News Article: Devils drafting and Conte

[Devils Dominion]

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2015/02/have_the_devils_really_been_so_bad_at_the_draft_ta.html

Click to read more...

 

[JimEIV]

http://www.nj.com/devils/index.ssf/2015/02/have_the_devils_really_been_so_bad_at_the_draft_ta.html

That looked more like a drunken Hockey's Future post than a professionally written article.

 

[BenedictGomez]

That looked more like a drunken Hockey's Future post than a professionally written article.

I didnt think it was that bad, and I largely agree with it. Conte's taken way too much blame.

 

[NJDevs26]

The Tedenby sentence was hilarious but other than that I thought it was at least fair of DD to post a piece contrary to his own opinion if nothing else. And the compensatory pick stuff I didn't realize.

 

[devilsblood]

The Tedenby sentence was hilarious but other than that I thought it was at least fair of DD to post a piece contrary to his own opinion if nothing else. And the compensatory pick stuff I didn't realize.

I think that is evidence of Lou's struggle to deal with changes in the NHL.

He had long let UFA's walk and got picks, or better yet Scott Stevens, as compensation. No longer have the luxury. Guys just walk.

 

[devilsblood]

That looked more like a drunken Hockey's Future post than a professionally written article.

I don't think it was bad, but Chere definitely panders to his readers. Like the Ted's line that was noted above.

 

[goawaygary*]

I never liked the Josefson pick. Another "safe" defensive forward with little offensive upside. Turns out he has 0 offense and can't stay healthy

Don't like the Matteau pick either. Because of his dad and again, little offensive upside

Same with the Quenneville pick. Not enough offense, and now he's concussed

Mike Hoeffel was also a terrible pick (Lou : "but...but, he's an American, and he went to College, and he's responsible defensively. Who cares about goals!?") Nick Spaling and Wayne Simmonds went right after him.

And when Lou does pick the offensive player it's the wrong one (Tedenby) leaving John Carlson and Tyler Ennis to go shortly after him)

And taking Vasyunov when Jamie McBain went 4 picks after (where's your American/College fetish when you need it now Lou!?) was also a major miss.

Devils have the 52nd and 54th pick in the 2nd round of the 2008 draft. Who do they pick? Brandon Burlon and Patrice Cormier. Who goes 53? Travis Hamonic. Ouch.

Kirill Tulupov. Who are 4 of the next 5 players drafted? Eric Gryba, Cal Clutterbuck, Brad Marchand, and Steve Mason. Bad bad job there. This is where Lou used to find value. Not anymore

Jeff Frazee. 2nd round pick in 2005. Who goes right after? Ondrej Pavelec, Justin Abdelkader, Paul Stastny. And then Mason Raymond a bit further down. But no, we needed Ari Ahonen v.2.0 (Lou: "But he's an AMERICAN, who's going to COLLEGE, got to stock up on those college hockey americans!")

If you really dissect it this is very bad drafting record. Maybe not an F...but probably like a D or D+

 

[glenwo2]

The Devils drafted Stefan Matteau 29th overall in 2012. They could've had Tanner Pearson. And in 2009 they chose Jacob Josefson 20th overall. They took him ahead of Marcus Johansson.

Them and a million other teams, Chere.

 

[Devs4life]

never felt vasyunov got enough of a shot to call that a terrible pick.

 

[NJD Kula]

If you look closely at all of the picks and compare within the context of each draft the devils have done an amazing job. Plus all of the non drafted finds.

 

[Cowbell232]

That looked more like a drunken Hockey's Future post than a professionally written article.

Seriously this.

Basically Chere is using "public opinion" as a crutch for his arguments. Insanity. Give me real professional scouts, players, coaches, etc. quotes, not "some people think..." ********.

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

never felt vasyunov got enough of a shot to call that a terrible pick.

Also Jamie McBain was and is really bad, and anyone using THAT pick as an example of a missed opportunity has an agenda. Vasyunov was just coming into his own when that awful Lokomotiv tragedy happened.

For real...I don't think any single poster on these boards would do a worse job than Chere. All this hindsight stuff is just ridiculous. Most of the best-drafting teams in the NHL missed on players like Simmonds, Shea Weber, HUNDREDS more, and if Marcus Johansson had been a Devil, we'd have been complaining about his offense and inconsistency and soft play for the past 4 years. Nevermind that Josefson was almost universally rated higher than MJ.

God I hate Chere.

 

[Tundra]

Conte basically pointed out that Lou dropped the ball. Failure to adapt and foresee comes up again:

"That was a key, plus the picks we gave up for Kovalchuk and the players we gave up for Kovalchuk," Conte said. "The biggest thing for me that has hurt us the most is no compensatory picks for free agents we lost. Paul Martin, Brian Rafalski, Scott Niedermayer, Brian Gionta, Scott Gomez, Zach Parise, David Clarkson. They all would have been second-round picks.

