GDT: DET @ CBJ I 7:00pm EST I 4/3/2018

[Redder Winger]

Guys that will be paid well in 5 years:
Larkin
Bertuzzi

Guys that won't:
AA
Mantha

I honestly think Bertuzzi is something special. His hockey IQ is really good. He scraps. He gets pummeled. He takes his licks and still ends up with the puck on his stick/hand/ass/foot. If he gets a little quicker in the off-season...

AA should get his ass kicked for that shot he took off Werenski's head. That's bull****.

Werenski should do it then. AA would probably kick his ass though

 

[SoupGuru]

Werenski should do it then. AA would probably kick his ass though

Well, he couldn't. He was in concussion protocol.

Because some jackass took a really really low percentage shot while a guy was falling head first into the shooting lane in a meaningless game.

I mean:
#1, the shot's not going to get through because it's blocked (by a guy's head)
#2, there's a guy's head in front of my shot and I could end his career
#3, cheese and rice, the goalie's going get it anyway
#4, why the hell am I even trying to score at this point?

 

[Redder Winger]

Well, he couldn't. He was in concussion protocol.

Because some jackass took a really really low percentage shot while a guy was falling head first into the shooting lane in a meaningless game.

I mean:
#1, the shot's not going to get through because it's blocked (by a guy's head)
#2, there's a guy's head in front of my shot and I could end his career
#3, cheese and rice, the goalie's going get it anyway
#4, why the hell am I even trying to score at this point?

1) Because you're in a high scoring area
2) His head was turned and covered by a helmet.
3) Maybe, maybe not
4) WTF?

Shit happens in hockey.
If you're afraid of getting hit with the puck, play in a beer league with guys who have to get up for work the next day.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

AA should get his ass kicked for that shot he took off Werenski's head. That's bull****.

Meh, it is a fast f***ing sport. If you don't want to get hit by a shot, stay out of shooting lanes. In a league with too much shot blocking, the last thing we need is to fret over guys trying to block shots.

 

[BinCookin]

Looks worse in slow motion of course

 

[turkleton85]

i only could see the hightlights. zetterbergs passing is what you love about hockey, those were beauties

 

[turkleton85]

AA and Mantha are the biggest disappointments of the season. Mantha cant win a board battle, nor does he want to race to the puck. Lazy player, plays a very poke and hope kind of game. Ever since his big game against Calgary where people started calling him elite it probably went to his head and he gave up on the season, thinking he can just coast because hes so good.

Athanasiou is more of the same. Lacks intensity just like Mantha. Struggles along the boards as well.

Neither have gotten better this season, you can make a case for them each regressing honestly.

Mantha was stronger on the puck last season - he fumbles it a lot this year, which is frustrating. I agree with you - mantha finishing with close to 50 points might not look bad at first glance, but there could have been more after those first 20 games. i thought he skated better the last 5 or 6 games, with good backchecking etc. But overall, his inconsistent effort is terribly frustrating

 

[Pavels Dog]

AA and Mantha are the biggest disappointments of the season. Mantha cant win a board battle, nor does he want to race to the puck. Lazy player, plays a very poke and hope kind of game. Ever since his big game against Calgary where people started calling him elite it probably went to his head and he gave up on the season, thinking he can just coast because hes so good.

Athanasiou is more of the same. Lacks intensity just like Mantha. Struggles along the boards as well.

Neither have gotten better this season, you can make a case for them each regressing honestly.

Mantha could reach 50 points and 25 goals in his first full season, that is pretty damn good. Nyquist/Tatar have only topped 50 once and both did it under significantly easier circumstances (playing with Dats/Z on playoff teams).

AA is inconsistent as hell which we have known and expected. Still a ~40 point pace is solid with his minutes. Regression? Not really. Needs to adapt though.

Both are slightly disappointing but that’s why no one should complain about picks like Rasmussen, Larkin, Bertuzzi etc. Skill isn’t all that important unless you play hard and have that competitive edge. That said if Mantha gets ~50 on this team watch him when we insert some talent on the backend, get a decent PP and better coaching.

 

[Winger98]

Meh, it is a fast ****ing sport. If you don't want to get hit by a shot, stay out of shooting lanes. In a league with too much shot blocking, the last thing we need is to fret over guys trying to block shots.

Especially if you're just going to flop down like a fish. There has to come a point to where if you can't put yourself into position to block the shot properly, you shouldn't be going down to block it at all. And if you do go for it, what happens is at least partially on you.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Especially if you're just going to flop down like a fish. There has to come a point to where if you can't put yourself into position to block the shot properly, you shouldn't be going down to block it at all. And if you do go for it, what happens is at least partially on you.

