- May 1, 2011
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Devils 2016-17 team discussion (player news and notes) - Part X
- Thread starter Emperoreddy
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Billdo
Registered User
Yet he consistently plays and we even let a guy like Boucher (not opening that can of worms) go for nothing.
One has a track record of being a streaky, but usually still productive player. One is a kid who can't skate who has shown occasional flashes of having a good shot. Not too surprising the former gets regular minutes and the latter is on his third team this season.
SteveCangialosi123
Registered User
NJDevs26
Once upon a time...
- Mar 21, 2007
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Not to mention one's signed for the next 2.5 years on a $5 million deal with a NMC and the other is a disposable player they wrangled a two-way deal out of this offseason because his standing was already that tenuous. It's a little unrealistic to compare Camm to Boucher.
It really was like one week.
But Im not writing him off at the moment. I think he'll get hot again.
- May 1, 2011
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If anything, I'd compare Boucher to about the 6 or 7 (at least) other bum forwards we have, that we kept over him.
Not a guy like Cammalleri, as bad as he's been.
He's had the two longest goal droughts of his career this season (first one also counted the last few games he played but didn't score last season) and is going for tying that for a second time this season....
Not a guy like Cammalleri, as bad as he's been.
He's had the two longest goal droughts of his career this season (first one also counted the last few games he played but didn't score last season) and is going for tying that for a second time this season....
You mean when he was at nearly a PPG pace on a team that couldn't score? I'm sure that would have gone over splendidly. Also, he was injured half the season. Kind of hard to trade a guy who's on the IR.
- May 1, 2011
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Cammalleri wasn't worth anything last year either, don't kid yourself.
Well, we probably could have gotten a 2nd round pick, middling prospect and have to retain salary or take back another decent sized contract.
We might not be able to get any of that for him after this year, but he was never really worth trading for a 2nd round pick anyway, unless you just wanted to trade the guy just to trade him.
Well, we probably could have gotten a 2nd round pick, middling prospect and have to retain salary or take back another decent sized contract.
We might not be able to get any of that for him after this year, but he was never really worth trading for a 2nd round pick anyway, unless you just wanted to trade the guy just to trade him.
Jets012
Registered User
- Oct 19, 2015
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The whole trio of Henrique, Cam, and Palms has been a trainwreck this year. We've been complaining about the bottom 6 all year, but this top 6 shouldn't get a pass. We needed these to be the catalyst of the offense and to be quite honest, they've underachieved massively. Once again we are bottom 3 in scoring and at some point you need to look at the top forwards on the roster. Not only have Henrique/Palmieri been mediocre scoring on the 5 on 5, all three have been terrible possession wise and haven't done a good job at all. At least Cam still leads in Points/60 on the 5 on 5, Henrique and Palmieri are 6th and 7th scoring on our team. That's just not good enough. When your performing that bad defensively and in possession, you better be producing at a high level to compensate. And once again, these guys aren't.
We will not be a good team until our top 6 drastically improves. We have Hall who's a big time difference maker and someone like Zajac who is an all-around great 2nd line center. But besides that, there's just massive issues. Hopefully we have people step up, but I'm not convinced we will ever be a big time offensive team until those guys are out of the top 6. Perhaps one of them could be a solid 2nd liner, but not both.
We will not be a good team until our top 6 drastically improves. We have Hall who's a big time difference maker and someone like Zajac who is an all-around great 2nd line center. But besides that, there's just massive issues. Hopefully we have people step up, but I'm not convinced we will ever be a big time offensive team until those guys are out of the top 6. Perhaps one of them could be a solid 2nd liner, but not both.
- May 1, 2011
- 130,625
- 58,212
The bottom 6 does need to get better or we'll never get any secondary scoring, but maybe the best way for that to happen is to start sliding some of Henrique, Palmieri and Cammalleri down. Though I'm not sure they'd be 45-50 point scorers as middle 6 players, rather than getting that as top 6 players.
Another good top 6 forward acquisition of some kind up top and maybe replacing Kalinin, DSP, Josefson, etc, with two of Henrique, Palmieri and Cammalleri in those spots would do us some good. Especially if Zacha has more of a breakout next season and Wood can improve or maybe JQ comes on and can produce 30 or so points.
kiwidevil
____________________
- Mar 10, 2008
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Wait for Camm to be on his 12 point in 8 game streak, then trade him.
Also, we have been way less than 20% chance to make the playoffs for a long time now. And these figures are not generated by some geek who discovered hockey yesterday.
Even more so when you realise the NHL is basically a .500 league. Unless you are extremely bad, which Ottawa is not. So even when we are 3 points behind Sens . . . but, they have 4 games in hand. We are in reality 7 points out, at best.
I get wanting these points for Hall's sanity and blind hope, but this team needs all the help it can get. And, it's not going to get it by achieving loser points in the dog days of the season or scratching out wins, getting badly outshot and outplayed basically every game. Only to pick in the "could be a 2nd liner/top 4 more likely to be a bottom 6/bottom pair type player". We need as many shots as we can at picking up some franchise altering players.
That's the hardest thing about this whole process. On paper, our team doesn't look really bad, but it's hard to argue we are even above mediocre,when we never dominate even the weakest teams, and the games we do win seem like a case of lucky scoring rather than a it seem like it's only a matter of time before we score the next goal.
Bottom line, as a lot of you say here. We are in the middle of a rebuild. And, we need more chips in the draft or to use to build this team.
Also, we have been way less than 20% chance to make the playoffs for a long time now. And these figures are not generated by some geek who discovered hockey yesterday.
