GDT: Devils @ Coyotes - 10:00 PM - MSG+

[My3Sons]

Sounds like everyone agrees with me. He is not playing well now.

No, he isn't. And Hischier wasn't playing well last season. The explanation is obvious. I think you have to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and see how they play when healthy. Hamilton will have all summer to rehab and regain his strength and conditioning. Hopefully he works with an appropriate personal trainer to get it together.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

No, he isn't. And Hischier wasn't playing well last season. The explanation is obvious. I think you have to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and see how they play when healthy. Hamilton will have all summer to rehab and regain his strength and conditioning. Hopefully he works with an appropriate personal trainer to get it together.

Here is my original statement -

Just a quick note our $9 mil #1 DMan only managed 1 SOG on a 6 goal night

What part does everyone disagree with?

 

[FooteBahl]

No, he isn't. And Hischier wasn't playing well last season. The explanation is obvious. I think you have to give these guys the benefit of the doubt and see how they play when healthy. Hamilton will have all summer to rehab and regain his strength and conditioning. Hopefully he works with an appropriate personal trainer to get it together.

Do art museums have fitness centers?

 

[Bleedred]

One random note about last night.

Jon Gillies was in fact dressed as the backup. I think this was the first game he was dressed for since before Hammond dressed.

Assuming Blackwood is back in the next week or so (probably after the road trip, but possibly on Tuesday in Vegas, if I had to guess), I think it's strongly possible we've seen the last of Gillies and Hammond here, unless one of Daws/Blackwood is yanked and one of those guys is dressed as the backup.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Hischier back up to a +0 plus/minus too. Pretty impressive when your team has a goal differential of like -50

and when he kills penalties too

 

[NjDevsRR]

Here is my original statement -

Just a quick note our $9 mil #1 DMan only managed 1 SOG on a 6 goal night

What part does everyone disagree with?

Because you are obviously not including context to poke at said player.

 

[OxfordDevil]

Watching on catch up, and only had the first 2 periods on in the background, but Ty Smith seems to have the puck on his stick quite a bit and appears to be playing with a bit more confidence than he has done this year. Would have been happy to see him get some pp time on the second unit on one of the power plays.

And as I type this the Coyotes score on a pp while Smith is in the box

 

[Hisch13r]

and when he kills penalties too

PK GA's don't count

 

[Whaddagoal]

Sounds like everyone agrees with me. He is not playing well now.

He's definitely not playing the way he was before the injuries. Sure hope its temporary after effects of being injured/covid, etc. and next season we will see what we saw in first 25 games of season.

Hard to say what exactly is wrong, but I will say before his injuries Dougie was driving the plays very hard, and commanding the presence on the ice he skated in. His shots, when he takes them were much cleaner and going to the right spots to get in the net. Mango had called him "The General" after the first 10 or so games. Dougie would get the puck, take it to the offensive side and do some dangerous plays towards their net.

Now, he seems more pedestrian style of playing.

I have to say, as of last 2-3 games I've noticed a few small spurts of it, coming through in the last few games (his shots haven't gone in), but he made a few rush plays OR was trying to be that 4th man up the ice with the fwds. It's just rigth now he's not as dominant as it was pre-injury.

 

[My3Sons]

Here is my original statement -

Just a quick note our $9 mil #1 DMan only managed 1 SOG on a 6 goal night

What part does everyone disagree with?

It's hard to tell your intent beyond the simple factual statement. that said, these simple factual statements are sometimes meant to imply that they apply in the bigger picture. It's a way of conflating things or oversimplifying something to make a point, sometimes unfairly. this is the sort of post someone else would have posted earlier this season on a night that Hughes or Hischier struggled. I'm not accusing you of that, but it's how some folks will probably read it.

 

[OlfactoryHughes]

sorry, not meant as an attack.

i just hate it, when i see fans from other fan bases pad the stats of their players by using only parts of the stats, where their players performed well. nearly all statistical models are more predictable with more data. eliminating data from the sample (because the assumption is they are outliers), normally has a negative effect in regards to predict future events/results.

Sports is a bit of an outlier tho, players get in a zone, heat up, and go absolute en fuego sometimes, you use sample sizes, not to pad stats, but to demonstrate exactly how much heat is currently in the kitchen. Nico is on fire.

 

[njdevils1982]

My buddy did one in 1997 that we still mention from time to time.

in all my time here never has a post made me laugh while at the same time make wretch

congratulations

 

[Camille the Eel]

PK GA's don't count

I figured that could be true. One really needs to know the details - the definitions - to understand what the stats do and don’t mean. Certainly I can see why one would exclude power plays and penalty kills in compiling the statistic. (They do exclude power play goals in one’s own favor too in compiling the stat, right?). It’s adjusting for those situations.

There is a good argument however in the other direction. That you would get a better idea of the player if you included everything that happened when they were on the ice.

After all, Nico’s plus and minus being quite even is therefore a reflection of the fact that we have been relatively good 5 on 5 this yesr.

Ant one is never going to able to “control” the teams play out of the stat, even if one does control the man advantages out. So I am not sure it wouldn’t be a more representative stat if you had the power plays and PKs in.

And if you did have those situations in, I bet Nico’s plus and minus very possibly wouldn’t look as good?

 

[Hisch13r]

I figured that could be true. One really needs to know the details - the definitions - to understand what the stats do and don’t mean. Certainly I can see why one would exclude power plays and penalty kills in compiling the statistic. (They do exclude power play goals in one’s own favor too in compiling the stat, right?). It’s adjusting for those situations.

There is a good argument however in the other direction. That you would get a better idea of the player if you included everything that happened when they were on the ice.

After all, Nico’s plus and minus being quite even is therefore a reflection of the fact that we have been relatively good 5 on 5 this yesr.

Ant one is never going to able to “control” the teams play out of the stat, even if one does control the man advantages out. So I am not sure it wouldn’t be a more representative stat if you had the power plays and PKs in.

And if you did have those situations in, I bet Nico’s plus and minus very possibly wouldn’t look as good?

I believe they include both short handed goals as minuses for the team that gets scored on and pluses for the team that scores.

I don't think there's a good argument the other way. 3 players could be equals at ES but one of them is only used on the PP, one is only used at ES, and the other is only used on the PK. That would artificially make some players look better than others just because of their usage. 5v5 +/- is the most useful to me but even then I don't like it displayed as a +/- and think a % is the better one to look at.

AS Nico is +4 at 80-76. PK he's -17 at 2-19. +16 on the PP at 23-7

 

[Camille the Eel]

I believe they include both short handed goals as minuses for the team that gets scored on and pluses for the team that scores.

I don't think there's a good argument the other way. 3 players could be equals at ES but one of them is only used on the PP, one is only used at ES, and the other is only used on the PK. That would artificially make some players look better than others just because of their usage. 5v5 +/- is the most useful to me but even then I don't like it displayed as a +/- and think a % is the better one to look at.

AS Nico is +4 at 80-76. PK he's -17 at 2-19. +16 on the PP at 23-7

if I read that correctly, -17 and +16 would just about cancel each other out. So that his overall plus and minus wouldn’t change much (-1) if you included both situations?

That is interesting.

But also, the statistic always reflects what the team is doing and the person using it therefore has to keep that in mind.

I wonder what the proper use of plus and minus is? If you’ve been watching the player and the club, what more it really tells you that is useful?

I am agnostic here as to that.