Post-Game Talk: Devils get their lunch money stolen 4-0 to the Quacks

[Triumph]

“All drafts aren’t the same” in other words being bad to get good is really more of a calculated risk than an actual reliable strategy. Funny how it’s not presented that way by the usual cohorts.

Anyone sensible on this topic has said that being bad for an extended period of time is not a guarantee of being good, but it is just how most of the best teams of the last 15 years have gotten their best players. It's not that all bad teams become good, but that most good teams have been bad. So you just had to follow the logic on that one, and of course this has been explained to you multiple times and you pretend not to hear it. Given that the Devils had no realistic choice except to be bad, I'm not sure what else can be said on this one.

Also funny how we are now starting to move the goal posts from Nico being unlucky to now saying expectations from him should have been lower from the start.

You started this off with a ridiculous claim that people have said Nico is unlucky wrt performance throughout his career, and he's not, his performance up until the last 8 games has been remarkably consistent if you want to judge by points. He has not been an inconsistent player in that regard in his career at all - you can cut up every season he's played and his performance points-wise is basically the same in all of them. What is true is that Nico was not thought to have high-end 1st line potential when he was drafted. His performance in junior is not suggestive of a 75+ point center. What was thought to be true is that Nico would be a solid two-way guy who depending on how his awareness works out can be a borderline 1C, and so far that's what appears to be happening.

 

[Hisch13r]

This is a good point. He would in fact be pacing 20 goals if he merely had 1 more goal. #statistics

He hasn’t had “production issues” for years. He’s been the 20ish goal 50ish points guy every year except for the COVID year. He has had durability issues and you have expectation issues.

If only there was 0.000001 more on the clock and he’d have that extra goal

 

[Derps]

I wonder what the point totals around the league would be if we all added all the almost points for everyone

 

[devilsblood]

Right now, based on the last few games and especially this game. There's no doubt we have the worst special teams in the league, I don't know if the stats agree yet, but it's only a matter of time, if they keep playing like this. If you lose to bottom feeder teams like Anaheim, Columbus and Buffalo, where does it put us? The Pittsburgh game was good, but other than that it's been pretty awful the last few games.

A lot of us were hoping we'd be fighting for a wildcard spot, but they've been playing even worse than last season, even with Dougie, Graves, Bernier and Tatar added and the youngsters being a year older.

Hopefully this is a wakeup call and they'll be a lot better against the kings.

I wouldn't recommend ranking the league based off one game samples, it probably won't be accurate.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Zegras being better than all of our guys outside of Jack would be the furthest thing from surprising. You're also overrating Terry as well because he's on a shooting bender.

Sure, that's likely since he's producing at better than a point a game through a 9 game 12-point streak. It would be nice for someone to have one of those.

 

[DebateLordsOnHFLOL]

Sure, that's likely since he's producing at better than a point a game through a 9 game 12-point streak. It would be nice for someone to have one of those.

typically you dont see players who are playing poorly getting any type of puck luck. the rich get richer.

 

[TBF1972]

We have lost 4 of our last 6 since Jack got hurt, plus Hawks and Kraken have been awful and we still had tons of problems with them. And this loss is the worst of them all, with our lineup we had no reason to lose to a team like the Ducks let alone get shut down and absolutely embarrased. This makes us possibly the worst team in the league right now. I have no faith that they'll win anyone if they keep playing like this. Something radical needs to happen asap!

if the devils are the worst team in the league winning against the hawks and kraken (by this definition better teams) isn't a zero accomplishment.

next time more effort, please.

 

[NjdPass]

I agree that this team beat themselves last night. Honestly, there werent many defensive breakdowns 5 on 5. I actually thought Subban played his best game of the year.

If you are giving up 1 or 2 PP goals a game....chances are you are not going to win the game. It is just that simple... what we need to really do is close the box more and have useful sticks.

Every teams PP is able to get a slot pass through on our Pk unit and it will always end up in the back of our net.

If they werent giving up so many goals on the PK, I honestly wouldnt be worried about the PP because their 5 on 5 play has been good.

For our power play.......Did anyone else notice that they kept forcing the puck behind the net on the first two PP? This makes ZERO sense to me because we do not have the size to be forcing plays down low on the PP. We are just not going to win most puck battles. Our forwards are just to small, unless you are a Mercer who is RELENTLESS on the puck.....its not going to work out for us.