"In the past, those compensation picks turned out to be Colin White, Paul Martin and so on. The collective bargaining agreement came along at the worst time because we had success and had to pay our players accordingly. We were hurt by drafting late, receiving no compensatory picks and just natural attrition from age."

 

[devilsblood]

Conte basically pointed out that Lou dropped the ball. Failure to adapt and foresee comes up again:

Oh dag, when I read that in the story the first time I thought that was Lou's quote.

Conte is definitely calling out Lou there.

 

[Brodeur]

Same with the Quenneville pick. Not enough offense, and now he's concussed

I wanted Barbashev, but it seems a little premature to give up on Quenneville.

Mike Hoeffel was also a terrible pick (Lou : "but...but, he's an American, and he went to College, and he's responsible defensively. Who cares about goals!?") Nick Spaling and Wayne Simmonds went right after him.

Read this about the Kings and Simmonds before complaining about the pick: http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=532739

In a nutshell, a good pick by the Kings doesn't mean everybody missed the boat.

Kirill Tulupov. Who are 4 of the next 5 players drafted? Eric Gryba, Cal Clutterbuck, Brad Marchand, and Steve Mason. Bad bad job there. This is where Lou used to find value. Not anymore

Interesting thing about Mason, he played in 12 regular season games during his draft year (497 minutes, equivalent of a little more than 8 full games). Then found himself thrust into some playoff games where he played well. The Blue Jackets weren't planning on taking him, but their goalie coach convinced Doug MacLean to take a chance on a small sample space.

Sometimes that's the maddening things about drafting goalies. Many of them just aren't the starter at 18. As much as we assume we have eyes on every single junior game, you simply might not get many views of a goalie.

The Devils basically did the same thing with Scott Wedgewood in 2010 to less sexy results.

 

[brule2000]

I never liked the Josefson pick. Another "safe" defensive forward with little offensive upside. Turns out he has 0 offense and can't stay healthy

Don't like the Matteau pick either. Because of his dad and again, little offensive upside

Same with the Quenneville pick. Not enough offense, and now he's concussed

Mike Hoeffel was also a terrible pick (Lou : "but...but, he's an American, and he went to College, and he's responsible defensively. Who cares about goals!?") Nick Spaling and Wayne Simmonds went right after him.

And when Lou does pick the offensive player it's the wrong one (Tedenby) leaving John Carlson and Tyler Ennis to go shortly after him)

And taking Vasyunov when Jamie McBain went 4 picks after (where's your American/College fetish when you need it now Lou!?) was also a major miss.

Devils have the 52nd and 54th pick in the 2nd round of the 2008 draft. Who do they pick? Brandon Burlon and Patrice Cormier. Who goes 53? Travis Hamonic. Ouch.

Kirill Tulupov. Who are 4 of the next 5 players drafted? Eric Gryba, Cal Clutterbuck, Brad Marchand, and Steve Mason. Bad bad job there. This is where Lou used to find value. Not anymore

Jeff Frazee. 2nd round pick in 2005. Who goes right after? Ondrej Pavelec, Justin Abdelkader, Paul Stastny. And then Mason Raymond a bit further down. But no, we needed Ari Ahonen v.2.0 (Lou: "But he's an AMERICAN, who's going to COLLEGE, got to stock up on those college hockey americans!")

If you really dissect it this is very bad drafting record. Maybe not an F...but probably like a D or D+

And in 1999 they took Ari Ahonen and they could have traded down to the seventh round and taken Henrik Zetterberg.

Hoeffel and Tulupov were third round picks. It's like complaining because you bought a lottery ticket in good faith and it didn't win.

 

[ForeverJerseyGirl]

The article kind of rehashes a lot of things that we already knew like the Devils have done well drafting defensemen and struggled more with drafting forwards. I'm not in general asking for stars or superstars, but some more forwards who can chip in offensively are necessary for the success of this franchise. Those type of players can be found outside the top 5 picks and even outside the first round.

It's a fair point that the only high picks the Devils have had in awhile are Adam Larsson and the pick that was traded for Cory. I guess we'll have to see what Conte does with the high pick that seems to await us in this year's draft. If he takes a forward who becomes a star I imagine the heat would fall off in considerably.

As far as particular picks go, I don't see the need to moan too much about not getting Carlson, since I'm happy overall with the defensemen that have been drafted and where the blue line seems to be headed. I'm also willing to be more patient with Matteau. He's quite a bit younger than Pearson, so it's only fair to give him a bit more time to develop before comparing him to Pearson, and I think that Matteau will at least be an NHL player.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I wanted Barbashev, but it seems a little premature to give up on Quenneville.



Read this about the Kings and Simmonds before complaining about the pick: http://kings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=532739

In a nutshell, a good pick by the Kings doesn't mean everybody missed the boat.



Interesting thing about Mason, he played in 12 regular season games during his draft year (497 minutes, equivalent of a little more than 8 full games). Then found himself thrust into some playoff games where he played well. The Blue Jackets weren't planning on taking him, but their goalie coach convinced Doug MacLean to take a chance on a small sample space.

