Proposal: Det / NYI

[Hen Kolland]

youre the one who had a problem not i, the op understood my response. you just didnt like that I said AA had zero value to the islanders.

you Ken Holland had a problem, youre the one talking about in a vacuum, while the rest of us were talking specifics about the Red Wings and Islanders. Now youre just trying to save face because you know you cant get the 2 picks

put simply your ego was bruised boo hoo for you

certian red wung fans have a habit of trying to dump their unwanted players on the Islanders, its a regular occurence, like Jimmy Howard, or Mike Green, and you always ask for premium assets and then get pissed when we tell you we arent your personal trash heap.

We dont want your tired, your poor, your expensive declining players, Mike Mibury has left the building.

You justified dropping one of the worst contracts in the league on someone because you didn't have the need for a 23 year old RFA. That is unfathomably one sided, it's painful. I have no issue with the fact that AA has no value to the Islanders. I agreed with that point from the very beginning. Outside of a vacuum, the deal won't happen. I agreed with that point from the very beginning. Go find me where I said anything contradictory to that. You just refuse to try to understand what anyone says.

How the hell are you going to sit there and complain about Mike Green when you've complained about needing defensemen in every single post to this point? We were damn well ready to give Mike Green away with max retention when he was healthy. Mike Green @ $3M on an expiring contract was the best option on the market when he was healthy. He was exactly what you wanted this year.

The fact that you are adding these different elements that aren't even related to the conversation tells me that you know you are wrong but won't ever quit because YOUR ego can't take it. Trust me, you've earned this, your the worst poster on this site. I'm done.

 

[CREW99AW]

You justi

How the hell are you going to sit there and complain about Mike Green when you've complained about needing defensemen in every single post to this point? We were damn well ready to give Mike Green away with max retention when he was healthy. Mike Green @ $3M on an expiring contract was the best option on the market when he was healthy. He was exactly what you wanted this year.

ne.

The isles had one of the better offenses in the league and needed a durable ,solid in his own end of the ice top 4 blueliner. Isles needed to move away from the high flying pond hockey and
Green would have just more pond hockey.
Also, if I am giving up a 1st in a strong draft, I want some term left on my new defensemen's deal or I am back shopping for D on July 1st.
And no,not interested giving 30 something yr old Green,on the downside of his career, a retirement extension. Already made that mistake with Ladd.

 

[72hockey guy]

You justified dropping one of the worst contracts in the league on someone because you didn't have the need for a 23 year old RFA. That is unfathomably one sided, it's painful. I have no issue with the fact that AA has no value to the Islanders. I agreed with that point from the very beginning. Outside of a vacuum, the deal won't happen. I agreed with that point from the very beginning. Go find me where I said anything contradictory to that. You just refuse to try to understand what anyone says.

How the hell are you going to sit there and complain about Mike Green when you've complained about needing defensemen in every single post to this point? We were damn well ready to give Mike Green away with max retention when he was healthy. Mike Green @ $3M on an expiring contract was the best option on the market when he was healthy. He was exactly what you wanted this year.

The fact that you are adding these different elements that aren't even related to the conversation tells me that you know you are wrong but won't ever quit because YOUR ego can't take it. Trust me, you've earned this, your the worst poster on this site. I'm done.

nope im perfectly fine. i just know that you guys have a history of trading players and then them not performing as you say they will, in fact the Detroit Free press made a point of it recently

Tomas Tatar the latest Detroit Red Wings castoff to disappoint elsewhere

"Tatar has joined the list of Wings players who have not performed as expected after leaving Detroit. "

whether its Tatar, or Smith or Mrazek,or Jurco or Quincey or even Datsyuk The wings have a history of trading away players who dont perform once they leave Detroit .... forgive me if Im smart enough to not want to be the Wings latest Suckers.

all season Red Wing fans were saying We'd regret not giving up a first for Green or for Howard, and I havent regreted it yet...when is it supposed to start? seems pretty clear by now, that nobody wanted them FOR ANYTHING

its because im aware of this history that im perfectly fine with not trading with your team...so take your butt hurt somewhere else cause we aint buying

 

[Hen Kolland]

The isles had one of the better offenses in the league and needed a durable ,solid in his own end of the ice top 4 blueliner. Isles needed to move away from the high flying pond hockey and
Green would have just more pond hockey.
Also, if I am giving up a 1st in a strong draft, I want some term left on my new defensemen's deal or I am back shopping for D on July 1st.
And no,not interested giving 30 something yr old Green,on the downside of his career, a retirement extension. Already made that mistake with Ladd.

