Devils 2017-18 team discussion (player news and notes) VII - Playoff push; read warning in OP first

[BahlDeep]

Come on...Moore has played with lots of differet partners and the player who plays with him has always gotten worse. He has been the worst CF% Dman on the team his entire time here.

You can blame Severson for whatever you'd like, but there is no question that Moore doesn't help. And really having the two together is a bigger problem.

But really there is no other choice. Our pieces don't really fit well.
Shero has done a very poor job addressing the Defense. It is jerryrigged. An odd collection of players that at best don't really fit and at worst are a distaster. You can't even break up Moore and Severson because there is really no alternative.

That's the problem, only argument is the CF%. I agree they aren't suited to play together, but there's no way in hell that you can convince me this year that Moore has been dragging down Severson. I feel like everyone having that narrative just does not simply want to admit it; Severson is simply not what we expected him to be. And I'm sure you are probably aware of that and you are most probably disappointed from what Severson has shown so far this year.

How would you rate Severson season this year? Our offense is better, and Severson hasn't been better this year.

 

[BahlDeep]

Top pair is two guys 5'10 and under 190

Second pair is two guys who are best suited for offense

Third pair is small rookie that isn't the fleetest of foot and old stay at home guy that simply can't skate

At this point that is really is the best combo'sthat can be put together.

I think if we had
Vatanen - Santini
Greene - Severson
Mueller - Butcher

It would be better.

 

[devilsblood]

Come on...Moore has played with lots of differet partners and the player who plays with him has always gotten worse. He has been the worst CF% Dman on the team his entire time here.

You can blame Severson for whatever you'd like, but there is no question that Moore doesn't help. And really having the two together is a bigger problem.

But really there is no other choice. Our pieces don't really fit well.
Shero has done a very poor job addressing the Defense. It is jerryrigged. An odd collection of players that at best don't really fit and at worst are a distaster. You can't even break up Moore and Severson because there is really no alternative.

Actually last year Moore and Sev's had their best corsi #'s together.

 

[BahlDeep]

Actually last year Moore and Sev's had their best corsi #'s together.

That's why Corsi is a poor stat. You can argue that they are our worst pairing. Not all shots are equal.

 

[Zippy316]

I think if we had
Vatanen - Santini
Greene - Severson
Mueller - Butcher

It would be better.

So the guy that got pushed out of the line-up for Lovejoy would be a better option on the first pairing. Not only that, but we're pushing Vatanen to his offside.

The pairings we have right now are the best options. Not ideal, but they all compliment each other well.

 

[BahlDeep]

So the guy that got pushed out of the line-up for Lovejoy would be a better option on the first pairing. Not only that, but we're pushing Vatanen to his offside.

The pairings we have right now are the best options. Not ideal, but they all compliment each other well.

Put Santini on his off-side than. Santini defended well, his trouble was more about getting the puck out of the zone, and Greene certainly did not help him in that regard.

Greene can't handle top minutes anymore, and him playing vs lesser competition will do him wonder. It will also let Severson have a reliable defenseman who can cover him up.

 

[Zippy316]

Put Santini on his off-side than. Santini defended well, his trouble was more about getting the puck out of the zone, and Greene certainly did not help him in that regard.

Greene can't handle top minutes anymore, and him playing vs lesser competition will do him wonder. It will also let Severson have a reliable defenseman who can cover him up.

Nobody on this team can handle top minutes. Vatanen is the only one that can at least hold his own there.

Greene is playing top minutes because he is the best of our options. Devils tried out Santini early on and he just spent the entire game in the D zone. Devils gave Moore a shot mid-season with Vatanen and it didn't work out. Devils tried Severson with Greene and that backfired as well. Thankfully, they haven't attempted Greene - Lovejoy again, but it looks like they learned from last year.

The defense needs improvement, but there's nothing we can do about that now.

 

[BahlDeep]

Nobody on this team can handle top minutes. Vatanen is the only one that can at least hold his own there.

Greene is playing top minutes because he is the best of our options. Devils tried out Santini early on and he just spent the entire game in the D zone. Devils gave Moore a shot mid-season and it didn't work out. Devils tried Severson with Greene and that backfired as well. Thankfully, they haven't attempted Greene - Lovejoy again, but it looks that they learned from last year.

The defense needs improvement, but there's nothing we can do about that now.

