Post-Game Talk: Devils @ Caps 11/14/14 7PM Caps lose 1-0

[Blades of Steel]

1st time poster, long time fan (30+ years), lurker of the board for several years.

Seems Trotz lets the other teams dictate the style of play to a certain extent. I think our veterans, especially forwards, take periods of time off and even whole periods off during games. Amazing the sense of urgency the team had after the Devils scored.

Holtby made a boneheaded play and has had his issues for sure but this team has deeper problems imo. I just don't see the effort and sacrifice needed from the team to win on a consistent basis. I watch a lot of hockey and other games and I see a tremendous amount of effort come from other teams that I just don't see in the Caps.

Oh well...jmi.

Welcome..

You know how you win games? You play in your opponents face at all times in every inch of the ice. The Capitals do not do this enough, you're right.. there is a lot of going through the motions. You WIN your shift, one shift at a time. This just doesn't happen.

I see very little killer instinct until there is 1 minute left in the game and they're desperate. If you play like that the whole game you win. period.

 

[CapsJunkie]

Hole-bee
held by hole-e-o
Braids
hole-beast
hoe down
he gets scored on more then jenna Jameson his Beautiful Gretzky like pass to Callimari

 

[KevinM]

He gave the other team the game... like literally handed it to them... He's the reason we lost tonight..

He let up one goal. If Green or Carlson made a bad pinch which led to a 2 on 1 that resulted in a goal we'd still blame Holtby for not making a timely save. It didn't happen that way tonight, granted, but he isn't the only reason we lost.

If I were to ask you how many points your team deserved on any given night where they failed to put up one goal you would probably agree that the number is close to zero and that is not solely on the goalie regardless of circumstance.

 

[bWo*]

This whole team needs to smell chocolate fumes

 

[g00n]

I would accept your reasoning if offensively these two teams were similar. But they are not. For crying out loud their top line averages 40 years old.

The way Trotz had them playing tonight is inexcusable. This team needs to be the one dictating plays.

NJ put out a pretty good way to counter us.

We are not the same offensive powerhouse that won the Prez Trophy. Over 16 games our goal differential is +4. we are not blowing teams away, and we haven't for years. This was two teams playing conservative styles coming together to SEE WHO BLINKS FIRST. We blinked, they didn't.

If you look at the stat line both teams had very similar stats. In the standings we're also similar. We do not outclass NJ enough to look down on them and essentially say "well we shouldn't be in tie game situations with them late anyway".

Holtby is not rising to the challenge when it matters most. Time and again. The guy on the other side of the rink is getting it done while he isn't. Both guys are being paid to do a job. Holtby is making mental errors under pressure. He's losing his concentration at key points. It's a pattern. All the great stops early when there's less pressure don't erase that. You don't applaud the bus driver for picking up every kid on time before he drove them all off a cliff. Some mistakes outweigh the smaller, more numerous parts of the job.

 

[Blades of Steel]

Thanks for the bus driver quote. Much needed, and true.

 

[CapsJunkie]

We are not the same offensive powerhouse that won the Prez Trophy. Over 16 games our goal differential is +4. we are not blowing teams away, and we haven't for years. This was two teams playing conservative styles coming together to SEE WHO BLINKS FIRST. We blinked, they didn't.

If you look at the stat line both teams had very similar stats. In the standings we're also similar. We do not outclass NJ enough to look down on them and essentially say "well we shouldn't be in tie game situations with them late anyway".

Holtby is not rising to the challenge when it matters most. Time and again. The guy on the other side of the rink is getting it done while he isn't. Both guys are being paid to do a job. Holtby is making mental errors under pressure. He's losing his concentration at key points. It's a pattern. All the great stops early when there's less pressure don't erase that. You don't applaud the bus driver for picking up every kid on time before he drove them all off a cliff. Some mistakes outweigh the smaller, more numerous parts of the job.

 

[g00n]

Thanks for the bus driver quote. Much needed, and true.

Ha, yeah. I wish it wasn't true but it is. I took a lot of **** here from some posters for being a "Holtby apologist" in the past. But this isn't the same player. His confidence is gone. I've been waiting for Korn to work some magic but it really looks like it's getting worse and a shrink is what's needed.