Definitely didn't need a first coming back for Green. Yes, that's the hope, but I understand that's a lofty payment. It's not the exact fit that you wanted, but the market was pretty non-existent due to everyone holding out for the Karlsson and eventually the McDonagh deals to fall where they may. The injury threw a massive wrench into things, but even before he got hurt I would've given up Green with max retention for like a second plus a throw away prospect because Ken Holland loves taking random prospects with no future role in the NHL.

With as bad as the Islanders were at stopping other teams this year I would have tried anything, but I understand the reservations, Mike Green is certainly not a defensive stalwart.

 

[BStinson]

nope im perfectly fine. i just know that you guys have a history of trading players and then them not performing as you say they will, in fact the Detroit Free press made a point of it recently

Tomas Tatar the latest Detroit Red Wings castoff to disappoint elsewhere

"Tatar has joined the list of Wings players who have not performed as expected after leaving Detroit. "

whether its Tatar, or Smith or Mrazek,or Jurco or Quincey or even Datsyuk The wings have a history of trading away players who dont perform once they leave Detroit .... forgive me if Im smart enough to not want to be the Wings latest Suckers.

all season Red Wing fans were saying We'd regret not giving up a first for Green or for Howard, and I havent regreted it yet...when is it supposed to start? seems pretty clear by now, that nobody wanted them FOR ANYTHING

its because im aware of this history that im perfectly fine with not trading with your team...so take your butt hurt somewhere else cause we aint buying

That Datsyuk guy definitely didn’t perform that well. Jeez 0 points in the NHL after the trade, who would’ve thought... Some of those guys left as FAs too...

 

[Hen Kolland]

nope im perfectly fine. i just know that you guys have a history of trading players and then them not performing as you say they will, in fact the Detroit Free press made a point of it recently

Tomas Tatar the latest Detroit Red Wings castoff to disappoint elsewhere

"Tatar has joined the list of Wings players who have not performed as expected after leaving Detroit. "

whether its Tatar, or Smith or Mrazek,or Jurco or Quincey or even Datsyuk The wings have a history of trading away players who dont perform once they leave Detroit .... forgive me if Im smart enough to not want to be the Wings latest Suckers.

its because im aware of this history that im perfectly fine with not trading with your team...so take your butt hurt somewhere else cause we aint buying

What the hell??

Datsyuk retired and the Coyotes wanted his cap to make it to the floor and get a better pick.

The Tatar trade hasn't even had a chance to be fully assessed yet. Let's hold off on making some grandiose statement about how it's a bad trade for Vegas (I say this in jest, we know you won't wait). They have a quite a few years of team control that will be quite different than joining a team at the deadline.

The rest of the players you listed are just trash players. They weren't good with the Wings when they were traded and they weren't good for their new teams. Look at the price paid and what the team got out of the trade...Smith actually played well for the Rangers initially; he wasn't bad until they resigned him on their own terms. Jurco was a 4th liner in Detroit and acquired for a 3rd round pick. Detroit waived Quincey the first time, then paid a 1st to get him back, and then left as a free agent more recently. Mrazek was acquired for a 4th that became a 3rd when he won games.

Nothing you brought up supports what you are trying to claim. The only one that MIGHT is the Tatar trade, but I won't make any assessment until I see him actually fail to produce in the future. You have to look what these players were acquired to do and what the price was. There are no egregious deals here. You are just blindly throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

 

[72hockey guy]

wait a second, did you not just say two posts ago that Green

" He was exactly what you wanted this year."

and now one measly post later you say:

"Mike Green is certainly not a defensive stalwart. "

so tell me which one is it. or do Red Wings fans just say whatever they need to to sucker others into a bad deal?

lets see you explain this away , they are your exact words, sure seems contradictory to me.

and regarding those others, you werent calling them trash players before you traded them... Thats the point.

im done wasting my time with you, you just proved youll say anything rather than admit you've ripped off teams

 

[72hockey guy]

That Datsyuk guy definitely didn’t perform that well. Jeez 0 points in the NHL after the trade, who would’ve thought... Some of those guys left as FAs too...

youre right BStinson, Datsyuk was a different kind of deal. so i shouldnt include him. Its only my opinion that Arizona could have gotten more for eating the cap hit but many on TSN questioned it at the time as well, some said Holland took advantage of a new GM

 

[Hen Kolland]

wait a second, did you not just say two posts ago that Green

" He was exactly what you wanted this year."

and now one measly post later you say:

"Mike Green is certainly not a defensive stalwart. "

so tell me which one is it. or do Red Wings fans just say whatever they need to to sucker others into a bad deal?

lets see you explain this away , they are your exact words, sure seems contradictory to me.

and regarding those others, you werent calling them trash players before you traded them... Thats the point.

im done wasting my time with you, you just proved youll say anything rather than admit you've ripped off teams

I'm sure you meant to reply to me but those buttons can be hard to figure out, I know.

