Devils 2016-17 team discussion (player news and notes) - Offseason Edition

[Cult of Hynes]

His own coach admits he's killing them right now. He said he is mooring down the third pairing.
Like I said, please explain how someone who hasnt been playing bad has a double digit minus +/- on a team like St Louis the past few years.

Why in the hell would we over pay for him when he is playing like **** as a third pairing guy on a stacked team and played like **** on a team like St Louis the past few season?


I know +/- is flawed and isn't the end all be all for determining who a good dman is, but when you have a
-14 on St Louis last year, (worst on the team) and -8 in the playoffs (also worst on the team) on a team that made it to the WCF it's kind of telling.
St Louis was obviously inconsistent this year, so you can look at his -11 this year and ignore it if you want. But in the playoffs with Washington he is a -7. Granted the entire team is playing like ****, but he is also responsible for them playing like **** as well.

 

[MichaelJ]

I think a top 6 center and RW would do much more.

Draft Patrick. Rescue Tavares from NYI next year.

Hall-Tavares-Patrick
Zacha-McLeod-Palmieri

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

His own coach admits he's killing them right now. He said he is mooring down the third pairing. He is so bad right now he is the worst third pairing dman on the team.
Like I said, please explain how someone who hasnt been playing bad has a double digit minus +/- on a team like St Louis the past few years.

Why in the hell would we over pay for him when he is playing like **** as a third pairing guy on a stacked team and played like **** on a team like St Louis the past few season?

this is based on 100% absolutely nothing.

He had 56 points this year and 40+ the previous 3 seasons.

 

[MadDevil]

Oh for **** sake, we're trotting out +/- as an indicator of defensive ability again? This isn't the freaking early 2000's anymore where you can get by with a bunch of chip the puck out defensemen. You need guys who can move the puck, and guess what, those type of players are going to turn it over once in a while. It's ****ing ridiculous how people look at one turnover and completely ignore the positives said player brings. If you're going to pine away for a guy who can put up 50 points and be good defensively, you might as well wish for a ****ing unicorn while you're at it.

Am I completely comfortable with giving Shattenkirk $7 million a year? No, but that doesn't mean we should say "screw it, we don't need that kind of player" and hope that this mythical good at everything defenseman is just going to appear.

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

this is based on 100% absolutely nothing.

He had 56 points this year and 40+ the previous 3 seasons.

Who needs offense when you've been ranked one of the worst offensive teams in the past couple of years?

 

[Billdo]

played like **** on a team like St Louis the past few season?

Wut?

 

[AfroThunder396]

Corsi, +/-, and other possession stats are team stats and not necessarily reflective of individual performance.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Oh for **** sake, we're trotting out +/- as an indicator of defensive ability again? This isn't the freaking early 2000's anymore where you can get by with a bunch of chip the puck out defensemen. You need guys who can move the puck, and guess what, those type of players are going to turn it over once in a while. It's ****ing ridiculous how people look at one turnover and completely ignore the positives said player brings. If you're going to pine away for a guy who can put up 50 points and be good defensively, you might as well wish for a ****ing unicorn while you're at it.

Am I completely comfortable with giving Shattenkirk $7 million a year? No, but that doesn't mean we should say "screw it, we don't need that kind of player" and hope that this mythical good at everything defenseman is just going to appear.

What ever you say Mad. +/- is flawed, doesnt mean you toss it out because of it. Kind of telling when a player has a team leading -14 on a cup contending team in both the regular season and also led in having a negative +/- in the playoffs. And currently he is helping the Pens win more than the Caps with how bad he has been in the playoffs for Washington. His own coach admits he has been bad. But yea, you know better right?

I'm gonna not even bother with the rest of that hyperbolic strawman ********.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Corsi, +/-, and other possession stats are team stats and not necessarily reflective of individual performance.

It is a bit reflective of individual performances when you are a team leading minus on a cup contending team known for pretty good possession stats.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Remember how Jaromir Jagr had zero goals for Boston in the playoffs a few years and it subsequently ended his career? Oh wait, it didn't, it's almost as if small sample sizes means absolutely nothing.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

What ever you say Mad. +/- is flawed, doesnt mean you toss it out because of it. Kind of telling when a player has a team leading -14 on a cup contending team in both the regular season and the playoffs. And currently he is helping the Pens win more than the Caps with how bad he has been in the playoffs for Washington. His own coach admits he has been bad. But yea, you know better right?

Ovechkin was -35 a few years ago and had 50 goals.

Tarasenko was a minus player this year. So were Seguin and Benn. So were Gaudreau, Nylander, etc. I guess all those guys suck too.

and I am not putting any stock whatsoever in a handful of games. Ever hear of sample sizes?

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Remember how Jaromir Jagr had zero goals for Boston in the playoffs a few years and it subsequently ended his career? Oh wait, it didn't, it's almost as if small sample sizes means absolutely nothing.

