Boston Bruins Delaware North needs to address the ice issues at TD Garden

[Fenway]

Enough is enough.

It is no secret that the ice at TD Garden is subpar - I have had several NHL officials tell me only Brooklyn is worse. Did the ice contribute to the Carlo injury BUT it is well known that the area near the 'Zamboni' door is suspect.

The bull gang is pleading to get the Zamboni's back but the contract that Charlie signed with Olympia makes that a problem and it is in the hands of DN lawyers in Buffalo. What is documented is Montreal, Toronto and Calgary all tried Olympia and went back to Zamboni.

But the core problem is the ice plant itself. The old Garden for all its warts had good ice unless the season extended into May and had to deal with heat and humidity. The ice plant at the new Garden has been suspect from day one and that can be traced to then Garden president Larry Moulter cutting corners to try to keep the building on budget. Jacobs would later fire Moulter but the damage had been done.

I have been told the only solution to fix the problem is closing down the building for 2 months and totally rebuild the ice plant. Madison Square Garden did this a few years ago and now the ice there is getting high grades. MSG is a good example as like TD Garden the ice plant is above street level. Staples Center in Los Angeles gets high marks for their ice and they have to deal with 2 NBA teams and more concerts than the Bruins do.

@Ladyfan can attest from her vantage point that the ice at TD Garden is not good.

This needs to be addressed.

Click to read more...

 

[dafoomie]

Having wrestling in there 13-14 hours before the puck drop couldn't have helped either. If they can build that tower on the old Garden site, surely they can deal with this.

 

[Ladyfan]

Enough is enough.

It is no secret that the ice at TD Garden is subpar - I have had several NHL officials tell me only Brooklyn is worse. Did the ice contribute to the Carlo injury BUT it is well known that the area near the 'Zamboni' door is suspect.

The bull gang is pleading to get the Zamboni's back but the contract that Charlie signed with Olympia makes that a problem and it is in the hands of DN lawyers in Buffalo. What is documented is Montreal, Toronto and Calgary all tried Olympia and went back to Zamboni.

But the core problem is the ice plant itself. The old Garden for all its warts had good ice unless the season extended into May and had to deal with heat and humidity. The ice plant at the new Garden has been suspect from day one and that can be traced to then Garden president Larry Moulter cutting corners to try to keep the building on budget. Jacobs would later fire Moulter but the damage had been done.

I have been told the only solution to fix the problem is closing down the building for 2 months and totally rebuild the ice plant. Madison Square Garden did this a few years ago and now the ice there is getting high grades. MSG is a good example as like TD Garden the ice plant is above street level. Staples Center in Los Angeles gets high marks for their ice and they have to deal with 2 NBA teams and more concerts than the Bruins do.

@Ladyfan can attest from her vantage point that the ice at TD Garden is not good.

This needs to be addressed.

The ice is terrible and the ice machines they use leave huge puddles on the ice. They need to bring back the Zambonis.

I don't understand why the Garden can't improve the ice. Lord knows they have plenty of $$$. They owe it to the B's to fix the bad ice issue.

 

[GlenFeatherstone]

I read something a few years back about some kind of study on ice surfaces and the worse ones were all buildings that also had the NBA. The ones that had the best ice surfaces were all arenas that primarily hosted NHL games.

 

[Ladyfan]

I read something a few years back about some kind of study on ice surfaces and the worse ones were all buildings that also had the NBA. The ones that had the best ice surfaces were all arenas that primarily hosted NHL games.

I am sure that makes some sense.

I still think the Garden can and should improve. There is NO excuse for the ice to be as bad as it is.