I said Mike Green is exactly what you wanted because he was a defenseman, that's it. Someone clarified that they wouldn't want Green because he wasn't a top 4 defensive defenseman. So I elaborated on my point of view and conceded that it wasn't a perfect fit, but that he was pretty much the best option that you could have afforded. That's how good discussions work...not the word vomit that you contribute.

You also can't lump me as speaking for all of Detroit. I hated Smith, I hated Jurco, I hated Quincey, I hated Mrazek. So when I say they are trash players, that is my personal opinion on them. What other fans say about them are their opinions, they are entitled to have them. But still, look at the prices paid and you realize that a lot of the teams got what they paid for, not much. That isn't ripping people off. That isn't me twisting words. That is fact.

 

[BStinson]

youre right BStinson, Datsyuk was a different kind of deal. so i shouldnt include him. Its only my opinion that Arizona could have gotten more for eating the cap hit but many on TSN questioned it at the time as well, some said Holland took advantage of a new GM

The combination of 7.5 million free in cap space to a team that has an internal budget to get to the floor plus Chychyrn being available made it a win win for Arizona. They were even able to drop actual salary on us. Note - Datsyuk cost Arizona 0 actual dollars.

 

[72hockey guy]

The combination of 7.5 million free in cap space to a team that has an internal budget to get to the floor plus Chychyrn being available made it a win win for Arizona. They were even able to drop actual salary on us. Note - Datsyuk cost Arizona 0 actual dollars.

im aware, i was referring to the cap hit the red wings saved. 7.5Mwas alot of dead weight for the wings to carry. and getting a 2nd and vitale for 4 spots in addition to the cap space gained was a godsend

as the TSN commentater said on air. "Holland took Chayka out to the woodshed"

 

[HisNoodliness]

Looks like this one sparked a ton of argument. So why don't we just put this to rest. Isles fans don't want AA and want more value that AA+ 6 for 11+12...

I wouldn't trade 6 for 11+12+. Let alone add AA, a second or AA + a 2nd for just 11+12 We need to get a guy with first line upside. This draft has a very clear top 9 and it's unlikely to get the level of player we need at 11 and 12. We don't need depth, we don't need middle 6 F or bottom 4 D. We need elite players. Maybe Bouchard, Hughes, Boqvist or Dobson can be top liners for us, maybe not, but we can't afford to move out of the top 10.

Everyone can agree that we don't want this trade, and we aren't going to meet in the middle.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

#6 will help us fill one of said holes so no

 

[Goalie guy]

nope im perfectly fine. i just know that you guys have a history of trading players and then them not performing as you say they will, in fact the Detroit Free press made a point of it recently

Tomas Tatar the latest Detroit Red Wings castoff to disappoint elsewhere

"Tatar has joined the list of Wings players who have not performed as expected after leaving Detroit. "

whether its Tatar, or Smith or Mrazek,or Jurco or Quincey or even Datsyuk The wings have a history of trading away players who dont perform once they leave Detroit .... forgive me if Im smart enough to not want to be the Wings latest Suckers.

all season Red Wing fans were saying We'd regret not giving up a first for Green or for Howard, and I havent regreted it yet...when is it supposed to start? seems pretty clear by now, that nobody wanted them FOR ANYTHING

its because im aware of this history that im perfectly fine with not trading with your team...so take your butt hurt somewhere else cause we aint buying

Well umm lets see Green was hurt so he was going no where and as for Jimmy hes the best we have so hes going no where. And yes before he was hurt there where teams that wanted Green do some damn research! Tatar will be fine he came into a team full of chemistry you don't change that in the play offs, Smith sucked, Jurco sucked, KQ was a 3rd liner and fine at it, and don't ever put Datsyuk in the same group as any of them ever again it shows just how little you know about hockey.

