Post-Game Talk: Devils at Rangers 12/7/13

[fredrikstad]

More concerning than anything in my opinion, is how poorly they perform on home ice.

They have the road record of a very successful team, and a home record of a very poor team.

My 2 cents on this, is that AV actually try to get his team to play hockey, fun ,entertaining and skilled hockey. And that is very hard to do on Garden slush ice surface.

 

[Riche16]

Well that was ugly. I'll take the point and run though. That kicked in goal really changed the complexion of the game. Sucks.

The game changed when Nash missed the open net to go up 3-0.

After that the Devs fought back and got it within one goal.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Jesus Christ, let's just throw out everything he's done in his career to this point because he's had a bad quarter of a season.

Some of you guys...I wonder if you even were old enough to remember what Rangers hockey was like before the lockout.

I have had seasons since 98, so I would say I am old enough to remember. BTW, The Contract has been inconsistent and overrated during most of that time.

2nd time in 8 days they got him a lead going into the 3rd and he couldn't get them home. A great goalie says, "You got me a lead, now I will do the rest" and gets them the two points.

But, I would love to argue about this today, but need to get the Xmas stuff up before 1pm. Don't worry, we have the next 7 years to continue this as he is going to continue to be inconsistent and disappoint us for the next 7 years.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Good point. One of the most overrated players in recent history by this organization. He could bring back some nice pieces.

Actually, the most overrated player in recent history in this organization is the player in your avatar.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I don't think AV is a terrible choice. He just doesn't have a lot to work with. If the Rangers keep on going the .500 route, then a change will happen sooner or later. Someone will get traded and hopefully it'll benefit the team.

Tortorella didnt have a lot to work with either, but he dealt with it a little better. He gave his best players big minutes. This rolling 4 lines stuff is getting old with AV, especially because he doesnt have the quality of forwards to do it effectively.

But perhaps most importantly, there used to be a mandate that if you didnt play hard and play with passion, you didnt play. This is a .500 team, and they dont even do it colorfully.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Actually, the most overrated player in recent history in this organization is the player in your avatar.

By the time its all said and done, Lundqvist will be a top 5 all-time Ranger. You need to find a clue, quickly.

 

[The Gloaming]

Actually, the most overrated player in recent history in this organization is the player in your avatar.

You mean the team MVP the last 8 years?

 

[patnyrnyg]

By the time its all said and done, Lundqvist will be a top 5 all-time Ranger. You need to find a clue, quickly.

No, he won't. He'll be the most overrated of all time. Oh wait, I think another 4th liner just scored on him while I was typing this.

 

[patnyrnyg]

You mean the team MVP the last 8 years?

That is more a knock on the rest of the team. BTW, Jagr was the MVP during Lundqvist's first 2 or 3 years.

 

[The Gloaming]

No, he won't. He'll be the most overrated of all time. Oh wait, I think another 4th liner just scored on him while I was typing this.

You're so clever.

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Hank had every opportunity to get that game for us and he failed.

That's just a fact.

There were plenty of other fails for the rest of the team, but there were 2 save opportunities that he should have made. And if he does, we win.

That is the plight of the goal tender.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Tortorella didnt have a lot to work with either, but he dealt with it a little better. He gave his best players big minutes. This rolling 4 lines stuff is getting old with AV, especially because he doesnt have the quality of forwards to do it effectively.

But perhaps most importantly, there used to be a mandate that if you didnt play hard and play with passion, you didnt play. This is a .500 team, and they dont even do it colorfully.

Oh yeah, it was wonderful. That is why the top-2 lines were completely shot by the end of the season. If lundqvist makes 2 saves that an average goaltender makes, let alone a top-5 player in the history of the franchise and highest paid goalie to be, then they win the game.

 

[JCrusher*]

Hank had every opportunity to get that game for us and he failed.

That's just a fact.

There were plenty of other fails for the rest of the team, but there were 2 save opportunities that he should have made. And if he does, we win.

That is the plight of the goal tender.

I dont blame everything on hank because both john moore and callahan made his life much tougher. However hank hanst been close to his usual self this season esepcially against the devils

 

[OverTheCap]

Eh, the Kings were playing some ****** hockey during that regular season. That said, you could have made a legitimate case as the time they were underachieving offensively. Mike Richards had a pedestrian regular season - the Rangers don't have a proven star center like that who is currently underachieving, and a center duo of Derek Stepan and Brad Richards is not comparable to a combo of Anze Kopitar and Mike Richards. They had also not acquired Jeff Carter until the deadline, and that was a huge factor in their cup run.

Maybe if Callahan, Girardi, Staal, and Hank pull their heads out of their butts, we'd start closing out some of these games.

