Devils 2020-21 team discussion (news, notes and speculation) - part XIX

[Azathoth]

Is Gusev a slow starter or just a player who accumulated points in games that were for the most part meaningless?

Yes.

 

[billingtons ghost]

P.K. Subban Is Struggling In All Facets of the Game for the Devils

Not that this is news or anything, but even I didn't think it was that bad.

He really isn't that bad - and I definitely do not like protecting the guy. It's just more stats fodder that misses the mark.

Murray struggled the last two games and help expose Subban.

He's terrible, and I would love for Seattle to claim him - but he's eaten pretty big minutes pretty effectively in better than half of our games so far.

 

[goonybird]

Is Gusev a slow starter or just a player who accumulated points in games that were for the most part meaningless?

 

[Hisch13r]

Just dropping in, quick question. What happened to Gusev's point totals?

Well he started the season with Zacha as his center and Johnsson as his other wing. All 3 of those guys are passengers and aren’t capable of being the primary line driver. Then things got shuffled around a bit. I don’t remember exactly what the lines were but he wasn’t playing with talent. Then the last 2 games he was with Zajac. Those 2 were 2/3rds of a great line last year but they had Coleman as the other guy. This year in their 2 games they’ve had Maltsev who isn’t good at offense. Then Kuokkanen who has offensive talent but is far from a shooter. 2 guys who are very much not up to filling Coleman’s shoes.

Gusev might be the most unique player in the league. He isn’t someone who you can just plug in anywhere and expect to work. He needs to play with talented guys and he needs someone who can be that primary line driver. If you put in the right spot he can be amazing. If you don’t then he will be awful.

 

[Nubmer6]

Well he started the season with Zacha as his center and Johnsson as his other wing. All 3 of those guys are passengers and aren’t capable of being the primary line driver. Then things got shuffled around a bit. I don’t remember exactly what the lines were but he wasn’t playing with talent. Then the last 2 games he was with Zajac. Those 2 were 2/3rds of a great line last year but they had Coleman as the other guy. This year in their 2 games they’ve had Maltsev who isn’t good at offense. Then Kuokkanen who has offensive talent but is far from a shooter. 2 guys who are very much not up to filling Coleman’s shoes.

Gusev might be the most unique player in the league. He isn’t someone who you can just plug in anywhere and expect to work. He needs to play with talented guys and he needs someone who can be that primary line driver. If you put in the right spot he can be amazing. If you don’t then he will be awful.

I actually have hopes Sharangovich can be a good Coleman replacement on that line. It's a combination I've wanted to try for a while now.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

At this point it's clear Subban can at best tread water, and maybe crank a slap shot or two that can catch a goalie off guard. Coaching staff has seemingly realized it and that blog post didn't add much. If he's truly "below replacement" then he can be replaced with Vatanen and move down the lineup, and if not, then what's replacement mean?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Subban still sucks but he hasn't been as aggressively awful since he got paired with Murray and his ice time has gone down.

His first 8 games of the season he was averaging 24:20 per game with 41.7% OZ starts. In the last six he's been averaging 19:59 with 51.3% OZ starts. He has four points in those six most recent games.

They've stopped using him as a top pairing guy and have played him in a role he's much more suited for. They should still expose him for Seattle

 

[TrufleShufle]

At this point it's clear Subban can at best tread water, and maybe crank a slap shot or two that can catch a goalie off guard. Coaching staff has seemingly realized it and that blog post didn't add much. If he's truly "below replacement" then he can be replaced with Vatanen and move down the lineup, and if not, then what's replacement mean?

 

[Triumph]

Murray has been atrocious since he has been back and that is dragging Subban down - he might be below replacement-level but Murray is not helping.

 

[Hisch13r]

I actually have hopes Sharangovich can be a good Coleman replacement on that line. It's a combination I've wanted to try for a while now.

Stylistically I agree. I just don't think Sharangovich is all that good. It's worth a try though. Wood is another who is worth a try there

 

[StevenToddIves]

He really isn't that bad - and I definitely do not like protecting the guy. It's just more stats fodder that misses the mark.

Murray struggled the last two games and help expose Subban.

He's terrible, and I would love for Seattle to claim him - but he's eaten pretty big minutes pretty effectively in better than half of our games so far.