Two seasons and two different playoffs on two different teams, both of which were considered cup contenders.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Why in the hell would we over pay for him when he is playing like **** as a third pairing guy on a stacked team and played like **** on a team like St Louis the past few season?

We wouldn't. Fortunately he's been one of the better offensive defensemen in the NHL. We likely aren't getting him, so your conniption isn't necessary.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson, David Krejci, TJ Brodie, Nick Foligno, Aaron Ekblad, Jake Muzzin, Alex Galchenyuk, James Neal, Damon Severson, Jakub Voracek, Jonathan Drouin, and Henrik Sedin are all excellent players that had the worst +/- on their team this season.

That's pretty elite company.

 

[AfroThunder396]

Two seasons and two different playoffs on two different teams, both of which were considered cup contenders.

To be clear, you're claiming that 11 points in 20 games for a defenseman on a team that was the #15 offense in the league is bad?

 

[MadDevil]

We have a defense full of so called safe types (Greene, Merrill, Santini, Lovejoy). We need somebody other than Severson who can help in the transition game. Shattenkirk may not be winning a Norris anytime soon, but he could still help the transition and PP immensely. Defensemen are expensive. That's just the way it is. I'd rather take a chance on Shattenkirk than to try to piecemeal together a blueline again. It's not like we're a cap team that can't afford to sign a big contract. Especially when you consider by the time our kids will be needing payraises guys like Cammalleri and Greene will be off the books, with Zajac and Cory not too far behind.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Oliver Ekman-Larsson, David Krejci, TJ Brodie, Nick Foligno, Aaron Ekblad, Jake Muzzin, Alex Galchenyuk, James Neal, Damon Severson, Jakub Voracek, Jonathan Drouin, and Henrik Sedin are all excellent players that had the worst +/- on their team this season.

That's pretty elite company.

7 of those players are on teams that didn't make the playoffs lol. Severson isn't excellent.

To be clear, you're claiming that 11 points in 20 games for a defenseman on a team that was the #15 offense in the league is bad?

Did I say he is bad offensively? Dont think I ever did. I think I said he isn't worth the money that it would take to get him here given how much of a defensive liability he is. I don't expect him to be a norris winner or a perfect player, no one is, but I expect him for 7 million to not play like he has played the past few season or how he is playing in these playoffs, especially since he is a third pairing dman right now and would be asked to do much more on the Devils.

We have a defense full of so called safe types (Greene, Merrill, Santini, Lovejoy). We need somebody other than Severson who can help in the transition game. Shattenkirk may not be winning a Norris anytime soon, but he could still help the transition and PP immensely. Defensemen are expensive. That's just the way it is. I'd rather take a chance on Shattenkirk than to try to piecemeal together a blueline again. It's not like we're a cap team that can't afford to sign a big contract. Especially when you consider by the time our kids will be needing payraises guys like Cammalleri and Greene will be off the books, with Zajac and Cory not too far behind.

Shattenkirk isn't worth the money. He is a glorified PP specialist. He has weapons like Ovechkin, Backstrom, Oshie, Kuznetsov at his disposal and he is falling flat on his face all while playing a limited role and not being asked to do more, something he would be asked to do here with less talent.

Some of you want to say don't rush things, but then you guys want to over pay for Shattenkirk lol.

 

[Tundra]

Shattenkirk was left off Team USA for more reliable defensive players. Make of it what you will.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Shattenkirk was left off Team USA for more reliable defensive players. Make of it what you will.

and look how well team USA did.

 

[OmNomNom]

team USA selections aren't always based on who is "best", it depends on what the coach wants/who he likes. it's like how mike mcleod hardly got to play during world juniors - coach preference

 

[Ripshot 43]

Lol, I don't even know why you guys bother anymore.

 

[OmNomNom]

just watch shattenkirk have a killer game tonight. just watch him get like 2g1a LOL

 

[Billdo]

Shattenkirk was left off Team USA for more reliable defensive players. Make of it what you will.

If you believe that the Johnsons deserved to be on that team more than Shattenkirk you're out to lunch.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

team USA selections aren't always based on who is "best", it depends on what the coach wants/who he likes. it's like how mike mcleod hardly got to play during world juniors - coach preference

Pretty much, though the team was really poorly constructed. I think Justin Faulk not being there was a bigger snub.

Speaking of Carolina defensemen. Would you guys be open to trading with them to get Hannifan and what would you guys be willing to give them?

 

[OmNomNom]

Pretty much, though the team was really poorly constructed. I think Justin Faulk not being there was a bigger snub.

Speaking of Carolina defensemen. Would you guys be open to trading with them to get Hannifan and what would you guys be willing to give them?

the question is what do the hurricanes need? based on a quick look at their roster this past year, looks like they NEED a RW and another RD. not sure if we're good trading partners...

didn't someone propose zacha for hanifin straight up?