to be in the west, I’d have no doubt they be in the west.
 
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Centrum Hockey

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Why do think the Kings, Ducks and Sharks moved west? The Oilers and Flames moving to California still put them in better position to be close to the parent club compared to where they were originally located.

Same thing with Arizona moving to Tucson. If travel within the league was such a concern they could have stayed together in New England and kept their nice little bus league. They wanted to be as close as possible to the parent club for salary cap purposes and it made it easier for the scouting team.

Belleville, Cleveland, Colorado and Laval are all recent moves either by parent club or by affiliation change. It won’t be the last.

Vegas going to Chicago had nothing to with travel.... Vegas didn’t have any prospect and Chicago is the lone team left in the AHL that signs its own players. That’s why St. Louis wanted to leave. Vegas allows Chicago to stock the roster as Vegas builds up it prospects, adding more to the roster each year. Just look at the roster from year one to year two. If Vegas had the opportunity to be in the west, I’d have no doubt they be in the west.
I bet if the Florida teams ever want their affiliate's in Orlando and Estero the AHL will make it happen regardless of the support of the Syracuse/Springfield and the distance to the other ahl teams.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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Why do think the Kings, Ducks and Sharks moved west? The Oilers and Flames moving to California still put them in better position to be close to the parent club compared to where they were originally located.

Same thing with Arizona moving to Tucson. If travel within the league was such a concern they could have stayed together in New England and kept their nice little bus league. They wanted to be as close as possible to the parent club for salary cap purposes and it made it easier for the scouting team.

Belleville, Cleveland, Colorado and Laval are all recent moves either by parent club or by affiliation change. It won’t be the last.

Vegas going to Chicago had nothing to with travel.... Vegas didn’t have any prospect and Chicago is the lone team left in the AHL that signs its own players. That’s why St. Louis wanted to leave. Vegas allows Chicago to stock the roster as Vegas builds up it prospects, adding more to the roster each year. Just look at the roster from year one to year two. If Vegas had the opportunity to be in the west, I’d have no doubt they be in the west.

The California teams moved West because they could get both, as I said many teams got. But none have priorities ease of call ups *over* travel. I listed 8-9 teams, nearly 1/3 of the league, with their long term affiliate futures tied to markets that offer lower quality callups, but high quality travel and the prospect development that comes with it. The only two that have bad travel but good callups are Charlotte, who have been there pre-Westward movement, and Manitoba, who the Jets are actively looking for a home for after several arenas in several markets fell through.

Edmonton to Bakersfield is further than a their previous home in OKC. Edmonton and Calgary could’ve moved to Alberta or somewhere nearby but they went to markets that had great travel arrangements. Milwaukee, Tampa, and Springfield obviously aren’t easy callups and all three parent teams are committed to the market. If your assertion was true and callups were prioritized, they would be somewhere spread out in the southeast rather near travel partners. Tucson fits right in with the AHL Pacific Division, so they get both. And Vancouver has three wide open arenas in Vernon, Abbotsford, and Chilliwack that are all conveniently far away from everyone.

All four of those teams you listed fit in the geographic footprint of the league and are all easy travel. Colorado is a bit of a stretch, but Cleveland, Belleville, and Laval are all easy bus rides to every divisional opponent and nearly every conference opponent too.

Vegas went to Chicago because Reno and Fresno couldn’t get their act together and likely never will. They probably kicked the tires on SLC but he’s independent minded like Ft. Wayne and Toledo so they probably told Foley to get lost. They have a great setup in Chicago with easy travel and good infrastructure getting their prospects home when needed. They wouldn’t want to fit a round peg in a square hole when their situation is pretty ideal as it is.
 

Centrum Hockey

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The California teams moved West because they could get both, as I said many teams got. But none have priorities ease of call ups *over* travel. I listed 8-9 teams, nearly 1/3 of the league, with their long term affiliate futures tied to markets that offer lower quality callups, but high quality travel and the prospect development that comes with it. The only two that have bad travel but good callups are Charlotte, who have been there pre-Westward movement, and Manitoba, who the Jets are actively looking for a home for after several arenas in several markets fell through.

Edmonton to Bakersfield is further than a their previous home in OKC. Edmonton and Calgary could’ve moved to Alberta or somewhere nearby but they went to markets that had great travel arrangements. Milwaukee, Tampa, and Springfield obviously aren’t easy callups and all three parent teams are committed to the market. If your assertion was true and callups were prioritized, they would be somewhere spread out in the southeast rather near travel partners. Tucson fits right in with the AHL Pacific Division, so they get both. And Vancouver has three wide open arenas in Vernon, Abbotsford, and Chilliwack that are all conveniently far away from everyone.

All four of those teams you listed fit in the geographic footprint of the league and are all easy travel. Colorado is a bit of a stretch, but Cleveland, Belleville, and Laval are all easy bus rides to every divisional opponent and nearly every conference opponent too.