 

[TCDaniels]

Fenway - do you know what kind of refrigeration system the garden uses? I designed a hockey rink for a private school in NH, and we used a system called Ice3 (Ice-Cube)... It's a great system because it's made up of little units that house all the compressors, heat exchangers, etc... They're small self-contained units and you buy as many units as you need (I think the rink we did had 4 or 5... B.C. uses the system and they have 10 units)

The beauty of it is that you can add units in sequence relatively cheaply if you find your system isn't handling the loads

 

[ODAAT]

In this day and age to have any ice surface in the NHL being sub par is inexcusable IMO. I don`t know who has the worst ice and I notice it most this time of year and heading into the playoffs where there appears to be stranger bounces, pucks that don`t track well etc..I watched the Leafs/Jets tilt last night and there were two passes in particular, one from both teams where the initial pass was fired right along the ice then hopped over the recipient`s stick

 

[sooshii]

Great post, Fenway. The unique perspective you bring to HF Bruins cannot be overstated. Thanks.

 

[BruinDust]

I was surprised the Garden ice wasn't among those listed in the most recent player poll for the Top 5 worst ice surfaces.

 

[Smitty93]

You'd think losing two of your top young defensemen to injuries heavily caused by the ice would force some change. You can even sell it as a money thing, as those sorts of injuries prevent you from winning in the playoffs, and thus cause you to lose money.

Personally, I don't see them changing unless the NHL stepped in and fined them, or if the NHLPA sued them for poor working conditions, and I would guess that legally neither the NHL or NHLPA can do either of those, so we're stuck until the Jacobs have a Grinch-like change of heart.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I think that the ice at the Garden should be the best that money can buy. That being said, there is no proof that’s what caused Carlo’s injury. Even the best ice can be gouged during a period and generate a rut.

Sometimes shit just happens.

 

[Bruinaura]

I thought they had actually ordered Zambonis a while back and were waiting for delivery? Or is that what got tied up in the legal stuff? Or was that for Warrior and not TD Garden?

It's a shame. I hope they come to their senses and redo the ice plant. I'm guessing there are no plans for TD Garden to be replaced by another arena anytime soon.

I wonder what the NHL ice guru guy who does the outdoor games thinks about it.

 

[Comfort Eagle]

The only thing I can add is that after skating at warrior with the HF crew and then skating on the Garden ice while "reffing" my son's Pee-Wee game back in December the ice at warrior was far superior. I don't think the Garden ice was bad, but warrior was amazing !

 

[Glove Malfunction]

The only thing I can add is that after skating at warrior with the HF crew and then skating on the Garden ice while "reffing" my son's Pee-Wee game back in December the ice at warrior was far superior. I don't think the Garden ice was bad, but warrior was amazing !

I have never been on the Garden ice, but I can confirm that the ice at Warrior was top notch. We had the last HF pick-up skate there, and the ice was in fantastic shape.

 

[talkinaway]

Saw the Carlo fall on the big screen for the first time just now, and the bad ice explanation seems at least plausible.

It would have been great timing to shut down the Garden last summer, when JJ was already tearing up Causeway. With recent renovations to both loge and balcony concourses, and a new Jumbotron desperately needed, and possible expansion on the north side of the arena...there’s going to be a lot of work done at the Garden over the next few years.

 

[GordonHowe]

Fens,

I suggest you take your complaint to Fluto, KPD or Steve Conroy. A delicate proposition, but they could shine a spotlight on the issue.

Give it some thought.

 

[ballofhate13]

I thought they had actually ordered Zambonis a while back and were waiting for delivery? Or is that what got tied up in the legal stuff? Or was that for Warrior and not TD Garden?

It's a shame. I hope they come to their senses and redo the ice plant. I'm guessing there are no plans for TD Garden to be replaced by another arena anytime soon.

I wonder what the NHL ice guru guy who does the outdoor games thinks about it.

Truly they should ask him. consulting fee is cheaper than replacing players.

