Devils 2019-20 team discussion (news and notes) - part V

[tailfins]

It seems like Shero is really the problem here. He seems competent. His moves make sense on paper. But, to have this kind of record, these types of performances, 5 years into his reign? It’s not acceptable.

The worst part is that no one seems to know what the problem is. People talk about needing better D and better goaltending. Sure better players will (obviously) help. But, it’s not as if the Devils are icing echl players. Is this poor roster construction? Lack of leadership? Poor “culture”? Poor system?

In the end, the real question is whether Shero is the right guy to manage the trade deadline. He’s brought the team to this (very low) point. Can he be trusted to make things better? Or is he just going to bring back another set of misfit toys?

Or maybe a better question is: does Shero have anyone he can turn to for help?

Is there someone like Lemaire who could come in and be a special advisor?

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

It seems like Shero is really the problem here. He seems competent. His moves make sense on paper. But, to have this kind of record, these types of performances, 5 years into his reign? It’s not acceptable.

The worst part is that no one seems to know what the problem is. People talk about needing better D and better goaltending. Sure better players will (obviously) help. But, it’s not as if the Devils are icing echl players. Is this poor roster construction? Lack of leadership? Poor “culture”? Poor system?

In the end, the real question is whether Shero is the right guy to manage the trade deadline. He’s brought the team to this (very low) point. Can he be trusted to make things better? Or is he just going to bring back another set of misfit toys?

Right now the big problem to me is coaching. Just watching the Devils they seem to make plays that arent smart in dangerous positions constantly, which is fine maybe if youre the lightning, but the talent needs a major spike to play within this current system (that wont change until a new coach comes in net season). They need a coach who can teach the players structure within the D zone and to pick and choose situations to make aggressive plays. Until we get a new coach I dont think you can really get rid of Shero, if he makes 2 straight bad coaching decisions and the results arent there even with more talent coming in each year, then he becomes expendable.

 

[devilsblood]

It seems like Shero is really the problem here. He seems competent. His moves make sense on paper. But, to have this kind of record, these types of performances, 5 years into his reign? It’s not acceptable.

The worst part is that no one seems to know what the problem is. People talk about needing better D and better goaltending. Sure better players will (obviously) help. But, it’s not as if the Devils are icing echl players. Is this poor roster construction? Lack of leadership? Poor “culture”? Poor system?

In the end, the real question is whether Shero is the right guy to manage the trade deadline. He’s brought the team to this (very low) point. Can he be trusted to make things better? Or is he just going to bring back another set of misfit toys?

I think Shero, as well as a lot of the media, and 99% of this board, fell into the trap of seeing talent, and thinking that makes a good hockey team.

Now I think part of the problem is our talent is still very young, but there is more to it then that.

And I'm not quite sure what the issue is, like why does our talent look so disjointed, it would be one thing if we were high flying but couldn't play defense, but we look terrible on offense, as well as on defense.

We can talk systems, and that certainly is at play to some extent, but that doesn't explain why we flub the puck so often.

 

[devilsblood]

Right now the big problem to me is coaching. Just watching the Devils they seem to make plays that arent smart in dangerous positions constantly, which is fine maybe if youre the lightning, but the talent needs a major spike to play within this current system (that wont change until a new coach comes in net season). They need a coach who can teach the players structure within the D zone and to pick and choose situations to make aggressive plays. Until we get a new coach I dont think you can really get rid of Shero, if he makes 2 straight bad coaching decisions and the results arent there even with more talent coming in each year, then he becomes expendable.

Ya, Shero should get a 2nd coaching regime.

But it's a tricky call imo. I hate picking from the coaching carousel, yet I'm very wary of going unproven new age guy, which is what Hynes was.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Ya, Shero should get a 2nd coaching regime.

But it's a tricky call imo. I hate picking from the coaching carousel, yet I'm very wary of going unproven new age guy, which is what Hynes was.

Yeah Hynes has burned me, I think we need a coach who can implement a good system. That doesn't mean that coach cant be an AHL or College coach, but anyone unproven will scare me a bit. But also think of some of the other coaches who have succeeded in a similar way, specifically Montgomery before he was fired, that Dallas team plays such a tight suffocating system. So an unproven guy doesn't necessarily mean they cant provide what we need, but I'm nervous about the next hire.

 

[Devils731]

We can talk systems, and that certainly is at play to some extent, but that doesn't explain why we flub the puck so often.

I think systems does help explain the flubs a bit.

Defensively and breaking out, the Devils system features a lot of choices to make which means players need to look around, decide, and then execute. With so many variable that go into their decisions, the players take awhile to make their decision and now the opponent is harassing them. Additionally, the system often expects a difficult play to be executed.

So players now know they need to rush their decision making and then execute flawlessly in return for little benefit but failure is a large penalty. This leads to players trying to look around and decide before they get the puck or finish winning their battle, which leads to them flubbing the play. Alternatively, if they don’t start looking around before they get the puck they’ll take so long reading the play that they’ll be under harassment from the opponent, also leading to flubbing what looks like a simple play.