Sometimes that's the maddening things about drafting goalies. Many of them just aren't the starter at 18. As much as we assume we have eyes on every single junior game, you simply might not get many views of a goalie.

The Devils basically did the same thing with Scott Wedgewood in 2010 to less sexy results.

Regardless that Wayne Simmonds was available, would you agree that Hoeffel was a bad pick at the time?

***To Brule above, Hoeffel was a 2nd rounder.

 

[NJDevs26]

You guys read THAT as calling out Lou?! If anything he's blaming the system change and bad timing for the Devils recent lack of depth compared to the late '90's

 

[Brodeur]

Regardless that Wayne Simmonds was available, would you agree that Hoeffel was a bad pick at the time?

At the time, I don't recall there being much of an uproar. Hoeffel didn't seem like a guy with that much upside, but seemed par for the course for a 57th overall pick. If anything at the time, I think Hoeffel was ranked a little higher by most outlets.

http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Draft/2007/predraft_ranks0536.htm

The Hockey News had Hoeffel #27. ISS had him #22 (although looking at it, that might not have been their final ranking). TSN had him #39.

Here's the snippet about Hoeffel from the NHL's 200+ page draft guide that they provided to the media.

MIKE HOEFFEL
U.S. National U-18 • USDP
6'2", 186 lbs. Wing, shoots left
Born: April 9, 1989 in North Oaks, Minnesota
Final Ranking: 22 • Mid-Term Ranking: 24 • North American Skater

Central Scouting Report: A power forward… has an excellent skating stride
and speed… has good puck pursuit… plays tough in the corners and around the
net… has a good shot with a quick release… needs to improve his puck handling
in traffic and at top speed… needs to make more consistent decisions with
the puck.

Hockey Profile: Played for Hill-Murray School in Minnesota in 2005-06, posting
73 points (27-46-73) in 30 games… won a silver medal in 2006 with the U.S.
Under-18 Selects at the Ivan Hlinka Memorial tournament in the Czech
Republic… will attend the University of Minnesota in the fall of 2007.

Personal Profile: Nickname has always been Hoef… patterns his game after
one of his favorite players, Zach Parise of the New Jersey Devils because “he is
always the hardest worker on the ice and I look up to that”… admires his dad
and credits him for having the most influence on his career “because he has
always been there for me”… his favorite hockey gift was receiving his first pair of
skates from his dad when he was five years old… his pre-game ritual includes
making sure he gets 10 minutes of quiet time alone before each game… most
memorable hockey game played: defeating White Bear in double overtime at the
Minnesota Section Finals in 2005-06 – “we had a packed house and they were
our arch rivals. It was a barn burner and a lot of fun”… favorite hockey game
watched: Western Conference playoff series between the Edmonton Oilers and the
Detroit Red Wings in 2006 – “no one thought the Oilers could win but themselves”…
if he could have dinner with any three people he would choose: his
idol, Zach Parise, tennis star Roger Federer and Brittany Snow… favorites include:
Minnesota Wild and the Pittsburgh Penguins (NHL teams), Evgeni Malkin and
Zach Parise (NHL players), “the Datsyuk move” (shootout move), Guitar Hero
(video game), Matt Damon (actor), The Bourne Identity (movie), Young Teezy
(group) and Friends (TV show).

 

[Tundra]

You guys read THAT as calling out Lou?! If anything he's blaming the system change and bad timing for the Devils recent lack of depth compared to the late '90's

How many years ago did that occur? 10? Lou just keeps letting guys walk out the door with nothing in return. At some point, you have to be cognizant of the changing landscape and adjust. Good GMs adapt. Lou stays with the Status Quo.

 

[brule2000]

Regardless that Wayne Simmonds was available, would you agree that Hoeffel was a bad pick at the time?

***To Brule above, Hoeffel was a 2nd rounder.

No I wouldn't agree Hoeffel was a bad pick at the time. He is a bad pick eight years later and were the draft held again, with eight years of impossible to foresee knowledge, they'd probably take Jamie Benn who went in the fifth round, except of course some other team with a higher draft pick would have taken him already.

 

[devilsblood]

You guys read THAT as calling out Lou?! If anything he's blaming the system change and bad timing for the Devils recent lack of depth compared to the late '90's

But how do you blame the system change? That rule is not Devils specific, everyone in the league dealt with that. The rule changed, Lou kept on with quo.

 

[NJDevs26]

How many years ago did that occur? 10? Lou just keeps letting guys walk out the door with nothing in return. At some point, you have to be cognizant of the changing landscape and adjust. Good GMs adapt. Lou stays with the Status Quo.

So because guys leave as FA's that's automatically Lou's fault?

 

[Tundra]

So because guys leave as FA's that's Lou's fault?

Of course not. But not preparing a contingency plan for when they leave is. You saw that extensive list that Conte outlined. At some point, the logical process must kick in. It's akin to a child who touches a hot stove. Eventually, through experience and sensory recall the child avoids the stove.