 

[Gordoff]

You would think that buying 2 new Zamboni's isn't such a huge cost vs. the damage that seems to be getting done to the players. I'm a business owner and if/when in the past I've bought equipment that wasn't what I expected I put it in storage while I either negotiate or go to court to get it settled. This is so typically what this franchise has been known for. They went cheap on the building of the Garden, cheap with the ice equipment and then just plain dumb when it came to getting those "Olymia" machines. Way back when they bought them there were articles posted that told stories just like the above yet Chaahlee didn't seem to do the research (or have an assistant do it) which should've been done.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

You would think that buying 2 new Zamboni's isn't such a huge cost vs. the damage that seems to be getting done to the players. I'm a business owner and if/when in the past I've bought equipment that wasn't what I expected I put it in storage while I either negotiate or go to court to get it settled. This is so typically what this franchise has been known for. They went cheap on the building of the Garden, cheap with the ice equipment and then just plain dumb when it came to getting those "Olymia" machines. Way back when they bought them there were articles posted that told stories just like the above yet Chaahlee didn't seem to do the research (or have an assistant do it) which should've been done.

we're talking about Ebeneezer Jacobs here. any cost is a huge cost

 

[jgatie]

we're talking about Ebeneezer Jacobs here. any cost is a huge cost

Read the OP. It has nothing to do with costs, it is a contract. More than likely, Olympia has a contract with TD for exclusive rights to the ice resurfacing. If TD can't get out of that contract, then they have to use Olympias no matter how crappy they are.

 

[jgatie]

whoops, double post.

 

[Fenway]

Read the OP. It has nothing to do with costs, it is a contract. More than likely, Olympia has a contract with TD for exclusive rights to the ice resurfacing. If TD can't get out of that contract, then they have to use Olympias no matter how crappy they are.

That is exactly what the problem is.

Olympia has already lost contracts in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Los Angeles as all those rinks have switched back. Calgary is the key one as that is where the NHL ice guru is based,

The whole making of ice is hit or miss - Staples Center in LA has good ice and they host 2 NBA teams but LA doesn't have the humidity that Boston does.

The Bruins were the first NHL team to use a Zamboni and ironically the machine was invented in Los Angeles and they are still based there.

 

[BRUINS since 1995]

That is exactly what the problem is.

Olympia has already lost contracts in Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Los Angeles as all those rinks have switched back. Calgary is the key one as that is where the NHL ice guru is based,

The whole making of ice is hit or miss - Staples Center in LA has good ice and they host 2 NBA teams but LA doesn't have the humidity that Boston does.

The Bruins were the first NHL team to use a Zamboni and ironically the machine was invented in Los Angeles and they are still based there.

Fenway. Isn't there in the TD contract a clause regarding the result obligation? If the machine ain't giving what it was meant for.... why keep it?

 

[OV]

Any puddles on the ice are almost certainly a result of the ice plant not doing its job. That
could be a poor layout of the piping under the cement or inadequate pipe diameter ...poor
pumps for the refrigerant circulation....or any number of other problems. The resurfacing
machines basically scrape up snow...level off high spots and lay down water. Unless the
resurfacing machines are spewing gallons of water periodically while the cleaning is going
on the main problem won't be the machines. The Olympia may not be as good as the
Zamboni...but soft ice is from the ice plant.

 

[Fenway]

Any puddles on the ice are almost certainly a result of the ice plant not doing its job. That
could be a poor layout of the piping under the cement or inadequate pipe diameter ...poor
pumps for the refrigerant circulation....or any number of other problems. The resurfacing
machines basically scrape up snow...level off high spots and lay down water. Unless the
resurfacing machines are spewing gallons of water periodically while the cleaning is going
on the main problem won't be the machines. The Olympia may not be as good as the
Zamboni...but soft ice is from the ice plant.

The ice plant was covered in the original post. Corners were cut as the construction was way over budget back in 1995 ( anyone trying to get to Level 9 knows the nightmare of the elevator ). Bob Ryan described the new Garden as the Chevy Chevette of all the arenas built then. Jacobs fired the person responsible but the damage was done.

I am curious how the Hub on Causeway is going to pan out.