I feel Murray played really well early, but his play has tailed off of late. He's still a huge upgrade over Mueller or Butcher, however. I don't see what the beef with Subban is -- I think he's played well all year.

People can pick apart the Devils all they want, but the fact is the Devils are playing about art expectation right now. I'd say the Devils have 2 huge problems right now. Of course, the penalty kill has been absolutely abominable. But more importantly, the Devils have been unable to generate consistent offense from any line except whatever line Jack Hughes is on.

Last game, the Devils took Johnsson off the Hughes LW in the third period -- and thank the stars, after Johnsson's three-turnover second period. Johnsson has more giveaways than shots this year and the Devils are a stronger team with Bratt on that left wing alongside Hughes and Palmieri.

But then why to build around Hischier? Nico has understandably not shaken the rust off after a long layoff. But I'd be willing to bet he hits his stride soon. How about a second line of Nico between Zacha and Gusev? I think you could hide Gusev's lack of defense and speed alongside two fast, good defensive players and Gusev proved last year he can certainly generate some offense with regular minutes.

 

[Camille the Eel]

I think our club needs an effective “second gear.” A race horse can’t run a mile and a half at full speed and a hockey team can’t play 60 minutes of nothing but frantic up tempo. You need to find “rest steps” during a game and we’ve yet to see what that style can be for us. We blew our energy in the first period against Buffalo and didn’t score. Ironically we can be better sometimes playing rope a dope early and then putting the foot to the gas selectively later. We need to learn to pace ourselves better and use the up tempo bursts more selectively. It also relates to line usage and style of play. A heavy forecheck and physicality also change the flow of the game.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They haven't really settled on any firm line combos in the entire top 9. At some point they should settle on combos they feel work.

I think its also evident that we need another scoring wing down the road. Whether it's a sniper or a garbage man is up for debate, but we have a lot of pretty passes and not enough guys who will bury said passes.

Something to look into during the offseason and might be for the best so we don't have to rush Holtz. He might benefit from one more normal year overseas before coming over for good

 

[Emperoreddy]

I think our club needs an effective “second gear.” A race horse can’t run a mile and a half at full speed and a hockey team can’t play 60 minutes of nothing but frantic up tempo. You need to find “rest steps” during a game and we’ve yet to see what that style can be for us. We blew our energy in the first period against Buffalo and didn’t score. Ironically we can be better sometimes playing rope a dope early and then putting the foot to the gas selectively later. We need to learn to pace ourselves better and use the up tempo bursts more selectively. It also relates to line usage and style of play. A heavy forecheck and physicality also change the flow of the game.

That's something they learn with experience. It's a bunch of kids who know only one gear.

As they get more time under their belt they should learn how to better channel their energy.

 

[Blackjack]

They haven't really settled on any firm line combos in the entire top 9. At some point they should settle on combos they feel work.

I think its also evident that we need another scoring wing down the road. Whether it's a sniper or a garbage man is up for debate, but we have a lot of pretty passes and not enough guys who will bury said passes.

Something to look into during the offseason and might be for the best so we don't have to rush Holtz. He might benefit from one more normal year overseas before coming over for good

I could be wrong but I don't remember a lot of high danger scoring chances in front of Ullmark. I continue to believe that the issue with this team is playmaking, not finishing. Jack doesn't seem to have any issue racking up assists.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I could be wrong but I don't remember a lot of high danger scoring chances in front of Ullmark. I continue to believe that the issue with this team is playmaking, not finishing. Jack doesn't seem to have any issue racking up assists.

That's a positioning issue. He isn't screened enough, but that hasn't really been a major issue for the bulk of the season.

 

[Triumph]

I feel Murray played really well early, but his play has tailed off of late. He's still a huge upgrade over Mueller or Butcher, however. I don't see what the beef with Subban is -- I think he's played well all year.

People can pick apart the Devils all they want, but the fact is the Devils are playing about art expectation right now. I'd say the Devils have 2 huge problems right now. Of course, the penalty kill has been absolutely abominable. But more importantly, the Devils have been unable to generate consistent offense from any line except whatever line Jack Hughes is on.

