Prospect Info: Detroit Red Wings 2021 Summer Prospect #5

[Henkka]

They would have been high in these polls 3 years ago. How far we've come.

That's when the poll/voting finally gets interesting. These no-brainers in the Top5... are just no-brainers.

 

[deca guard]

VELENO HAS BULKED UP :

 

[Lil Bert]

I've got Berggren, Veleno, then Johansson but I wonder when it's all said and done where the chips fall on our THREE 6'4" Defensemen in Tuomisto, Wallinder and Buium. We have a hell of a prospect pool and these high second rounders are probably going to end up around 8-12 best. Insane.

 

[Wyzer Plan]

Don't discount veleno, these kids aren't even done growing physiologically let alone mentally. I think he's going to turn some heads this year if he is centering Raymond and or Berggren this year in GR.

 

[Shaman464]

Don't discount veleno, these kids aren't even done growing physiologically let alone mentally. I think he's going to turn some heads this year if he is centering Raymond and or Berggren this year in GR.

Physically they don't till early to mid 20s. But mentally you don't have a ton of room to grow in your early 20s. His offensive instincts aren't going to drop like a new pair... well anyway, I wouldn't count on new offense to be found in your calculations as to where he falls in the depth chart.

 

[Bench]

Physically they don't till early to mid 20s. But mentally you don't have a ton of room to grow in your early 20s.

Not sure that's entirely true.

Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years

COX: Is this idea that the brains of 18 year olds aren't fully developed a matter of settled science?

AAMODT: Yes. The car rental companies got to it first, but neuroscientists have caught up and brain scans show clearly that the brain is not fully finished developing until about age 25.

COX: To not be too clinical in the spin that we put on this, what parts of the brain are we talking about and what changes happen between the ages of 18 and, let's say, 25?

AAMODT: So the changes that happen between 18 and 25 are a continuation of the process that starts around puberty, and 18 year olds are about halfway through that process. Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

And the other part of the brain that is different in adolescence is that the brain's reward system becomes highly active right around the time of puberty and then gradually goes back to an adult level, which it reaches around age 25 and that makes adolescents and young adults more interested in entering uncertain situations to seek out and try to find whether there might be a possibility of gaining something from those situations.

COX: So this is important. Are the physiological changes in the brain, in terms of the development of young people, as significant and impactful as the cultural changes and environmental changes that they go through vis-a-vis peer pressure things of that sort?

AAMODT: Well, actually, one of the side effects of these changes in the reward system is that adolescents and young adults become much more sensitive to peer pressure than they were earlier or will be as adults.

So, for instance, a 20 year old is 50 percent more likely to do something risky if two friends are watching than if he's alone.

Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

That part could be pretty relevant to hockey and explain why some players seem to round out their game later in their career, in addition to experience.

 

[Shaman464]

Not sure that's entirely true.

Brain Maturity Extends Well Beyond Teen Years



Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

That part could be pretty relevant to hockey and explain why some players seem to round out their game later in their career, in addition to experience.

The prefrontal cortex isn't going to be that important for hockey. Its going to be important, as the article states, impulse control, and to a lesser extent long term thinking. His ability to score doesn't come from that part of the brain. So you would have a point if he was doing stupid shit like drinking or carrying on, but this is pointless to his ability to play hockey.

 

[lilidk]

I voted Bergreen , but Veleno as NHL player is more sure thing. Berggren could be great player if he stayed healthy

 

[Bench]

The prefrontal cortex isn't going to be that important for hockey. Its going to be important, as the article states, impulse control, and to a lesser extent long term thinking. His ability to score doesn't come from that part of the brain. So you would have a point if he was doing stupid shit like drinking or carrying on, but this is pointless to his ability to play hockey.

I don't know, impulse control seems like an important factor in split second decision making?

And making good decisions with your training and preparation, the long-term organizational parts mentioned... Wouldn't that be helpful?

Isn't agree 25ish when most people seem to agree that forwards and defenders begin to make the best decisions with and away from the puck?

Look I'm not saying it's the biggest factor or anything, raw physical ability trumps all, but I do very much believe all of us mature mentally plenty between 20 and 25. And when so little physically separates some of these kids in the top 1% of the world, I'm not going to discount the mental growth part of it entirely.

 

[Shaman464]

I don't know, impulse control seems like an important factor in split second decision making?

And making good decisions with your training and preparation, the long-term organizational parts mentioned... Wouldn't that be helpful?