I believe he's thinking about the situation too much late in periods and games....just trying to get off the ice, get to the locker room...get safe. Instead of just playing and trusting his instincts he's letting his mind interfere with his abilities. That's why it mostly shows up at the end of periods, after we score and the other team presses, and late in close games.

NOBODY criticizing Holtby for his gaffes is saying the Caps played great as a team. Most nights they don't. But most nights we're also seeing our #1 goaltender --for whom we've shipped out several others-- gag in the clutch. That is not just about one goal or even one game. That's about whether or not the entire foundation is cracked.

 

[Langway]

Welcome.

I just don't see the effort and sacrifice needed from the team to win on a consistent basis. I watch a lot of hockey and other games and I see a tremendous amount of effort come from other teams that I just don't see in the Caps.

So true. What the Caps have is a seemingly very conservative game plan to make the game a boring, choppy, free-flowing hell and from there to pounce as opportunities present themselves. It's basically training wheels for a bunch of lazy morons and/or inexperienced players experimenting as NHLers.

 

[KevinM]

Welcome.

So true. What the Caps have is a seemingly very conservative game plan to make the game a boring, choppy hell and from there to pounce as opportunities present themselves. It's basically training wheels for a bunch of lazy morons.

Sooooooooooooo Hunter hockey?

 

[Langway]

Yes, because development seems to be mostly a foreign concept. Not truly Hunter Hockey because they do possess the puck more but a lot of it is uneventful.

Aside from Johansson shooting more I don't see much new happening on an individual level. The fall of the Ward line is concerning. Another Chimera OZ penalty or two and he'll hit Trotz's **** list (if he's not there already).

 

[Monsterrain]

That play tonight is nothing new. Hes been doing this for years. He plays around with the puck way too much. I cant believe the coaches let him keep doing this. Can someone tell him he cant handle the puck?

 

[Monsterrain]

Yes, because development seems to be mostly a foreign concept. Not truly Hunter Hockey because they do possess the puck more but a lot of it is uneventful.

Aside from Johansson shooting more I don't see much new happening on an individual level. The fall of the Ward line is concerning. Another Chimera OZ penalty or two and he'll hit Trotz's **** list (if he's not there already).

True. Mojo and bura have been pleasent surprises but other than that, not much has changed.

 

[Atlas]

A yawner of a game.

The bad:

Holtby's gaffe. That's a mistake that elite goalies rarely make. If it were just one gaffe I wouldn't worry. But that his head is in a place where he could make that gaffe worries me. He's not terrible by any means. But, I think, Holtby isn't the answer at goalie either.


The good:

Schmidt is developing by leaps and bounds. He has shifts where he looks like an all-star. And his D was solid. His passes don't get picked off much anymore.

Burakovsky made a few slick plays and held his position down.

Kuzy didn't accomplish much but he looked more comfortable out there tonight. He had a few good shifts that almost became scoring chances.


The mediocre:

Everyone else. Backstrom is really disappointing me. He is not the dynamo that we need at 1C. Sure, he's a pt/game player but he isn't a leader. He doesn't have the nads to be a 1C for a Stanley Cup champ. There, I said it. Feels good to get that off my chest. Who could we get for Backstrom and Green?

Green was good lugging the puck up ice as usual. He might light it up in Pittsburgh but I don't see him ever being a great offensive D again in DC. He is not at all dominant. But he is making "I'm dominant" money. Im ready to move on from Green.

Fehr tried, like always—he had a few good plumber shifts. But he's not a reliable top 6 winger.


Other than Ovie, we really don't have any "go to" guys. Burakovsky and Kuzy might become those guys in the future. Otherwise, lots of guys are saying, "Let George do it."

 

[FloridaCap]

Were is he going to play? Wilson has his spot on the top line and the second line is the most constant on the team.

I doubt we can give Ward the money he wants this summer, so trade him while you still can. Move Brouwer to the 3rd line where he belongs, and then there's a spot in the top-6 for a real forward and not one who just inflates his stats with gimme goals from 5' out on the powerplay.