Greene has improved because of Vatanen. Santini was playing with Greene. Santini and Vatanen would be a better pairing than Vatanen and Greene. Greene is a black hole in the offensive zone. Santini has better offensive flair than Greene. Let's be honest, Santini is stuck in the minors because of the contracts our defensemen have (Greene and Lovejoy)

Reason why Severson and Greene didn't work is because they we're going against top competition, and both can't handle it at this point in their career.

 

[Csonked Out]

Let me stress how important it is to work Mueller or Santini back into the lineup down this vital stretch.

LJ will cost us points if he continues to play every game.

I am wondering if at some point we don't rotate Butcher back to the right side to get Mueller in.

Greene Vats
Mueller Sevs
Moore Butcher

Butcher can play both sides and the pairings look more balanced to me.

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

Nico Hischier is currently the 25th best season (for points) by an 18-year old in NHL history.

If he cracks 50 he will enter near the top 20 all-time.

And that doesnt include his two way play.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Rewatching the game, Zacha and Maroon really did some good work together. Maroon’s bruising style fits really well next to Pavel. If you put Noesen on that line they could cycle you to death, or put Wood next to them to rekindle the chemistry he had with Zacha.

 

[Zippy316]

Rewatching the game, Zacha and Maroon really did some good work together. Maroon’s bruising style fits really well next to Pavel. If you put Noesen on that line they could cycle you to death, or put Wood next to them to rekindle the chemistry he had with Zacha.

Maroon - Zacha - Johansson could be interesting when MarJo is healthy.

 

[Cheddabombs]

I miss MoJo

Hope we get an update in Hynes' pre-game presser now that they're back home

 

[JimEIV]

Actually last year Moore and Sev's had their best corsi #'s together.

Maybe in a short segment? Maybe Severson brought Moore's numbers up last year...but no way Severson got better playing with Moore. He's an anchor.


Severson by year
2015 50.7
2016 48.4
2017 50.0
2018 49.5

Moore
2016 44.1
2017 45.5
2018 48.1


Just to add to the conversation
Merrill
2014 53.0
2015 45.4
2016 46.4
2017 48.0

 

[JimEIV]

So the guy that got pushed out of the line-up for Lovejoy would be a better option on the first pairing. Not only that, but we're pushing Vatanen to his offside.

The pairings we have right now are the best options. Not ideal, but they all compliment each other well.

I do agree the pairs we have now are the best option....but they far from complimentary to each other.

Two smurfs on the top pair don't compliment each other

Dumb and dumber on the 2nd pairing don't compliment each other.

On balance the 3rd pairing is probably the best....But even there, it's really a lead foot and cement shoes pairing.

 

[Triumph]

That's odd.

Most teams only carry three goalies in the AHL/ECHL. Right now, the Devils have Blackwood signed through next year, Appleby is an RFA, and Cormier is finishing his last year.

So it looks like they're either not keeping Appleby or not signing Cormier then.

Or, most likely, Blackwood will start out the season in the ECHL. He has been a disaster this season. Johnson/Appelby in Binghamton and Blackwood in the ECHL seems like a decent solution in the minors, at least.

 

[JimEIV]

That's the problem, only argument is the CF%. I agree they aren't suited to play together, but there's no way in hell that you can convince me this year that Moore has been dragging down Severson. I feel like everyone having that narrative just does not simply want to admit it; Severson is simply not what we expected him to be. And I'm sure you are probably aware of that and you are most probably disappointed from what Severson has shown so far this year.

How would you rate Severson season this year? Our offense is better, and Severson hasn't been better this year.

Sorry I missed the question...

Severson has been much better than you suggest.

He has 23 points on the season with very little PP time. Last season he had 13 PP points this season only 4.

Last season he had 18 ES points this season 19 with 8 games to go. Are we making believe that he didn't equal his entire career goal total this season? And all 9 were at even strength also.

So production-wise he is probably actually doing better this season than last.

I think the Severson mistakes are really overblown. I also think the aggressive pinching that you see comes directly from the coaching staff, I think a lot of the miscommunication you see in his own zone is directly related to his partner...that's not to say Severson doesn't make his fair of mistakes...he does, but I would say so does every defenseman who handles the puck a lot.

I think you prematurely dismiss the CF numbers also. This is simple stuff...more good stuff usually happens for the Devils than against the Devils when he is on the ice. That is significant. I think Severson has had a very good year.

 

[BahlDeep]

Sorry I missed the question...