Even more so when you realise the NHL is basically a .500 league. Unless you are extremely bad, which Ottawa is not. So even when we are 3 points behind Sens . . . but, they have 4 games in hand. We are in reality 7 points out, at best.
I get wanting these points for Hall's sanity and blind hope, but this team needs all the help it can get. And, it's not going to get it by achieving loser points in the dog days of the season or scratching out wins, getting badly outshot and outplayed basically every game. Only to pick in the "could be a 2nd liner/top 4 more likely to be a bottom 6/bottom pair type player". We need as many shots as we can at picking up some franchise altering players.
That's the hardest thing about this whole process. On paper, our team doesn't look really bad, but it's hard to argue we are even above mediocre,when we never dominate even the weakest teams, and the games we do win seem like a case of lucky scoring rather than a it seem like it's only a matter of time before we score the next goal.
Bottom line, as a lot of you say here. We are in the middle of a rebuild. And, we need more chips in the draft or to use to build this team.
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HischierSeDgewOrk
Registered User
Playoffs are clearly out of reach. 6 points behind Toronto and they have 3 games in hand. plus all the other teams between us and them. Not realistic.
About 3 points separate 12 teams so it's going to be a fine line whether you pick 3rd or 13th in the draft. every point counts. We need a gift and need to win one of the top 3 picks....
but...knowing the devils they will go on a meaningless win streak and cangelosi will go on and on about us having a shot at the playoffs when we're 10 points out with 4 games left. same old song and dance here. we'll pick 12th and then everyone will complain about how we drafted a bust....but but those 2 extra wins are HUGE in the development of our youngsters...BULLCRAP
SpeakingOfTheDevils
Devils Advocate
This is just silly hindsight.
Also, who would've taken him? This year, the extra year *next* year is seemingly an issue. Last year, he would've had TWO more years.
No team looking to acquire a Cammalleri-type would have had the cap flexbility to take on essentially 2.5 years of Camm @ $5M.
so am I the only one who thinks noesen will be better than pretty much atleast 6 of the our forwards already? cause our forward group is actually a joke. Honestly kinda excited to watch a new face who supposedly had talent.
Zippy316
aka Zippo
Henrique has almost always been a poor possession player relative to the team. He's not much different this year. His scoring rate 5-on-5 is basically the same as it was last year. Henrique's always been a volume scorer. When he scores, it comes in bunches.
Palmieri's 5-on-5 goal production is down considerably, but in all honesty, thinking Palmieri was going to repeat a 30 goal performance was unreasonable. His production has been down 5-on-5, but he's been stepping it up of late. I'm going to predict his numbers level out to close to last year.
The big thing with these two is they had some of the worst slumps of their career to start the year and it coincided with the teams slump. They took the brunt of a lot of the blame early in the year, and rightfully so, but they've been better of late. The other thing is they haven't replicated their PP numbers from last year, and in Palmieri's case, he's not scoring goals but rather picking up assists from his shots this year. Often times, that goes overlooked to many but he's still producing.
In all honesty, the team improves as a whole when Shero actually decides it's time to spend to fill out the team. Not just the stop gap options like Parenteau, Quincey, Schlemko, Kennedy, etc. Right now, we're in a feeling period for the kids to see what we have and what we will need. The defense is first up for a major improvement and investment and I think that's coming this off-season. We're likely going to see one more year of the same forward situation before Shero decides to spend there as well.
I'm thinking the goal with the fwd's is to build almost strictly from within.
Unless we can pull a #1 lhd from the draft I think that is where we look to add a big name vet.
Unless we can pull a #1 lhd from the draft I think that is where we look to add a big name vet.
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
The issue is the expectations cast on guys like Henrique and Palmieri. People see the 30 goal totals from last year and expect them to be first line players. They're not.
On a perennial contender, this is where you slot the Devils' forwards:
Hall - ??? - ???
Cammalleri - Zajac - Palmieri
Henrique - Zacha - Parenteau
Wood - Fiddler - Bennett
We're missing a first line center and first line right wing. Obviously things aren't that black and white - you don't need to fill those slots with top line players to be good, as you can be good via depth and defense and goaltending.
But the bottom line is that Henrique and Palmieri are in over their heads. Facing second and third pairing defenders with lower ice time would make those two look a lot better.
On a perennial contender, this is where you slot the Devils' forwards:
Hall - ??? - ???
Cammalleri - Zajac - Palmieri
Henrique - Zacha - Parenteau
Wood - Fiddler - Bennett
We're missing a first line center and first line right wing. Obviously things aren't that black and white - you don't need to fill those slots with top line players to be good, as you can be good via depth and defense and goaltending.
But the bottom line is that Henrique and Palmieri are in over their heads. Facing second and third pairing defenders with lower ice time would make those two look a lot better.
day1devilsfan
Registered User
Time to let old #13 sit in the press box and watch a few games. I am excited to see what Noesen can do tonight with Zacha & JJ.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
Might be the first time I've ever agreed with you. Not surprisingly no advanced stats were used in your argument
Only thing I disagree with (besides Fiddler still being on this team) is that Henrique really has to pass Cammy. He's younger, not too injury prone, and a player who is supposed to be part of the team's "core".
Zippy316
aka Zippo
Might be the first time I've ever agreed with you. Not surprisingly no advanced stats were used in your argument
Only thing I disagree with (besides Fiddler still being on this team) is that Henrique really has to pass Cammy. He's younger, not too injury prone, and a player who is supposed to be part of the team's "core".
I think he's talking about is if you take the players we have now and put them in their idea roles on a contender right now, that's where they would be.
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