Vegas went to Chicago because Reno and Fresno couldn’t get their act together and likely never will. They probably kicked the tires on SLC but he’s independent minded like Ft. Wayne and Toledo so they probably told Foley to get lost. They have a great setup in Chicago with easy travel and good infrastructure getting their prospects home when needed. They wouldn’t want to fit a round peg in a square hole when their situation is pretty ideal as it is.
Jeffrey Vinik is committed enough to Florida that i can see a AHL team moving closer to Tampa the panthers have enough problems as is on the nhl level that subsidizing a ahl team that will likely lose a lot of money may be a little much.
 

Barclay Donaldson

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Jeffrey Vinik is committed enough to Florida that i can see a AHL team moving closer to Tampa the panthers have enough problems as is on the nhl level that subsidizing a ahl team that will likely lose a lot of money may be a little much.

Uh, couple of issues with that. Vinik doesn’t own the Crunch, a local NY guy does and he loves Crunch AHL hockey and doesn’t seem like he would be interested in selling. Tampa Bay loves the affiliation, in fact they just extended it for like 7 more years while giving the EC affiliation to Orlando Solar Bears . If Vinik was going to do it, it would’ve been then.

Panthers aren’t moving out of Springfield anytime soon. Much like Tampa, they don’t own the team, have no clause where they can buy the team, and local ownership is committed while not interested in selling. It’s also a short walk from the AHL HQ.
 

Centrum Hockey

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Uh, couple of issues with that. Vinik doesn’t own the Crunch, a local NY guy does and he loves Crunch AHL hockey and doesn’t seem like he would be interested in selling. Tampa Bay loves the affiliation, in fact they just extended it for like 7 more years while giving the EC affiliation to Orlando Solar Bears . If Vinik was going to do it, it would’ve been then.

Panthers aren’t moving out of Springfield anytime soon. Much like Tampa, they don’t own the team, have no clause where they can buy the team, and local ownership is committed while not interested in selling. It’s also a short walk from the AHL HQ.
The ducks didn't need a clause in their Contract they did not own a team but they wanted to own one in San Diego. I think your missing @wildcat48's point about how there are very few affiliates left for these traditional ahl markets. If Vinik wanted to move the crunch to Orlando He would probably have no trouble doing so.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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The ducks didn't need a clause in their Contract they did not own a team but they wanted to own one in San Diego. I think your missing @wildcat48's point about how there are very few affiliates left for these traditional ahl markets. If Vinik wanted to move the crunch to Orlando He would probably have no trouble doing so.

Look at St. Louis trying to get an affiliate in KC and Indianapolis but getting stuck in San Antonio as proof of that being an incorrect assertion. If the people who hold the franchise rights don't want to sell, and there's no contractual obligation to, they won't. Vancouver could move out of Utica because Vancouver owns the franchise. New Jersey could move out of Binghamton if they wanted to because they own the franchise. But, when they're not taking any more AHL expansion franchises and the groups of the current ones aren't selling, like Milwaukee, San Antonio, Chicago, Springfield, and Syracuse.

If Vinik wanted to move the Crunch to Orlando, he would have to buy it from the ownership group who doesn't want to sell it to him. If Vinik wanted to move the Crunch, we probably would have had no trouble moving them to Orlando but he instead decided to put Orlando in the EC and agree to stay in Syracuse for many more years, and even longer once renovations are done to the arena. There's 31 NHL teams and 31 AHL teams, this isn't the fluid situation with changing agreements that constituted pre-2015 AHL. Anaheim was capable of going elsewhere in the Norfolk situation. If you don't see the situational difference there, you can't be helped.
 

Centrum Hockey

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Look at St. Louis trying to get an affiliate in KC and Indianapolis but getting stuck in San Antonio as proof of that being an incorrect assertion. If the people who hold the franchise rights don't want to sell, and there's no contractual obligation to, they won't. Vancouver could move out of Utica because Vancouver owns the franchise. New Jersey could move out of Binghamton if they wanted to because they own the franchise. But, when they're not taking any more AHL expansion franchises and the groups of the current ones aren't selling, like Milwaukee, San Antonio, Chicago, Springfield, and Syracuse.

If Vinik wanted to move the Crunch to Orlando, he would have to buy it from the ownership group who doesn't want to sell it to him. If Vinik wanted to move the Crunch, we probably would have had no trouble moving them to Orlando but he instead decided to put Orlando in the EC and agree to stay in Syracuse for many more years, and even longer once renovations are done to the arena. There's 31 NHL teams and 31 AHL teams, this isn't the fluid situation with changing agreements that constituted pre-2015 AHL. Anaheim was capable of going elsewhere in the Norfolk situation. If you don't see the situational difference there, you can't be helped.
I don't think there is a limit on expansion teams if they want to give one to a NHL owner.
 