Other teams know what to do and what to expect from their teammates. The Devils know there are a bunch of options to choose from, take too long to make a read, and/or decide differently from their linemates which causes a team screwup.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah Hynes has burned me, I think we need a coach who can implement a good system. That doesn't mean that coach cant be an AHL or College coach, but anyone unproven will scare me a bit. But also think of some of the other coaches who have succeeded in a similar way, specifically Montgomery before he was fired, that Dallas team plays such a tight suffocating system. So an unproven guy doesn't necessarily mean they cant provide what we need, but I'm nervous about the next hire.

Watching our young players struggle offensively this year, and knowing how those struggles effect confidence I wonder if it is not better to take the route the Rag's are going and just go high flying, and then learn to clamp it down as those players mature.

Not sure I want to go that way, but I'm a little wary of the next guy coming in, going the clamp down route, and further hampering the offensive creativity of players like Bratt and Nico and Hughes.

 

[devilsblood]

I think systems does help explain the flubs a bit.

Defensively and breaking out, the Devils system features a lot of choices to make which means players need to look around, decide, and then execute. With so many variable that go into their decisions, the players take awhile to make their decision and now the opponent is harassing them. Additionally, the system often expects a difficult play to be executed.

So players now know they need to rush their decision making and then execute flawlessly in return for little benefit but failure is a large penalty. This leads to players trying to look around and decide before they get the puck or finish winning their battle, which leads to them flubbing the play. Alternatively, if they don’t start looking around before they get the puck they’ll take so long reading the play that they’ll be under harassment from the opponent, also leading to flubbing what looks like a simple play.

Other teams know what to do and what to expect from their teammates. The Devils know there are a bunch of options to choose from, take too long to make a read, and/or decide differently from their linemates which causes a team screwup.

I'm seeing them flub passes which are obvious. I'm also seeing them just lose the puck while skating.

Now are they so off kilter because the system has them thinking so much that they are now f***ing up the obvious plays? Yeah I could buy that.

 

[devilsblood]

Check out this ugliness regarding Zacha.

Amongst fwds with at least 200 mins played, there are only 3 guys in the league who are above 5 goals against per 60.

Only 12 guys who are above 4.

Zacha is at 5.9.

 

[Scooooooooooooot]

Watching our young players struggle offensively this year, and knowing how those struggles effect confidence I wonder if it is not better to take the route the Rag's are going and just go high flying, and then learn to clamp it down as those players mature.

Not sure I want to go that way, but I'm a little wary of the next guy coming in, going the clamp down route, and further hampering the offensive creativity of players like Bratt and Nico and Hughes.

Yeah I was hoping Nas would get them to do that more, until this past game they seemed to be doing a bit better creating chances. I'm really hoping Nico comes back, then they just try to get the top players some confidence and have them play pretty free, and the next coach can come in and implement a system that benefits the strengths of this team.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I think the issue with Shero is that he's *too* opportunistic. It's great to take advantage of other teams and get value, but that alone doesn't build a team. If all you're doing is sitting around waiting to rip the other guy off, then you don't actually have a strategy.

Like, he didn't target Marcus Johansson because he thought Marcus Johansson would be a core player for this team. He was looking for "skilled top-6 forward I can get without giving up a roster player or prospect" and Johansson just happened to be the guy that was available.

So it seems like he's not thinking in terms of actual team building, it's just a matter of 'I have this hole on my roster, start shoving players in there over and over until eventually I find someone that fits.' His vision for the team is too abstract. Speed is great but by itself it is not an identity.

It seems like is actual strategy was i.) draft a bunch of guys, ii.) wait 5 years and see if they turn into anything, and iii.) in the meantime try to score underrated roster players off the clearance rack and see if they can keep us relevant.

 

[Davegarri]

Check out this ugliness regarding Zacha.

Amongst fwds with at least 200 mins played, there are only 3 guys in the league who are above 5 goals against per 60.

Only 12 guys who are above 4.

Zacha is at 5.9.

Didnt you know, Zacha is elite defensively?

He's a f***ing bust is what he is

 

[NjDevs4994]

Didnt you know, Zacha is elite defensively?

He's a ****ing bust is what he is

He just needs to play on a better line.

 

[devilsblood]

Yeah I was hoping Nas would get them to do that more, until this past game they seemed to be doing a bit better creating chances. I'm really hoping Nico comes back, then they just try to get the top players some confidence and have them play pretty free, and the next coach can come in and implement a system that benefits the strengths of this team.

Ya and right now we are doing those things a bad team does. We don't win games in which we play pretty well, whether that be because of goal tending, or a couple break downs, or not finishing chances, and then we follow that up with a terrible effort like last night.

String a bunch of those together and I don't think these guys know which way is up.