Tough part for him was he was actually put in that position by his best friend tripping him down. I mean Larkin was the reason he was down on the ice to get clobbered by AA's shot.

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

 

[jkutswings]

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

I just hope they can find a trade partner. Most teams would ask for a lot more than just AA, if the defenseman is anything above certified pylon status.

 

[Winger98]

Tough part for him was he was actually put in that position by his best friend tripping him down. I mean Larkin was the reason he was down on the ice to get clobbered by AA's shot.

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

I keep watching the replay and I'm not seeing Larkin knocking Werenski down. Larkin has his stick near Werenski's left foot, but I'm not seeing any real leverage being put on it. Meanwhile, watching Werenski go down, it looks like a lousy attempt at a shot block.

I'm fine with AA being moved, provided the return is there. I'm not sure there will be value in a deal, though. If we're dealing him because he's a disinterested flake, whoever we're dealing with has to see it, too. Is there anyone out there desperate enough for offense that they are willing to deal for that while giving up something significant on the back end? At that point, I'd almost rather see us go after De Haan while using AA as a chip to move up in the draft/accumulate more picks.

 

[Heaton]

Both are slightly disappointing but that’s why no one should complain about picks like Rasmussen, Larkin, Bertuzzi etc. Skill isn’t all that important unless you play hard and have that competitive edge.

It goes both ways, you need the skill and you need to work hard. If Rasmussen (for example) works hard but doesn't produce offensively, that doesn't really help us get any better. Hopefully he does both. Now, if Mantha scores 30-40 goals and has defensive lapses, I won't care all that much. Production is the most important thing. Obviously he needs to be held accountable, but so do other players who are expected to (and paid to) produce offensively who don't.

 

[jkutswings]

I keep watching the replay and I'm not seeing Larkin knocking Werenski down. Larkin has his stick near Werenski's left foot, but I'm not seeing any real leverage being put on it. Meanwhile, watching Werenski go down, it looks like a lousy attempt at a shot block.

I'm fine with AA being moved, provided the return is there. I'm not sure there will be value in a deal, though. If we're dealing him because he's a disinterested flake, whoever we're dealing with has to see it, too. Is there anyone out there desperate enough for offense that they are willing to deal for that while giving up something significant on the back end? At that point, I'd almost rather see us go after De Haan while using AA as a chip to move up in the draft/accumulate more picks.

I wonder if there would be any interest from a team with an upcoming RFA defenseman who isn't a lock to stay. Trouba in Winnipeg and Hanifin in Carolina come to mind. It would definitely take more than AA to get either of those guys, but finding the rare scenario of "odd man out" on defense might open the door to real trade talks, even for a sign and trade.

 

[Redder Winger]

i only could see the hightlights. zetterbergs passing is what you love about hockey, those were beauties

It's amazing how much he gets out of so little athleticism.
He's small. He's not fast.
But he's so strong and smart.

 

[Redder Winger]

I wonder if there would be any interest from a team with an upcoming RFA defenseman who isn't a lock to stay. Trouba in Winnipeg and Hanifin in Carolina come to mind. It would definitely take more than AA to get either of those guys, but finding the rare scenario of "odd man out" on defense might open the door to real trade talks, even for a sign and trade.

AA is lazy. Everyone knows it.
Trade him for a 5th.
So the Wings can draft Reilly Webb.

 

[Redder Winger]

Tough part for him was he was actually put in that position by his best friend tripping him down. I mean Larkin was the reason he was down on the ice to get clobbered by AA's shot.

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

So bored of the right way yesterday.

You know who had the worst night, in terms of defense, as the Wings coughed up the lead?
Dylan Larkin.

Detroit leads 4-1
Larkin takes a slashing penalty. PP goal Columbus.

Watch the Milano goal to make it 4-3 in the third.

There's a lot of blame to go around here. Kronwall starts it all with a clearing pass that goes to a BJ.
AA follows two defense into the corner.
He trips. For some reasons, he slides along on his knees instead of getting up. Then he stands still and covers nobody.
Jensen and Larkin then both leave their feet to play the pass leaving nobody to take the shooter, who gets the shot. Since both Larkin and Jensen are on their knees, they can't do anything about the juicy rebound Howard gave up.


On the Panarin goal, Larkin charges straight too aggressively at Panarin for a PK, who simply skates around him, and then between Daley and Ericsson for the goal.