 

[FloridaCap]

A yawner of a game.

The bad:

Holtby's gaffe. That's a mistake that elite goalies rarely make. If it were just one gaffe I wouldn't worry. But that his head is in a place where he could make that gaffe worries me. He's not terrible by any means. But, I think, Holtby isn't the answer at goalie either.


The good:

Schmidt is developing by leaps and bounds. He has shifts where he looks like an all-star. And his D was solid. His passes don't get picked off much anymore.

Burakovsky made a few slick plays and held his position down.

Kuzy didn't accomplish much but he looked more comfortable out there tonight. He had a few good shifts that almost became scoring chances.


The mediocre:

Everyone else. Backstrom is really disappointing me. He is not the dynamo that we need at 1C. Sure, he's a pt/game player but he isn't a leader. He doesn't have the nads to be a 1C for a Stanley Cup champ. There, I said it. Feels good to get that off my chest. Who could we get for Backstrom and Green?

Green was good lugging the puck up ice as usual. He might light it up in Pittsburgh but I don't see him ever being a great offensive D again in DC. He is not at all dominant. But he is making "I'm dominant" money. Im ready to move on from Green.

Fehr tried, like always—he had a few good plumber shifts. But he's not a reliable top 6 winger.


Other than Ovie, we really don't have any "go to" guys. Burakovsky and Kuzy might become those guys in the future. Otherwise, lots of guys are saying, "Let George do it."

I'm on the opposite side, I think. I truly think Backstrom is a far superior player than Ovechkin in just about every facet of the game, unfortunately. The only time Ovi is a "go to" guy like you said, is on the PP. Backstrom is the only player on the team I trust to make the correct play in all three zones at any given moment.

Ovechkin's flaws over the years have become glaring and frankly, saddening. He loses every single battle along the wall, he can't cycle at all, his passes are average at best, and every time he shoots off the rush it's easily blocked. Simply put, out of all the plays you'd expect a generational great to make, he makes about 2/10 of them. However, his defense has improved greatly this season.

Backstrom is fantastic at the puck possession game that the NHL has gone to these days, and Ovechkin is absolutely terrible at it. Thank god he still has his shot at least, because as it turns out, Forsythe's awesome PP is horrific without Ovechkin at that left circle.

I'm not saying Ovechkin is horrible, and I don't hate him. He's still my favorite player... but he simply doesn't make the plays you'd expect a player of his caliber to make. Maybe that's because he's washed up, or maybe that's because every coach refuses to give him a good RW, thinking he can carry their sorry ass like he did when he was 23. Who knows. I hope it's the latter, and when he's given a real RW, he excels at EV. I really hope.

 

[Carlzner]

I think that everybody blaming this loss on Holtby is from Kent County.

 

[mad4comp]

He let up one goal. If Green or Carlson made a bad pinch which led to a 2 on 1 that resulted in a goal we'd still blame Holtby for not making a timely save. It didn't happen that way tonight, granted, but he isn't the only reason we lost.

Stop trying to pass of what Holtby did like he missed a routine save.. He looked at the other team's player in the eyes... gave him the puck and let him score. The way he gave up the goal makes this loss fall entirely on his shoulders.. Had he just missed a routine save or had the puck bounce in off of him, I'd agree with you, but that is not what happened. He was the only reason we lost tonight.

If I were to ask you how many points your team deserved on any given night where they failed to put up one goal you would probably agree that the number is close to zero and that is not solely on the goalie regardless of circumstance.

No I don't agree... if you told me we scored 0 goals, but also kept the other team off the scoreboard, I'd as we come away with 2 points more often than not... especially against a team like NJ. Unfortunately Holtby can't seem to keep the other team off the scoreboard.

 

[Mickstix]

Wow, what a waste of a game.. Holeby with another WTF moment..

Just sad, pathetic offensive urgency.. Possession times and score sheet stats about "chances" might look decent, but I saw maybe 3 decent chances to score a goal. And 2 of those were Brown and Beagle for gods sake.. Trotz needs to find someone other than Kuznetzov and Fehr to send his message.. Chimera is god awful this year.. Once were healthy he really needs a night off to watch from the press box..