I know "anything can happen" is a popular sentiment around here but I am just not seeing the comparison to the Kings. Yes, the Rangers are underachieving, but if or when this team does reach its potential I still don't think they are cup caliber - not enough talent or grit in this group, and they aren't a player away from the cup like when the Kings acquired Carter.

That Kings squad also had tons of players who had either recently been to the finals (Richards, Carter, Gagne, Greene, Stoll) or had already won a cup (Scuderi, Williams, Penner, Fraser). After underachieving that season, I think drawing on that playoff experience was huge for them, and I have more confidence that a team like that could pull it together come playoff time rather than the Rangers who have only one player who has appeared in the finals or won the cup.

If anything, so far this year's team reminds me of the 2009-10 Rangers. Inconsistent, hovering around .500, a few promising young players but also some players who don't really fit, team camaraderie/leadership isn't evident. Hopefully Sather won't hesitate to trade some of the players with expiring contracts.

 

[JCrusher*]

Oh yeah, it was wonderful. That is why the top-2 lines were completely shot by the end of the season. If lundqvist makes 2 saves that an average goaltender makes, let alone a top-5 player in the history of the franchise and highest paid goalie to be, then they win the game.

Exactly. Look Torts did a decent job but it was time for him to go.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Oh yeah, it was wonderful. That is why the top-2 lines were completely shot by the end of the season. If lundqvist makes 2 saves that an average goaltender makes, let alone a top-5 player in the history of the franchise and highest paid goalie to be, then they win the game.

Oh, you mean the Eastern Conference Finals, something this team wouldnt sniff in their wildest dreams?

You like to lie the blame at the feet of Lundqvist every game, you're a simpleton - I get that.

Hes not at his best consistently lately, but maybe the team in front of him could help out once in a while -- and not collapse like a house of cards after a questionable goal. I think, after 8 years of incredible play, he deserves that once in a while.

 

[messiah]

Is this legit?


If it is, that's some bush league ****. Yeah, because of a few weak goals, it negates Lundqvist's consistently elite play for the last 8 years. Long before DeBoer was embarrassing himself in Florida and was still coaching in juniors, Lundqvist was the best goalie in the league then and still is now. A bad game, a few bad goals, even a bad stretch of games doesn't change that. A coach chirping a player about his contract, whether off the record or not (shouldn't be saying it around anyone who would repeat it) is extremely bush league.

Well if they say broduer is the best goalie ever ? Lundqvist held a dominating 23-7-5 record against Martin Brodeur so i guess there right the king sucks

 

[Blueshirt Special]

Exactly. Look Torts did a decent job but it was time for him to go.

I think Torts did the best that could have been done with the team as constructed. If he didn't push them as hard as he did and play that horrible system, we never make it to the ECF. It was ugly.

But this team (still) does not have thr RIGHT players.

AV has a different style but it doesn't matter. We do not have the right combination of players in the required positions to win enough to get us there.

What we have is a mish-mosh of talented and semi-talented players who as individuals are mostly good players in their own right, plus a few hacks, and borderline NHLers.

There is no cohesion. Players we have for the most part do not compliment each other in game play.

This is the problem with Sather's organization. We look for good players instead of the RIGHT players.

 

[JCrusher*]

I think Torts did the best that could have been done with the team as constructed. If he didn't push them as hard as he did and play that horrible system, we never make it to the ECF. It was ugly.

But this team (still) does not have thr RIGHT players.

AV has a different style but it doesn't matter. We do not have the right combination of players in the required positions to win enough to get us there.

What we have is a mish-mosh of talented and semi-talented players who as individuals are mostly good players in their own right, plus a few hacks, and borderline NHLers.

There is no cohesion. Players we have for the most part do not compliment each other in game play.

This is the problem with Sather's organization. We look for good players instead of the RIGHT players.

Hank was the main reason we got to the ECF. Also kreider coming on during those playoffs was huge. without those 2 we probably would have lost to ottawa

 

[McD27]

As of tonight we are in a playoff spot, yet we'd be picking at 12 in the draft. Very weird

Hank was the main reason we got to the ECF. Also kreider coming on during those playoffs was huge. without those 2 we probably would have lost to ottawa

I think he was the main reason why we didn't beat the devils and make it to the SCF. He was so bad in game 5 at home vs the devils and was outplayed by Marty in the series. Like patnyrnyg, I had seasons since 93 and hank is overrated. Let's see how the next 8 years play out. 8.5 mio for a goalie is ridiculous.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Goddammit **** you anyway rangers I wanna go play hockey I'm out. Should win in regulation against the devils. (im sure they'll be so upset I don't watch OT lol).

I was the embodiment of the Rongos out there last night. What a ****show performance I put out there. Still 80x more fun than most of the games they've slogged through this season. On the radio LaGreca and some lady were annihilating the team and especially Lundqvist/Callahan

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I don't know how any of you can blame a player. That "goal" was not a goal, and completely flipped momentum in the game. Rangers won in regulation in my mind.