Now look. People can pretend that AA and Mantha are the only guys that make dumb plays. That they're the only guys who get lazy defensively. Who get lazy mentally.
But this year I've seen Zetterberg do it. I've seen Larkin do it. I've seen every Red Wing make lazy plays.

 

[Winger98]

I wonder if there would be any interest from a team with an upcoming RFA defenseman who isn't a lock to stay. Trouba in Winnipeg and Hanifin in Carolina come to mind. It would definitely take more than AA to get either of those guys, but finding the rare scenario of "odd man out" on defense might open the door to real trade talks, even for a sign and trade.

If we can find that sort of perfect situation, we'd have to take advantage of it. But if we're dealing Athanasiou, we are probably looking at a return closer to Sami Vatanen, who is good but he's not Trouba/Hanifin good. If we can pull someone like Vatanen I would still do it, that's production we severely lack in D below the age of 30, but I think it's really unlikely AA is the center piece for a legit top pairing guy we can build around.

 

[jkutswings]

If we can find that sort of perfect situation, we'd have to take advantage of it. But if we're dealing Athanasiou, we are probably looking at a return closer to Sami Vatanen, who is good but he's not Trouba/Hanifin good. If we can pull someone like Vatanen I would still do it, that's production we severely lack in D below the age of 30, but I think it's really unlikely AA is the center piece for a legit top pairing guy we can build around.

I don't disagree. I think it would take something like the pick from Vegas, plus AA, to land one of those guys. Which I don't think Detroit would do. But it's certainly worth exploring, and I'd consider it if the extra pick was one of the 2nd rounders instead, even if it then was for more of a Vatanen type guy.

 

[RedWingzz]

Well, he couldn't. He was in concussion protocol.

Because some jackass took a really really low percentage shot while a guy was falling head first into the shooting lane in a meaningless game.

I mean:
#1, the shot's not going to get through because it's blocked (by a guy's head)
#2, there's a guy's head in front of my shot and I could end his career
#3, cheese and rice, the goalie's going get it anyway
#4, why the hell am I even trying to score at this point?

Why does AA get all the blame and Werenski gets none? Maybe Werenski shouldn't blocks shots like this, putting himself in an extremely vulnerable position.? AA is not at fault at all here in my opinion, unless he was intentionally trying to hit Werenski, which he obviously wasn't. Players put pucks on net all the time, you never know what can happen. Moral of the story is don't block shots head first and you won't get hit in the head by a shot.

Not that it makes any difference, but he wasn't "falling" as you put it, he is attempting to block a shot.

 

[TheMule93]

It's nobodies fault, werenski fell right when AA was shooting. Big deal.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

I think the organization absolutely would love to move one of them, but I don't see a robust market for these two. The issues plaguing these guys today at the NHL level are the same issues that plagued them in juniors. I don't think anyone is seriously expecting them to change their ways at this point and I think that has a serious impact on their trade value.

 

[Hatter of the Beach]

Tough part for him was he was actually put in that position by his best friend tripping him down. I mean Larkin was the reason he was down on the ice to get clobbered by AA's shot.

I think trading one of AA or Mantha for a big return defensively and a message at this point is going to happen. I believe it will be AA that is used to send that message. Even while they are bad you're going to play the right way is probably something that needs to be established up front. This isn't Buffalo or Edmonton where you can do whatever and get the same ice-time. That they don't send that message as often to Mantha who has been better over the course of the season than AA leads me to believe AA will be the guy that is established with.

I don’t think AA will get as much as a return as a lot of us would want, but I would not be surprised at all if we packaged him and Vegas’s 24-30th to move up to the teens.

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

It goes both ways, you need the skill and you need to work hard. If Rasmussen (for example) works hard but doesn't produce offensively, that doesn't really help us get any better. Hopefully he does both. Now, if Mantha scores 30-40 goals and has defensive lapses, I won't care all that much. Production is the most important thing. Obviously he needs to be held accountable, but so do other players who are expected to (and paid to) produce offensively who don't.

Ras (for example) has 12 points in 4 playoff games

 

[Ezekial]

Why does AA get all the blame and Werenski gets none? Maybe Werenski shouldn't blocks shots like this, putting himself in an extremely vulnerable position.? AA is not at fault at all here in my opinion, unless he was intentionally trying to hit Werenski, which he obviously wasn't. Players put pucks on net all the time, you never know what can happen. Moral of the story is don't block shots head first and you won't get hit in the head by a shot.

Not that it makes any difference, but he wasn't "falling" as you put it, he is attempting to block a shot.

His contact with Larkin made him fall awkwardly. I doubt he went into it thinking he'd lead with his head.
Just an odd play. No bad guys.