Barclay Donaldson

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I don't think there is a limit on expansion teams if they want to give one to a NHL owner.

The NHL is on record stating that the NHL and AHL is and will be a 1-1 agreement. The ECHL isn’t there to make it a 1-1-1 agreement and likely won’t be for a while unless people follow the Leafs-Marlies-Growlers trend like Montréal is doing in Trois-Rivières.

When Seattle comes into the league, they’ll get an AHL franchise the years they enter or the year after like Vegas did. Colorado Eagles were the expansion team in that case. The AHL has never had more teams than the NHL and won’t. It’s the 1-1 agreement. I’d like to see it go all the way down to Single-A and get it to 1-1-1-1.
 

Centrum Hockey

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The NHL is on record stating that the NHL and AHL is and will be a 1-1 agreement. The ECHL isn’t there to make it a 1-1-1 agreement and likely won’t be for a while unless people follow the Leafs-Marlies-Growlers trend like Montréal is doing in Trois-Rivières.

When Seattle comes into the league, they’ll get an AHL franchise the years they enter or the year after like Vegas did. Colorado Eagles were the expansion team in that case. The AHL has never had more teams than the NHL and won’t. It’s the 1-1 agreement. I’d like to see it go all the way down to Single-A and get it to 1-1-1-1.
I meant as leverage for a Relocation and sale if the AHL team is not owned by a parent club. Regardless Most NHL teams probably could care less about what happens below the AHL level double a baseball isn't even a good comp for the echl its more like the Atlantic league.
 

Barclay Donaldson

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I meant as leverage for a Relocation and sale if the AHL team is not owned by a parent club. Regardless Most NHL teams probably could care less about what happens below the AHL level double a baseball isn't even a good comp for the echl its more like the Atlantic league.

There is no leverage. There is no clause that forces a sale of the club, there is no push to make a southeastern division, there is absolutely nothing they can do in those conditions if the AHL owner doesn't want to sell. Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver can do what when they please, since they own the rights to the franchises. But, Florida, Tampa, Nashville, and St. Louis's affiliations will remain static for quite some time. St. Louis tried doing what you're suggesting with multiple ECHL markets, including Indianapolis and Kansas City, and ran straight into a wall of reality.

And most NHL teams don't care, but they slowly are changing that. It takes a lot of money, but with how competitive every single team is in the entry draft and how committed everyone is to the AHL-NHL development system is, it's inevitable in the long term. Toronto was the first to do it on three levels, Montréal is next in line once the new Colisée de Trois-Rivières is finished. The EC this past season had 66 former players and 42 former coaches who started the season with the NHL. Those numbers were almost non-existent a decade ago, there were less than 20 in 17-18. With how competitive the NHL, getting gems in Yanni Gourde, Cory Conacher, David Desharnais, and others who spent significant time is the edge that teams look for. The ECHL has improved immensely in the past decade, it is highly unlikely it will regress any time soon.
 

royals119

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There is no leverage. There is no clause that forces a sale of the club, there is no push to make a southeastern division, there is absolutely nothing they can do in those conditions if the AHL owner doesn't want to sell.
I don't know if that is quite true. They could decide that if the targeted AHL owner won't sell that no NHL team will affiliate with that owner, and two teams will split an affiliation for a year. That AHL owner is then in a pretty tough spot. He/She could technically ice a team, but they would have a hard time competing on the ice without any assigned players, and financially they'd have a hard time with the increased payroll costs. Not to mention the difficulty in signing AHL free agents when the unstated implication is that those players have no chance of being called up to the NHL. Some say this is exactly what they did to the Norfolk Admirals owner a few years ago.
 
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Barclay Donaldson

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I don't know if that is quite true. They could decide that if the targeted AHL owner won't sell that no NHL team will affiliate with that owner, and two teams will split an affiliation for a year. That AHL owner is then in a pretty tough spot. He/She could technically ice a team, but they would have a hard time competing on the ice without any assigned players, and financially they'd have a hard time with the increased payroll costs. Not to mention the difficulty in signing AHL free agents when the unstated implication is that those players have no chance of being called up to the NHL. Some say this is exactly what they did to the Norfolk Admirals owner a few years ago.