Just our top guys offensively need to be our top guys. Sorry but Nico needs to finish a couple of those chances in the first. Mercer line gets a pass because they have been contributing for us the last 3 games and just didnt score this game because ANA D were making desperation plays.

I said it in the last game about NICO has been making plays that are hurting this team. I want Nico to produce as a #1 but we know what he can bring in the hockey IQ department. Lets be real though guys, he hasnt played much in the last 2 season. He has literally only played 79 games and that is rough to be honest. He really needs to simplify his game, just like all of the other players.

I think we are experiencing extreme highs and lows...Its up to the coaching staff to stop the bleeding and get this team to compete on a nightly basis.

 

[Buck Dancer]

He's a captain and part of a center duo that was supposed to eventually form one of the best ones in the league. That is looking like a pipe dream at the moment. I dont think my expectations are wrong at all, but you all do you.

Hughes-Mercer will be rock solid, I’m not worried at all lol

 

[Barry Tallackson]

At 5v5 he’s got the highest ixG/60 with the 2nd highest iSCF/60 and iHDCF/60

bUt nIcOs CoRsI

 

[Barry Tallackson]

Fire Nas, make Recchi the equipment manager, call up Holtz, RIP dancin earl

 

[TBF1972]

Nico and Bratt both seem like the kind of players that are going to get a million chances and just won't convert. After a while we have to ignore underlying numbers, chances created, and so on and just call it what it is: Not good enough.

We one million percent need a top six right winger.

but a win isn't a win, when they didn't dominate for 60 minutes against a weaker opponent or beat a cup contender.

 

[TBF1972]

Nico is on a 4 season cold streak now. The only season that wasn't a cold streak for him was the year he played essentially every shift with the Hart trophy winner who would just go end-to-end every shift and single handedly dominate 5v5 play.

a hart trophy winner, who hasn't look dominant ever since.

 

[Barry Tallackson]

a hart trophy winner, who hasn't look dominant ever since.

Hall boosted Nico’s stats for sure but Nico doesn’t look like the same aggressive player. Look at his rookie highlights on YouTube. Nico was looking for his shot

 

[ninetyeight]

if the devils are the worst team in the league winning against the hawks and kraken (by this definition better teams) isn't a zero accomplishment.
next time more effort, please.

Hey I’m just following the hfboards protocol, it’s been 2 weeks since those games, hence they are ancient history and don’t matter. And naturally this latest game defines the future of the entire franchise for the next 5 years or so.

Also comfort by overreaction.

 

[TBF1972]

I know he would be. I don't think that's great, but it's not bad. But people here are acting like he has no points because his shooting percentage is low and it's categorically untrue.

Maybe I have expectation issues. I expect the 1OA top 6 captain center to not get hurt every year and put up more than 50 points. Wild shit, I know. I just can't take not having prodcution issues seriously when he has the career numbers he has. It's just a stupid opinion.

and now hughes and hamilton follow the captain's example ...

give the c to a player, who doesn't get injured.

 

[TBF1972]

Hey I’m just following the hfboards protocol, it’s been 2 weeks since those games, hence they are ancient history and don’t matter. And naturally this latest game defines the future of the entire franchise for the next 5 years or so.

Also comfort by overreaction.

i can't like it. not (totally) my fault.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

“All drafts aren’t the same” in other words being bad to get good is really more of a calculated risk than an actual reliable strategy. Funny how it’s not presented that way by the usual cohorts. Also funny how we are now starting to move the goal posts from Nico being unlucky to now saying expectations from him should have been lower from the start.

Are you implying that Shero was tanking? I would absolutely 100% disagree with that.

 

[TBF1972]

Sure, that's likely since he's producing at better than a point a game through a 9 game 12-point streak. It would be nice for someone to have one of those.

terry was drafted in 2015 and has never produced like this before. maybe this is his break out season and he becomes a superstar. maybe he becomes a fine top 6 winger. or maybe he falls a little back closer to his previous production. small sample sizes shouldn't be used for definite predictions.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Are you implying that Shero was tanking? I would absolutely 100% disagree with that.

No Shero wasn't tanking. He was playing NHL 21 GM mode, except without access to actual top line players.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Anyone sensible on this topic has said that being bad for an extended period of time is not a guarantee of being good, but it is just how most of the best teams of the last 15 years have gotten their best players. It's not that all bad teams become good, but that most good teams have been bad. So you just had to follow the logic on that one, and of course this has been explained to you multiple times and you pretend not to hear it. Given that the Devils had no realistic choice except to be bad, I'm not sure what else can be said on this one.