Isn't agree 25ish when most people seem to agree that forwards and defenders begin to make the best decisions with and away from the puck?

Look I'm not saying it's the biggest factor or anything, raw physical ability trumps all, but I do very much believe all of us mature mentally plenty between 20 and 25. And when so little physically separates some of these kids in the top 1% of the world, I'm not going to discount the mental growth part of it entirely.

No, by impulse control they mean a whole list of behaviors completely unrelated to hockey.

As for age, I think that is more of an experience and physical development thing than anything else. Veleno's deficiencies tend to be the ones that either you have or you don't. Its why most people peg him as a third line center.

 

[Bench]

No, by impulse control they mean a whole list of behaviors completely unrelated to hockey.

Of course they do, because that's what they study. That doesn't mean we can't apply it to other aspects of life. You don't think there's any bleed between impulsive decision making off the ice to that on the ice? Like it's just completely independent? I'm skeptical.

I don't know. Having been around some real risk takers on the ice, they were usually that way in their actual life too. Pretty unusual to find a cerebral player ala Lidstrom that makes calculated decisions on the ice that off the ice was a big drinker, rode a motorcycle without a helmet, etc.

But you're pretty locked in, no worries, thanks for the chat regardless.

 

[Shaman464]

Of course they do, because that's what they study. That doesn't mean we can't apply it to other aspects of life. You don't think there's any bleed between impulsive decision making off the ice to that on the ice? Like it's just completely independent? I'm skeptical.

I don't know. Having been around some real risk takers on the ice, they were usually that way in their actual life too. Pretty unusual to find a cerebral player ala Lidstrom that makes calculated decisions on the ice that off the ice was a big drinker, rode a motorcycle without a helmet, etc.

But you're pretty locked in, no worries, thanks for the chat regardless.

I would be over the moon if he finds that next gear, but I don't think he has it. Its why I want Detroit to focus on finding top centers.

That being said

1st line: 2022 1st round pick
2nd line: Larkin
3rd line: Veleno

Would be the makings of championship level center depth.

 

[bellringer77]

Went Veleno based upon him looking good in the NHL. Add McIsaac

 

[Shaman464]

Went Veleno based upon him looking good in the NHL. Add McIsaac

So, I have a question with this type of ranking: How much better should a player's potential be to outshine a player being a lock for a bottom 6 position?

 

[Vector Cereal]

Of course they do, because that's what they study. That doesn't mean we can't apply it to other aspects of life. You don't think there's any bleed between impulsive decision making off the ice to that on the ice? Like it's just completely independent? I'm skeptical.

I don't know. Having been around some real risk takers on the ice, they were usually that way in their actual life too. Pretty unusual to find a cerebral player ala Lidstrom that makes calculated decisions on the ice that off the ice was a big drinker, rode a motorcycle without a helmet, etc.

But you're pretty locked in, no worries, thanks for the chat regardless.

Hockey-related decisions are made in the amygdala

 

[Bench]

Hockey-related decisions are made in the amygdala

I'll take your word for it. This guy was my professor.

 

[RabidBadger]

Hockey-related decisions are made in the amygdala

Mine came from the olfactory bulb. That's why I never developed well.

 

[MBH]

Veleno.
NHL skater.
NHL size.
@ center.

 

[bellringer77]

So, I have a question with this type of ranking: How much better should a player's potential be to outshine a player being a lock for a bottom 6 position?

I think it’s a different for every player I guess? For me I put a good amount of stock to what’s shown at the NHL level and what I’ve seen with my eyes. For me I figure Veleno should at least be a 3c and can work on a penalty kill and be defensively responsible. I personally put that higher then someone who maybe might be a top six winger. But I’ve also never seen Berggren play in person

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I have Veleno in this round. While I am still not necessarily a huge believer in his offensive ceiling, I trust he will find a way to make an impact on a roster. He should be a weapon on the third line with Ras as we get more talent it allows us to leverage them and you see the potential to play great post-season hockey swapping the center assignment.

On the plus side with as much talent as Veleno has always possessed, he does seem to be a slower learner but once he gets it he takes off. Will pro hockey be similar, I think so and it speaks to his hockey intelligence and his willingness to grind and maximize what he is. You see it a lot in his interviews and his blogging for the Wings since he has been drafted. He has a maturity and drive that I like a lot. But this is really only a tiebreaker thing for me.