 

[72hockey guy]

Well umm lets see Green was hurt so he was going no where and as for Jimmy hes the best we have so hes going no where. And yes before he was hurt there where teams that wanted Green do some damn research! Tatar will be fine he came into a team full of chemistry you don't change that in the play offs, Smith sucked, Jurco sucked, KQ was a 3rd liner and fine at it, and don't ever put Datsyuk in the same group as any of them ever again it shows just how little you know about hockey.

i fully understand why datsyuk was traded, they just didnt get enough 7.5 million and a 2nd and 5th should get you more than 4 spots in the middle of round 1. and you got squat all for Green and Howard, because no one wanted them for what you were asking

but teams are wise to holland now youre gonna be bad for a long time

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

i fully understand why datsyuk was traded, they just didnt get enough 7.5 million and a 2nd and 5th should get you more than 4 spots in the middle of round 1. and you got squat all for Green and Howard, because no one wanted them for what you were asking

but teams are wise to holland now youre gonna be bad for a long time

I doubt it, people just aren't used to seeing him trade for futures. He is a super conservative guy, it means not much in the way of activity but the moves he goes for he generally wins. My guess is he sells off Nyquist for a nice return at some point this year.

 

[Invictus12]

i fully understand why datsyuk was traded, they just didnt get enough 7.5 million and a 2nd and 5th should get you more than 4 spots in the middle of round 1. and you got squat all for Green and Howard, because no one wanted them for what you were asking

but teams are wise to holland now youre gonna be bad for a long time

Not really... You have a team looking to save money but has to reach the cap floor. Where the hell else were they going to get the cap without paying the money? Supply and demand buddy.

 

[drw02]

I don't see how any Isles fan would decline this. 11 + 12 would almost be the cost to move up to 6 by itself let alone throwing in a young, high potential NHL forward. AA has some flaws, but coachable flaws. His speed/skill combo is a weapon and as he matures he should hopefully develop a more all around game to compliment.

Wings just aren't passing on the chance to get one of the elite D Hughes, Boqvist, or Bouchard or even an elite F like Wahlstrom. Wings need superstars not more depth players.

 

[72hockey guy]

I don't see how any Isles fan would decline this. 11 + 12 would almost be the cost to move up to 6 by itself let alone throwing in a young, high potential NHL forward. AA has some flaws, but coachable flaws. His speed/skill combo is a weapon and as he matures he should hopefully develop a more all around game to compliment.

Wings just aren't passing on the chance to get one of the elite D Hughes, Boqvist, or Bouchard or even an elite F like Wahlstrom. Wings need superstars not more depth players.

very easily actually according to most reputable draft prognosticators there are 8 t0 10 potential first pairing defenseman in this draft. The ability to get 2 of those easily out paces the value of one.As previously stated AA has Zero value to us,

if that doesnt make sense to you, why do any Red Wings fan consider this? that a Red Wing fan proposed this and Islander want no part of it, should give you your answer
.

 

[Oddbob]

i fully understand why datsyuk was traded, they just didnt get enough 7.5 million and a 2nd and 5th should get you more than 4 spots in the middle of round 1. and you got squat all for Green and Howard, because no one wanted them for what you were asking

but teams are wise to holland now youre gonna be bad for a long time

They got nothing for Mike Green, because he had a significant worrying neck issue, which scared teams away, without that, he very well could have landed in Tampa or Washington. Maybe know a few facts before spitting blindly into the wind.

 

[Invictus12]

very easily actually according to most reputable draft prognosticators there are 8 t0 10 potential first pairing defenseman in this draft. The ability to get 2 of those easily out paces the value of one.As previously stated AA has Zero value to us,

if that doesnt make sense to you, why do any Red Wings fan consider this? that a Red Wing fan proposed this and Islander want no part of it, should give you your answer
.

First of all, you need to understand that Red Wings fans, or any other teams fans don't think as one. Second, prognostics don't mean anything if there's a specific player you want. Meaning, you get the choice. Otherwise, teams wouldn't need to scout that much, would they? For Islanders the trade works if a player they want above all else is up on the board. For Red Wings, the deal works if they are not sold on anyone who's up on the board and believe they get the same value with more quantity... Or have an eye on a guy that most likely will still be available later on in the draft. If these criterias are met, for both teams, a deal can be made. Athanasiou is a sweetener at the very best. Fact is, it's that 6 spot that the Islanders might target to get the dips on the guy they want specifically. If they don't have that much of interest then and only then it doesn't make sense for them.

 

[saintunspecified]

I don't see how any Isles fan would decline this. 11 + 12 would almost be the cost to move up to 6 by itself let alone throwing in a young, high potential NHL forward. AA has some flaws, but coachable flaws. His speed/skill combo is a weapon and as he matures he should hopefully develop a more all around game to compliment.