Last game, the Devils took Johnsson off the Hughes LW in the third period -- and thank the stars, after Johnsson's three-turnover second period. Johnsson has more giveaways than shots this year and the Devils are a stronger team with Bratt on that left wing alongside Hughes and Palmieri.

But then why to build around Hischier? Nico has understandably not shaken the rust off after a long layoff. But I'd be willing to bet he hits his stride soon. How about a second line of Nico between Zacha and Gusev? I think you could hide Gusev's lack of defense and speed alongside two fast, good defensive players and Gusev proved last year he can certainly generate some offense with regular minutes.

Keep Johnsson with Hughes - they've been incredibly effective together. The Devils get 60% of the shots when they are together. Whether it's Bratt or Palmieri that ends up as the third guy on that line, it doesn't much matter to me, but the idea that one period of 'giveaways', whatever that means, should have the Devils breaking up one of their best twosomes doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Zacha-Hischier-Bratt should be fine once these guys hit their stride. It might take a while for Nico, though.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I feel Murray played really well early, but his play has tailed off of late. He's still a huge upgrade over Mueller or Butcher, however. I don't see what the beef with Subban is -- I think he's played well all year.

People can pick apart the Devils all they want, but the fact is the Devils are playing about art expectation right now. I'd say the Devils have 2 huge problems right now. Of course, the penalty kill has been absolutely abominable. But more importantly, the Devils have been unable to generate consistent offense from any line except whatever line Jack Hughes is on.

Last game, the Devils took Johnsson off the Hughes LW in the third period -- and thank the stars, after Johnsson's three-turnover second period. Johnsson has more giveaways than shots this year and the Devils are a stronger team with Bratt on that left wing alongside Hughes and Palmieri.

But then why to build around Hischier? Nico has understandably not shaken the rust off after a long layoff. But I'd be willing to bet he hits his stride soon. How about a second line of Nico between Zacha and Gusev? I think you could hide Gusev's lack of defense and speed alongside two fast, good defensive players and Gusev proved last year he can certainly generate some offense with regular minutes.

I agree with you here - Lines are going to be up and down, and certainly the re-introduction of the vets and the rust they are carrying has staunched our momentum.

I think Bratt and Hughes belong together, and Palms on that line helps as well.

Johnsson is so tough to figure out - because he seems to spend large parts of games turning the puck over, and then ends up in the right place at the right time and puts the puck in the net when he gets a chance. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons he got dealt.

I hope some of the energy guys like Sharangovich, Merkeley, Boqvist and Maltsev can draw back in, because it seems like we're just getting a little too fancy with our game.

 

[Hisch13r]

I agree with you here - Lines are going to be up and down, and certainly the re-introduction of the vets and the rust they are carrying has staunched our momentum.

I think Bratt and Hughes belong together, and Palms on that line helps as well.

Johnsson is so tough to figure out - because he seems to spend large parts of games turning the puck over, and then ends up in the right place at the right time and puts the puck in the net when he gets a chance. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons he got dealt.

I hope some of the energy guys like Sharangovich, Merkeley, Boqvist and Maltsev can draw back in, because it seems like we're just getting a little too fancy with our game.

Giveaway/Takeaway stats are faulty but Johnsson is 3rd best among forwards in giveaways/60. Only behind Zajac and Bastian. The idea that he's giving the puck away left and right is completely laughable. Johnsson wasn't traded because of giveaways lol. He was moved because of Toronto's cap situation.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Keep Johnsson with Hughes - they've been incredibly effective together. The Devils get 60% of the shots when they are together. Whether it's Bratt or Palmieri that ends up as the third guy on that line, it doesn't much matter to me, but the idea that one period of 'giveaways', whatever that means, should have the Devils breaking up one of their best twosomes doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

Zacha-Hischier-Bratt should be fine once these guys hit their stride. It might take a while for Nico, though.

Johnsson has more giveaways than shots this season, and he's fooled by as many Hughes passes as he has collected. I think it's a stretch to call him a top 6 winger. I'd like to see him on the 3rd line, where his primarily north/south game would work alongside Zajac. Hughes to me was just as good with Sharangovich as Johnsson. Last game, Hughes was far more dangerous in the third period alongside Bratt than in the first two alongside Johnson, who made a nice play early in the first for a high-danger shot off the right wing, but then was essentially a turnover machine the rest of the way.