That was pre-Western move when affiliations were fluid and it wasn’t uncommon to share affiliations with another NHL team. There’s absolutely no chance a team would be willing to share outside of sharing with an expansion team for one year. No one is willing to do this, sharing an affiliate was pretty normal before this move. That leverage is gone since no one is willing to share. Once again, Tampa made Orlando their EC affiliate and extended their affiliation with Syracuse. Don’t you think if they had any plans, or capability, or leverage, it would have happened at that point?
 

royals119

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That was pre-Western move when affiliations were fluid and it wasn’t uncommon to share affiliations with another NHL team. There’s absolutely no chance a team would be willing to share outside of sharing with an expansion team for one year. No one is willing to do this, sharing an affiliate was pretty normal before this move. That leverage is gone since no one is willing to share. Once again, Tampa made Orlando their EC affiliate and extended their affiliation with Syracuse. Don’t you think if they had any plans, or capability, or leverage, it would have happened at that point?
I think Tampa got what they wanted. There was no reason to force the AHL owner into doing something since they were happy with the arrangement, and the AHL owner wasn't preventing them from getting what they wanted. My point was only that IF a group of NHL owners decided they did want to do something and an independent AHL owner tried to stand in their way, they COULD pressure him/her into selling the team. I don't think they currently have that situation, but if it arose in the future, the NHL owners have leverage they could use.
 

Drake88

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They went to Chicago because the Wolves are 5 minutes away from O'Hare, which offers cheap, 3 hour, non-stop flights to Vegas all day, every day. No other market near them is open, or are like Fresno and Reno where there's off-ice issues that make icing a team a non-starter. And none of those markets are going to change in the future.

There were some good points made throughout this whole page about why Vegas picked Chicago. It was the right move at the time, but I do agree the would probably like somewhere out west better (even though Chicago is extremely convenient). Reno was always one of the first cities that came to my mind, but then I figured why not Vegas? Putting your AHL team in your city has become more common and if they would rather not share an arena, the AHL team could use Orleans Arena which housed the ECHL Wranglers for years. Obviously attendance for the Golden Knights has been tremendous, but the support and interest throughout the city has been equally impressive. Maybe management believes there would be enough interest to bring their prospects to the city as well. If Reno or Fresno eventually did get things together, maybe they could be an ECHL or Single A affiliate in the future and create a nice geographic affiliation chain. I would also love to see it go 1-1-1-1 but think that is obviously far down the road. I personally believe that 1-1-1-2 would be something to shoot for in the coming years. Considering Chicago is independently owned and likes to sign there own players, they may possibly be a good fit for Seattle, another team that will require 2-3 years of building their prospect pool.
 

JMCx4

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St. Louis, MO
... Reno was always one of the first cities that came to my mind, but then I figured why not Vegas? Putting your AHL team in your city has become more common and if they would rather not share an arena, the AHL team could use Orleans Arena which housed the ECHL Wranglers for years. ...
Boyd Gaming unceremoniously refused to extend the Wranglers lease @ Orleans in 2013. Despite the subsequent surge in hockey support brought by the Golden Knights & their Vegas sideshow, I don't see Boyd agreeing to displace current tenants for AHL accommodations.
 

Barclay Donaldson

Registered User
Feb 4, 2018
2,531
2,058
Tatooine
There were some good points made throughout this whole page about why Vegas picked Chicago. It was the right move at the time, but I do agree the would probably like somewhere out west better (even though Chicago is extremely convenient). Reno was always one of the first cities that came to my mind, but then I figured why not Vegas? Putting your AHL team in your city has become more common and if they would rather not share an arena, the AHL team could use Orleans Arena which housed the ECHL Wranglers for years. Obviously attendance for the Golden Knights has been tremendous, but the support and interest throughout the city has been equally impressive. Maybe management believes there would be enough interest to bring their prospects to the city as well. If Reno or Fresno eventually did get things together, maybe they could be an ECHL or Single A affiliate in the future and create a nice geographic affiliation chain. I would also love to see it go 1-1-1-1 but think that is obviously far down the road. I personally believe that 1-1-1-2 would be something to shoot for in the coming years. Considering Chicago is independently owned and likes to sign there own players, they may possibly be a good fit for Seattle, another team that will require 2-3 years of building their prospect pool.

Reno has off-ice issues with the arena that make any hockey tenant in that arena a bond-starter. Vegas would never put their AHL team there, just because the NHL team in the two seasons they have existed is well supported doesn’t mean an affiliate would.

Seattle has made it clear that the goal for their AHL market is Palm Springs, CA and Boise, Idaho as the second most likely. Chicago wouldn’t even be considered. And Chicago is doing a good job providing Vegas with well-rounded and competitive prospects in a solid environment with easy call-ups, can’t see them changing that to share a town especially when no expansion team is available and no AHL would sell them franchise rights.
 
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Tommy Hawk

Registered User
May 27, 2006
4,223
104
I think Tampa got what they wanted. There was no reason to force the AHL owner into doing something since they were happy with the arrangement, and the AHL owner wasn't preventing them from getting what they wanted. My point was only that IF a group of NHL owners decided they did want to do something and an independent AHL owner tried to stand in their way, they COULD pressure him/her into selling the team. I don't think they currently have that situation, but if it arose in the future, the NHL owners have leverage they could use.

This already happened with Norfolk.
 

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