That and we may need Holts to take an ankle sprain or something, so we can send him to Hershey for a rehab stint.. Let him get his head right riding around the country on a bus for a week or two.. If he can't get it straight after that they need to start facing facts that he's just broken beyond repair.. Last year has taken a toll on him and Im not seeing much rebound.. Oh and the beard.. Just shave it off already.. Looks ****ing ret..stupid!

rant over..

 

[Acallabeth]

That was ONE big mistake on our goalie. ONE. You're going to tell me that we as a team have nothing to make up for against New Jersey? A team whose top line is made of a bunch of player whose primes were 20 friggin years ago?

I'm saying that the only goal of the game was our goalie's mistake that you don't even do in your 1st practice. You can spin it however you want, Holtby failed the team.
Another issue is that it's a systematic problem with Holtby. He does this often: overplays the puck and tries to make risky passes. It's not always fine for a top 6 center in the position attack, and if you're the goalie, it's a goal against 50% of the time.

I'm on the opposite side, I think. I truly think Backstrom is a far superior player than Ovechkin in just about every facet of the game, unfortunately. The only time Ovi is a "go to" guy like you said, is on the PP. Backstrom is the only player on the team I trust to make the correct play in all three zones at any given moment.

Honestly I think that Johansson has been outplaying Nick so far this year.

Ovechkin's flaws over the years have become glaring and frankly, saddening. He loses every single battle along the wall, he can't cycle at all, his passes are average at best, and every time he shoots off the rush it's easily blocked. Simply put, out of all the plays you'd expect a generational great to make, he makes about 2/10 of them.

The bolded is just a head scratcher.
And when does Ovechkin shoot on the rush? Every attack he sprints to the offensive blue line and then waits for 5 seconds until Backstrom passes to him

 

[FloridaCap]

I'm saying that the only goal of the game was our goalie's mistake that you don't even do in your 1st practice. You can spin it however you want, Holtby failed the team.
Another issue is that it's a systematic problem with Holtby. He does this often: overplays the puck and tries to make risky passes. It's not always fine for a top 6 center in the position attack, and if you're the goalie, it's a goal against 50% of the time.


Honestly I think that Johansson has been outplaying Nick so far this year.


The bolded is just a head scratcher.
And when does Ovechkin shoot on the rush? Every attack he sprints to the offensive blue line and then waits for 5 seconds until Backstrom passes to him

How is it a head scratcher? Watch him when his line cycles (which they do too often with ****ing Beagle on the line). He's never in the right spot, and when the puck comes to him, he often loses it.

A couple times a game he'll try to fly into the zone off the LW like he used to do a rip a shot through the D's legs and it gets blocked every single time.

He needs an elite RW. Who that will be, I don't know, but we need to try to find it. Kuznetsov, Burakovsky, someone via trade, whatever.

I'm also not seeing Mojo outplaying Backstrom. Mojo has been the recipient of some very good luck. Not to say he isn't playing well, but he and Nick aren't even on the same planet in terms of effectiveness.

 

[Atlas]

I'm on the opposite side, I think. I truly think Backstrom is a far superior player than Ovechkin in just about every facet of the game, unfortunately. The only time Ovi is a "go to" guy like you said, is on the PP. Backstrom is the only player on the team I trust to make the correct play in all three zones at any given moment.

Ovechkin's flaws over the years have become glaring and frankly, saddening. He loses every single battle along the wall, he can't cycle at all, his passes are average at best, and every time he shoots off the rush it's easily blocked. Simply put, out of all the plays you'd expect a generational great to make, he makes about 2/10 of them. However, his defense has improved greatly this season.

Backstrom is fantastic at the puck possession game that the NHL has gone to these days, and Ovechkin is absolutely terrible at it. Thank god he still has his shot at least, because as it turns out, Forsythe's awesome PP is horrific without Ovechkin at that left circle.