Good teams don't let momentum flip when they're 0-2 against a rival team that loses all the time

 

[TheTakedown]

Look at what Boston did last night. They were losing 2-1 at home to a team they despise, had two of their best players take headshots, and in front of their home fans, staged a rally and won.

I hate to say it, but all 4 Boston teams have a ton of pride and a sense of teamwork. Our NY teams are just a bunch of dudes getting a paycheck with no balls.

Dorsett, Kreider, MZA and McDonagh are the ONLY guys who have consistently played with intensity night in and out.

It's very frustrating to see. All the big name stars in this town are frauds who could care less about the uniform, the city or the fans. And this isn't a rant because of a 4-3 OT loss.

This city has been shortchanged by its sports teams. One can only hope it's not the precursor to a decades worth of half-assery

Not going to lie, that is a core I would build around...

Keep both Goaltenders

Dump Nash for an actual goal scorer, not his finesse "I'm a power forward" ********. Drop all the dead weight in Boyle, Pyatt, Pouliot, etc. Trade Girardi and Callahan at the deadline for some of these assets. Pull up ONE to THREE players from the farm in Miller, McIlrath, possible Kristo. Evaluate the currently employed defensive roster and see who fits, and who does not (as much as I hate MDZ, it's possible he can work, where as guys like Staal need to go... That point blank pass he missed yesterday was just garbage. That could have and should have been an early 3rd period go ahead goal)

Acquire some working pieces for a system AV wants to implement, and then start up again.

In all honesty, it's not a MASSIVE rebuild. Just a re-tooling

 

[broadwayblue]

Not going to lie, that is a core I would build around...

Keep both Goaltenders

Dump Nash for an actual goal scorer, not his finesse "I'm a power forward" ********. Drop all the dead weight in Boyle, Pyatt, Pouliot, etc. Trade Girardi and Callahan at the deadline for some of these assets. Pull up ONE to THREE players from the farm in Miller, McIlrath, possible Kristo. Evaluate the currently employed defensive roster and see who fits, and who does not (as much as I hate MDZ, it's possible he can work, where as guys like Staal need to go... That point blank pass he missed yesterday was just garbage. That could have and should have been an early 3rd period go ahead goal)

Acquire some working pieces for a system AV wants to implement, and then start up again.

In all honesty, it's not a MASSIVE rebuild. Just a re-tooling

Dumping Nash and trading one of our best Dmen as well as our captain makes it more than a re-tooling.

 

[Ola]

A couple of things I really did not like about our play last night and lately.

1. Our defensive play

This was illustrated by NJDs second goal. Jagr has the puck behind our net. Moving like a early 20th centuary Battleship. McD is on his back. He is NO REAL THREAT down there. But of just playing it safe, Danny Girardi comes flying at him on his knees with the stick along the ice trying to pull of some crazy move to prevent a pass infront of the net. JJ just puts the puck on the net and Zajac gets a slam-dunk.

Look at NJD at the other end. They are playing great defense for sure. But, its not magic. They make sure to take away the best chances and not get themselves out of position. We had this problem last year too against them and have never really been good at it. And its definitely a big problem with Girardi.

They have the puck behind our net and we have 5 guys in our end. Why take yourself out of position with that play?

And it happend like 7-8 times in that game. We panic in sitautions that should be no real threat.

That really disappoints me. And again its our core that just makes unacceptable plays. People love to point at plays and talk about how players should "sit" for them. If there are such plays, that one by Girardi is definitely a example of one. There is no need whatsoever for him to go down flopping like that against a player we have under controll and that is no threat.

2. Our top level offensive talent

There were no space yesterday. NJD played perfect defensive hockey.

Not.

There are no such thing as a perfect defensive game and you can never take away all ice. NJD takes away the ice players most often goes to. And takes away the chances that normally occurs in a game.

The absolute top offensive talent in this game can read a defense like that like a book and makes will go the open areas and find plays that can open a defense up. So many times NJDs defense just stood still in a square infront of Brouder and waited for our guys to skate right into them. If you come at a square like that with speed you will crash and burn. But if you just slow things down, and goes into the holes between their players, they will have to come at you and you open things up.

I've seen a few games with NJD this year and they have been just as solid for big portions of those games, but a Bäckström for example, or another player like that, has most of the time been able to really make them uncomfortable and been able to poke holes in their defense.

That really disappoints me. Its not rocket science. Richards; Nash; Stepan; these guys just must take responsibility here and get the work done. We played a team that played great defense, but there were undoubtedly man-against-man battles out there that should have been won. When you do that, you make NJD uncomfortable and they don't get that energy offensively.