Where are these sensible posters you speak of, because this kind of nuance around this has not really existed. Exhibit A is the near constant criticism, still six years after the fact, about how a certain former GM refused to start rebuilding years before he left and how that is the reason we are still so bad. That seems to imply to me the exact opposite of the "sensibility" you speak of. It seems to me that at least some people are very much convinced we'd be better now if only we sold off every vet and sucked even worse than we did during that time period.

You started this off with a ridiculous claim that people have said Nico is unlucky wrt performance throughout his career, and he's not, his performance up until the last 8 games has been remarkably consistent if you want to judge by points. He has not been an inconsistent player in that regard in his career at all - you can cut up every season he's played and his performance points-wise is basically the same in all of them. What is true is that Nico was not thought to have high-end 1st line potential when he was drafted. His performance in junior is not suggestive of a 75+ point center. What was thought to be true is that Nico would be a solid two-way guy who depending on how his awareness works out can be a borderline 1C, and so far that's what appears to be happening.

This is a misrepresentation of the board's general consensus around Nico, which is that he would blossom from a pedestrian 50 point guy to a 70+ point two way force. And subsequently a lack of "luck" (injuries, linemates, quality of the overall team, shortened seasons, blah blah blah) has been propped up as the excuse for why that has not come to fruition, DESPITE the overwhelming consistency of being a pedestrian 50 point guy for four years now.

 

[Devs3cups]

Hall boosted Nico’s stats for sure but Nico doesn’t look like the same aggressive player. Look at his rookie highlights on YouTube. Nico was looking for his shot

Thanks for this, I went to look, he scored a few pretty ones that year that I had forgot about, which actually made me even more optimistic he can pop off soon lol.

 

[13BearerOfHope]

Nico isn’t playing with confidence and the “looseness” to put the puck in the net, I can see that. Must be a lot of pressure he puts on himself. He will be fine but this first captain year is not easy.

what did all you smart-alecs do and achieve when you were 22?

Give the kid a break. He is and will be a central piece of our puzzle. Nope he won’t ever be the scoring machine. Jack, Holtz and hopefully others more (?) will play that part.

Let’s go Nico. Loosen up. Get laid. Smoke a joint. Don’t read this forum!

 

[tailfins]

That looks like a nothingburger to me. Multiple hits like that every night.

Zacha was slew footed much worse in the same game, although I didn’t get a replay of it.

Seems like this is a combo of Subban’s earlier hit and Zegras seems to draw extra league scrutiny. I would guess he gets the next level up fine just because they’re meeting with him.

 

[Triumph]

Where are these sensible posters you speak of, because this kind of nuance around this has not really existed. Exhibit A is the near constant criticism, still six years after the fact, about how a certain former GM refused to start rebuilding years before he left and how that is the reason we are still so bad. That seems to imply to me the exact opposite of the "sensibility" you speak of. It seems to me that at least some people are very much convinced we'd be better now if only we sold off every vet and sucked even worse than we did during that time period.

I agree that a lot of people are not sensible about this, and I don't think Lou should've begun to rebuild years before he left. If you want to play Sliding Doors, it's not hard to arrive at a past version of the Devils that is really, really bad in 2015 and 2016 and has a shot for McDavid, Eichel, Matthews, or Laine. But I suspect you don't and I don't either. The only thing I criticize Lou for specifically beyond the drafting is if he knew Kovalchuk was leaving before he acquired Schneider. Even if not, Kovalchuk wasn't that good, so it's not like losing him hurt the team all that much. That said, I don't think it's very difficult to argue that the Devils would be better off now if they had sold then, but that's true of any time 8 or 9 years ago for any franchise that didn't end up going anywhere.

This is a misrepresentation of the board's general consensus around Nico, which is that he would blossom from a pedestrian 50 point guy to a 70+ point two way force. And subsequently a lack of "luck" (injuries, linemates, quality of the overall team, shortened seasons, blah blah blah) has been propped up as the excuse for why that has not come to fruition, DESPITE the overwhelming consistency of being a pedestrian 50 point guy for four years now.

This is you conflating injury luck and performance luck, plain and simple. There is absolutely no board consensus before this year that people don't finish Nico's setups or that Nico himself is snakebit. Zero. You made it up, and it doesn't exist.