I'm not saying Ovechkin is horrible, and I don't hate him. He's still my favorite player... but he simply doesn't make the plays you'd expect a player of his caliber to make. Maybe that's because he's washed up, or maybe that's because every coach refuses to give him a good RW, thinking he can carry their sorry ass like he did when he was 23. Who knows. I hope it's the latter, and when he's given a real RW, he excels at EV. I really hope.

You make a lot of good points. Backstrom is an excellent player. He is smart, consistent, skilled. He just isn't much of a goal scorer. That's his Achilles heel. He isn't Joe Sakic and we are paying him Joe Sakic money. I don't think we can afford to have Backstrom as our "1B" Center and I don't think he's good enough to compete with the top centers. That's why he'd be trade bait for me.

Ovie isn't as dynamic as he once was but he is still a threat to score 60 goals a year. He won't do that with the team as it is but if he had a couple of other goal scoring threats on the team he could hit 60. That ain't nothing to sneeze at.

What are the expected goal totals this year? My guess:

Ovie 40
Backstrom 21
Mojo 23
Brouwer 17
Fehr 10 (with 2 hat tricks)
Burakovsky 18
Green 12
Carlson 8
Kuzy 12


That's a weak crop of goal scorers any way you slice it. Ovie needs help.

 

[FloridaCap]

You make a lot of good points. Backstrom is an excellent player. He is smart, consistent, skilled. He just isn't much of a goal scorer. That's his Achilles heel. He isn't Joe Sakic and we are paying him Joe Sakic money. I don't think we can afford to have Backstrom as our "1B" Center and I don't think he's good enough to compete with the top centers. That's why he'd be trade bait for me.

Ovie isn't as dynamic as he once was but he is still a threat to score 60 goals a year. He won't do that with the team as it is but if he had a couple of other goal scoring threats on the team he could hit 60. That ain't nothing to sneeze at.

What are the expected goal totals this year? My guess:

Ovie 40
Backstrom 21
Mojo 23
Brouwer 17
Fehr 10 (with 2 hat tricks)
Burakovsky 18
Green 12
Carlson 8
Kuzy 12
Ward 22


That's a weak crop of goal scorers any way you slice it. Ovie needs help.

No doubt that Backstrom lacks goal-scoring ability, but again, I also think that may be a product of having dead weight at RW. Ovechkin is a decent passer, but isn't really a playmaker. Pair that with a RW who sucks and Backstrom not taking shots by himself, and you have a C that puts up the goal totals Backstrom does. If we had a RW that could occasionally set him up, I think he could easily be a 20-25 goal guy.

I'd take Backstrom over the vast majority of centers in this league, goal-scoring flaw and all. When he has the puck, everything slows down...and that's rare. Regarding his contract, I think his contract is excellent for the team. Is Patrick Kane or Toews really worth $10.5M when Backstrom is making $6.7M? I'd rather have Nick at $6.7, personally.

My goal guesses would be:

Ovechkin 42
Backstrom 16
Mojo 18
Brouwer 18
Fehr 9
Burakovsky 14
Green 13
Carlson 10
Kuznetsov 7

That's given their current roles. If Kuznetsov was moved to 1RW, I think he could easily be a 20/40=60 type of player this season (although obviously wouldn't reach those #s with a lower amount of games).

 

[artilector]

IMO.. Backstrom is a decent but questionable 1C at ES, since he doesn't have the necessary speed & aggression, still doesn't seem to have great chemistry with Ovi, and in limited time away from #8 hasn't really done anything at ES, either, at least since the Semin years.

But.. I think he's definitely not the biggest problem, so it doesn't make sense to start rearranging the pieces with him.

At the same time, there's no question that in order for the team to have a chance, Ovi & Nick need to generate consistent offense at even strength. Try Wilson, try anybody, try splitting them up, try getting another winger if you must, just can't have them quiet for 59 mins and then maybe Ovi scores on a one-timer. Until those guys get going at ES, there's not much that the Caps can hope for.

They showed a flash of dominance early on, but now everything has regressed to the usual level of the last few years. As much as it would be nice if Wilson could help, it will be difficult for him to make enough of a difference. I hope Trotz will experiment more with splitting them up.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Uh forgetting ward?