Joe Veleno is a fantastic skater, he is a player a coach can trust and he is the kind of guy that makes the right play pretty routinely. He might not be flashy even if you believe he could be, but the dude is just a solid reliable guy. I hope more offense comes and he surprises, but I see him as a piece when we are good again and I think he will have a bigger role than a guy like Berggren because of how flexible Veleno is in terms of providing what I think an NHL coach is going to want. Excited to see him more with the big club this year at some point. Also pretty excited if Berggren - Veleno - Raymond is our #1 line in GR to start the year because that is going to be too much pace and skill for a lot of teams at that level.

My add would be McIsaac/Lindstrom one of those guys.

 

[Henkka]

I have Veleno in this round. While I am still not necessarily a huge believer in his offensive ceiling, I trust he will find a way to make an impact on a roster. He should be a weapon on the third line with Ras as we get more talent it allows us to leverage them and you see the potential to play great post-season hockey swapping the center assignment.

On the plus side with as much talent as Veleno has always possessed, he does seem to be a slower learner but once he gets it he takes off. Will pro hockey be similar, I think so and it speaks to his hockey intelligence and his willingness to grind and maximize what he is. You see it a lot in his interviews and his blogging for the Wings since he has been drafted. He has a maturity and drive that I like a lot. But this is really only a tiebreaker thing for me.

Joe Veleno is a fantastic skater, he is a player a coach can trust and he is the kind of guy that makes the right play pretty routinely. He might not be flashy even if you believe he could be, but the dude is just a solid reliable guy. I hope more offense comes and he surprises, but I see him as a piece when we are good again and I think he will have a bigger role than a guy like Berggren because of how flexible Veleno is in terms of providing what I think an NHL coach is going to want. Excited to see him more with the big club this year at some point. Also pretty excited if Berggren - Veleno - Raymond is our #1 line in GR to start the year because that is going to be too much pace and skill for a lot of teams at that level.

I have the same feelings. That's why I rank him ahead of Berggren.

 

[newfy]

I have Veleno in this round. While I am still not necessarily a huge believer in his offensive ceiling, I trust he will find a way to make an impact on a roster. He should be a weapon on the third line with Ras as we get more talent it allows us to leverage them and you see the potential to play great post-season hockey swapping the center assignment.

On the plus side with as much talent as Veleno has always possessed, he does seem to be a slower learner but once he gets it he takes off. Will pro hockey be similar, I think so and it speaks to his hockey intelligence and his willingness to grind and maximize what he is. You see it a lot in his interviews and his blogging for the Wings since he has been drafted. He has a maturity and drive that I like a lot. But this is really only a tiebreaker thing for me.

Joe Veleno is a fantastic skater, he is a player a coach can trust and he is the kind of guy that makes the right play pretty routinely. He might not be flashy even if you believe he could be, but the dude is just a solid reliable guy. I hope more offense comes and he surprises, but I see him as a piece when we are good again and I think he will have a bigger role than a guy like Berggren because of how flexible Veleno is in terms of providing what I think an NHL coach is going to want. Excited to see him more with the big club this year at some point. Also pretty excited if Berggren - Veleno - Raymond is our #1 line in GR to start the year because that is going to be too much pace and skill for a lot of teams at that level.

My add would be McIsaac/Lindstrom one of those guys.

I went Berggren after watching what he did last year but agree with this about Veleno. If the offense doesnt come hes still going to be a really useful NHLer. Carries the puck well, does everything right, leader, PKs, good defensively and attention to detail. He seems to lack a killer instrinct in the offensive zone but if he was lights out offensively we wouldnt be talking about him at 5

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

VELENO HAS BULKED UP :

I like that he is putting on more weight. I appreciate the skating angle, but for the guys that are elite in that department I think putting on a little more bulk even while maybe just taking a bit off your speed it makes them far more powerful. I keep saying I think Larkin should be playing at a little bigger weight, glad to see the gains Veleno is making in terms of strength.

 

[deca guard]

I like that he is putting on more weight. I appreciate the skating angle, but for the guys that are elite in that department I think putting on a little more bulk even while maybe just taking a bit off your speed it makes them far more powerful. I keep saying I think Larkin should be playing at a little bigger weight, glad to see the gains Veleno is making in terms of strength.

for me larks a more agile and finer edged skater than jv whose speed enhances his game . its just that he hasnt had linemates that could enhance his goal totals . but put him with a vrana and raymond , '' the jet line '' , and these better skating more talented players are feeding him all kinds of easy gimme's that hes able to be open for because of his wheels . i want this dangerous speed line big time to add excitement to red wing games

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Jonatan Berggren add Jared McIsaac.