 

[devilsblood]

Didnt you know, Zacha is elite defensively?

He's a ****ing bust is what he is

I'm not going there, but he is a very frustrating player because he has talent.
Maybe the epitome of our struggles as imo he has always been a guy who struggles with confidence.

 

[Billdo]

You guys didn't really think a coaching change would right the ship in two weeks, did you? This team is flawed. It's flawed in such a way that a coaching change alone isn't going to fix it. We have the worst defense group in the NHL outside of Detroit probably. Subban looks every bit of cooked. Greene is a fractured shell of himself. Severson looks incredible and then absolutely awful in the same game. Butcher isn't anything more than a bottom pairing offensive defenseman. Vatanen has been far and away our best defenseman. I'm not even going to mention Tennyson, Mueller, and Carrick. When this is the defense and the general lack of any semblance of an actual system that maximizes the players abilities, pucks will be going into our net way more than the opponents. I've been screaming for two years now that this teams most glaring need is a bonafide LD1. If we had a capable defense this wouldn't be so bad but it's a joke. It messes everything up from goaltending to forwards having to do too much that they're either incapable of or gassing themselves because of the defensive deficiencies.

 

[Call Me Al]

even lemaire took a few games to learn the new system. unfortunately nas is no lemaire and i’m not sure he has the answers for this team anyway. they could very well be worse than before for the rest of the season especially when hall leaves

 

[My3Sons]

Shero had a buffer from the blame with Hynes as coach, but now that is gone and it is all on him.

He has to hit on these 3 tasks coming up:

1.) Get assets on pending UFA and underperforming players.

2.) Hire a GOOD coach.

3.) Trade and spend cash to get talent in during the offseason.


If he fails at this then ownership will have to purge him out. If I were Shero I would just promote Fitz to GM and take on some sort of President role. That’d be a good decision for everyone, especially since Fitz is highly regarded.

If Fitz takes his marching orders from Shero he will likely do whatever it is Shero would have done. If you are unhappy with Shero I’m not sure that promoting him and putting his assistant in charge changes much - like Hynes and Nas.

 

[devilsblood]

I think the issue with Shero is that he's *too* opportunistic. It's great to take advantage of other teams and get value, but that alone doesn't build a team. If all you're doing is sitting around waiting to rip the other guy off, then you don't actually have a strategy.

Like, he didn't target Marcus Johansson because he thought Marcus Johansson would be a core player for this team. He was looking for "skilled top-6 forward I can get without giving up a roster player or prospect" and Johansson just happened to be the guy that was available.

So it seems like he's not thinking in terms of actual team building, it's just a matter of 'I have this hole on my roster, start shoving players in there over and over until eventually I find someone that fits.' His vision for the team is too abstract. Speed is great but by itself it is not an identity.

It seems like is actual strategy was i.) draft a bunch of guys, ii.) wait 5 years and see if they turn into anything, and iii.) in the meantime try to score underrated roster players off the clearance rack and see if they can keep us relevant.

Gusev fits that bill too.

Amongst the teams most glaring needs was a talented but soft winger one of them?

Not to mention we didn't know how he would acclimate to the NHL game, and he has certainly had struggles in that dept.

Then there is Subban. And yes we needed D, but not a righty, and not a risk taking puck mover. And sure we got him for cheap, but as it turns out there was a reason for that.

 

[MichaelJ]

Gusev fits that bill too.

Amongst the teams most glaring needs was a talented but soft winger one of them?

Not to mention we didn't know how he would acclimate to the NHL game, and he has certainly had struggles in that dept.

Then there is Subban. And yes we needed D, but not a righty, and not a risk taking puck mover. And sure we got him for cheap, but as it turns out there was a reason for that.

Im beginning to think Shero doesn’t know how to do anything besides find value in trades. It’s obviously important but more is needed in actual team building.

 

[Azathoth]

I think the issue with Shero is that he's *too* opportunistic. It's great to take advantage of other teams and get value, but that alone doesn't build a team. If all you're doing is sitting around waiting to rip the other guy off, then you don't actually have a strategy.

Like, he didn't target Marcus Johansson because he thought Marcus Johansson would be a core player for this team. He was looking for "skilled top-6 forward I can get without giving up a roster player or prospect" and Johansson just happened to be the guy that was available.

So it seems like he's not thinking in terms of actual team building, it's just a matter of 'I have this hole on my roster, start shoving players in there over and over until eventually I find someone that fits.' His vision for the team is too abstract. Speed is great but by itself it is not an identity.

It seems like is actual strategy was i.) draft a bunch of guys, ii.) wait 5 years and see if they turn into anything, and iii.) in the meantime try to score underrated roster players off the clearance rack and see if they can keep us relevant.

I certainly don't disagree with this take at all, but I think the context for this strategy was Shero realized that the team was so bereft of skill/talent with nothing of note in the pipeline that I think his thought process was to just acquire what talent he could and sort everything out later.