 

[StevenToddIves]

I agree with you here - Lines are going to be up and down, and certainly the re-introduction of the vets and the rust they are carrying has staunched our momentum.

I think Bratt and Hughes belong together, and Palms on that line helps as well.

Johnsson is so tough to figure out - because he seems to spend large parts of games turning the puck over, and then ends up in the right place at the right time and puts the puck in the net when he gets a chance. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons he got dealt.

I hope some of the energy guys like Sharangovich, Merkeley, Boqvist and Maltsev can draw back in, because it seems like we're just getting a little too fancy with our game.

I agree, Johnsson is enigmatic. Last year with Toronto, he was consistently awful. The year before with Toronto, he was consistently good. But I'd rather see a player with more offensive upside on Hughes wing, like Bratt or Sharangovich -- or even Zacha, who has similar offensive ability to Johnsson but a more complete game and less of a penchant for head-scratching giveaways.

 

[StevenToddIves]

Giveaway/Takeaway stats are faulty but Johnsson is 3rd best among forwards in giveaways/60. Only behind Zajac and Bastian. The idea that he's giving the puck away left and right is completely laughable. Johnsson wasn't traded because of giveaways lol. He was moved because of Toronto's cap situation.

I'm not sure how this giveaway stat is factored, but to me it's when the next player to touch the puck after you is the opposition, except in the case of a dump-in or shot attempt. If you watch Johnsson last night, there was one instance of this in the first, three in the second and one in the third. I feel this was why Ruff dropped Johnsson from the Hughes line -- he kept sinking the momentum of the line with loss of possession.

The reason Johnson was traded, and this cannot be stated enough, is because he was completely ineffective in 20219-20. 7 goals in 43 games for a player whose best attribute is scoring is not okay. We need to stop discussing him as a first-line winger, because he's not. Palmieri is a first/second line tweener at best, and he's entire worlds and universes better than Johnsson in every single aspect of the game. I feel Hughes has been terrific all year no matter who has been on his wing, but I felt he was a bit more dynamic alongside Sharangovich, who offered more speed and compete level than Johnsson.

 

[Triumph]

Johnsson has more giveaways than shots this season, and he's fooled by as many Hughes passes as he has collected. I think it's a stretch to call him a top 6 winger. I'd like to see him on the 3rd line, where his primarily north/south game would work alongside Zajac. Hughes to me was just as good with Sharangovich as Johnsson. Last game, Hughes was far more dangerous in the third period alongside Bratt than in the first two alongside Johnson, who made a nice play early in the first for a high-danger shot off the right wing, but then was essentially a turnover machine the rest of the way.

There are no numbers at all that support this. Sharangovich with Hughes was even in shots and appeared to struggle playing with Hughes - he recognized implicitly that when you play with someone this good, you constantly try to find him with passes, but he took this to an extreme.

I don't care what you call Johnsson, whether you call him a top 6 winger or not, the guy has looked excellent with Hughes and should stay there. If in a few games it's not working, fine, but to me it's working, and while Ruff is messing around with the lines, it's often because other lines are not working, not that this one wasn't.

 

[Hisch13r]

Sharangovich-Hughes- 53.25% CF, 49.63% xGF, 52.5% SCF, 40% HDCF. Relative #s- 1.11% CF, -1.79% xGF, 1.99% SCF, -5.88% HDCF

Johnsson-Hughes- 57.54% CF, 58.88% xGF, 60% SCF, 58.06% HDCF. Relative #s- 7.3% CF, 10.85% xGF, 11.98% SCF, 13.77% HDCF

aS gOoD wItH sHaRaNgOvIcH

 

[billingtons ghost]

Giveaway/Takeaway stats are faulty but Johnsson is 3rd best among forwards in giveaways/60. Only behind Zajac and Bastian. The idea that he's giving the puck away left and right is completely laughable. Johnsson wasn't traded because of giveaways lol. He was moved because of Toronto's cap situation.

You do watch the games, right?

My point was that his inconsistancy made him expendable. Certainly cap space was the main concern, but when you stick out like a sore thumb with being great one game and certifiably terrible the next, it makes it alot easier to ship you off for futures.