Severson has been much better than you suggest.

He has 23 points on the season with very little PP time. Last season he had 13 PP points this season only 4.

Last season he had 18 ES points this season 19 with 8 games to go. Are we making believe that he didn't equal his entire career goal total this season? And all 9 were at even strength also.

So production-wise he is probably actually doing better this season than last.

I think the Severson mistakes are really overblown. I also think the aggressive pinching that you see comes directly from the coaching staff, I think a lot of the miscommunication you see in his own zone is directly related to his partner...that's not to say Severson doesn't make his fair of mistakes...he does, but I would say so does every defenseman who handles the puck a lot.

I think you prematurely dismiss the CF numbers also. This is simple stuff...more good stuff usually happens for the Devils than against the Devils when he is on the ice. That is significant. I think Severson has had a very good year.

Yea, no, he's under 50% in CF, so that's false. He's a defensive liability, you can't blame that on the coaching staff, because he's the only one that do those stupid pinches constantly that puts the team in a tough position and you certainly can't blame that on his partner, who's usually back there trying to correct his partner boneheaded play. I can't actually believe you think he's defensive lapses are being overblown. He has terrible defensive fundamentals and lacks general awareness on both ends of the ice.

And to add to that, you are completely being dishonest his 5 on 5 production considering the team is scoring 0.7 more GPG this year, yet his production is actually down this year.

 

[NJDevs26]

Translation I guess is that he hasn't been cleared for contact yet

 

[JimEIV]

Yea, no, he's under 50% in CF, so that's false. He's a defensive liability, you can't blame that on the coaching staff, because he's the only one that do those stupid pinches constantly that puts the team in a tough position and you certainly can't blame that on his partner, who's usually back there trying to correct his partner boneheaded play. I can't actually believe you think he's defensive lapses are being overblown. He has terrible defensive fundamentals and lacks general awareness on both ends of the ice.

49.5% ok. I don't profess to know what Hynes does, but coaching of the past dictated the level of acceptable chance taking from the point. For instances under Lemaire it was largely a no-no...as soon as DeBoer came in, it was an obvious important aspect if his scheme and our defense regularly went deep to the hash marks...when DeBoer was fired Stevens shutdown all the pinches and brought them back slowly. The player aren't completely making those decisions. And you know that is case by the winger coming over to cover is by design...

Which is another thing.... some of what looks as a bad pinch is winger not covering and the opposite side Dman not pulling out of the zone quick enough....but the structure is the coaches, players aren't doing that stuff on their own.

 

[Tretyak 20]

lol pretty much. whenever the Devils sign someone alarm bells go off in their heads

literally every time we sign some nobody AHL player or a mediocre level college prospect they pencil him in the first line lool

Ironically, basically the only time this wasn't true was Gibbons, who has spent zero time in Bingo.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Or, most likely, Blackwood will start out the season in the ECHL. He has been a disaster this season. Johnson/Appelby in Binghamton and Blackwood in the ECHL seems like a decent solution in the minors, at least.

I thought Blackwood had turned his disaster around?

 

[Triumph]

I thought Blackwood had turned his disaster around?

He has a .902 SV% in 2018, but that's replacement-level and the first half is unspeakably bad.

 

[devilsblood]

That's why Corsi is a poor stat. You can argue that they are our worst pairing. Not all shots are equal.

Nope. Their GF% was 61% together. Sev's without Moore was 30%. Moore without Sev's was 38%.

Maybe in a short segment? Maybe Severson brought Moore's numbers up last year...but no way Severson got better playing with Moore. He's an anchor.


Severson by year
2015 50.7
2016 48.4
2017 50.0
2018 49.5

Moore
2016 44.1
2017 45.5
2018 48.1


Just to add to the conversation
Merrill
2014 53.0
2015 45.4
2016 46.4
2017 48.0

See above. Sev's was much more effective with Moore then he was away from Moore.

Sev's played the most minutes with Greene 470 minutes. 2nd most with Moore, 310 minutes. Played with Merrill 117 minutes.

He had a 54% corsi with Merrill, but 0% GF. zero goals for and 6 goals against. Same with Greene, a 50% corsie, but a 32% goals for.

 

[Devils Dominion]

I thought Blackwood had turned his disaster around?

I can't confirm nor find the post but I thought someone who is from the Albany area said he was having some eye/vision issues early in the season and they it's been cleared up now.

That would explain a lot.