Wings just aren't passing on the chance to get one of the elite D Hughes, Boqvist, or Bouchard or even an elite F like Wahlstrom. Wings need superstars not more depth players.

I agree with you as a NYI fan. I'd deal 11 and 12 for the chance to draft Hughes. If Hughes is already gone, the pick is worth less IMO. It's worth the gamble to take a shot at a #1D, but otherwise not. I imagine than Detroit does a similar computation, and that there's no deal there for that reason. The teams are too similar for there to be a match.

 

[72hockey guy]

First of all, you need to understand that Red Wings fans, or any other teams fans don't think as one. Second, prognostics don't mean anything if there's a specific player you want. Meaning, you get the choice. Otherwise, teams wouldn't need to scout that much, would they? For Islanders the trade works if a player they want above all else is up on the board. For Red Wings, the deal works if they are not sold on anyone who's up on the board and believe they get the same value with more quantity... Or have an eye on a guy that most likely will still be available later on in the draft. If these criterias are met, for both teams, a deal can be made. Athanasiou is a sweetener at the very best. Fact is, it's that 6 spot that the Islanders might target to get the dips on the guy they want specifically. If they don't have that much of interest then and only then it doesn't make sense for them.

What you don't understand is with Tavares unsigned we can't afford to do as you suggest it's that simple. if Tavares leaves AA does nothing for us. We simply must act as if he is leaving. It is the most prudent course of action. You keep looking at this from a Detroit perspective... If Tavares is gone, having both picks is vital. Because without him it changes our entire focus as an organization. If he were to resign then yes, this could happen but absent that, it shouldn't even be considered.

Think of it this way, if Dylan Larkin were seriously hurt tomorrow God forbid, would that change your draft focus? I'm saying it would

 

[Invictus12]

What you don't understand is with Tavares unsigned we can't afford to do as you suggest it's that simple. if Tavares leaves AA does nothing for us. We simply must act as if he is leaving. It is the most prudent course of action. You keep looking at this from a Detroit perspective... If Tavares is gone, having both picks is vital. Because without him it changes our entire focus as an organization. If he were to resign then yes, this could happen but absent that, it shouldn't even be considered.

Think of it this way, if Dylan Larkin were seriously hurt tomorrow God forbid, would that change your draft focus? I'm saying it would

No not really. If Svechnikov is somehow available when we're up, I absolutely take him over a defenseman even though we don't have a hole on the wings. Things change really fast. Just a few years ago we had 'the best prospect pool' and today we're 'dry'.

And again, if you are trading to move up in a draft, Athanasiou certainly, ad it stands, isn't the deal maker or breaker. No sure why you specifically harping on that piece... Its the pick that you'd be after; only if someone is on the board that you really want. If you say its not worth trading both your 1st to move up, thats understandable, I probably wouldn't do it myself, depending on who's up thete.

 

[72hockey guy]

No not really. If Svechnikov is somehow available when we're up, I absolutely take him over a defenseman even though we don't have a hole on the wings. Things change really fast. Just a few years ago we had 'the best prospect pool' and today we're 'dry'.

And again, if you are trading to move up in a draft, Athanasiou certainly, ad it stands, isn't the deal maker or breaker. No sure why you specifically harping on that piece... Its the pick that you'd be after; only if someone is on the board that you really want. If you say its not worth trading both your 1st to move up, thats understandable, I probably wouldn't do it myself, depending on who's up thete.

except we arent after your pick, you keep insisting we are, but it was a red wing fan who proposed this, im not harping on anything

we didnt ask for your pick, and adding a player we dont need in AA adds nothing for us

its your fanbase that wants this deal, were flat out telling you we dont want it, no matter how many times you say we should, we dont agree

Islander fans job is to see to our own needs. not to help the red wings

What we have said over and over is that we dont want to trade 11 ad 12 for 6, and that adding AA does not change our minds in the slightest. no defender short of Dahlin would entice us to trade 2 picks for one because none of the others are guaranteed to be that much better than one available later.

if you want pick 11 and 12, were saying you need to add something WE NEED to make it worthwhile for us to give up an extra top 12 pick where we can address 2 needs instead of just one. and yes we are aware the player at 6 could be better than a player at 12, we accept that As a possibility, but we also know that 2 players at 11 and 12, could also turn out to be better than number 6, since no pick is a guarantee

in our situation having two picks is better than only having one

remember you came to us, not the other way around