Confirmed with Link: Del Zotto to Anaheim for Luke Schenn and a 2020 7th round pick; Schenn goes to Utica

[Bleach Clean]

This trade is completely inconsequential in both directions, to a degree where it's not even really worth talking about, IMO.

Del Zotto has close to zero value, Schenn has close to zero value, and a 7th has close to zero value.

Why has it been discussed for eleven pages? Are we THAT desperate to get to declare something a win or a loss?

Those are the assessments of the parts in the trade, yeah. Did the trade have to go down like this and for those values? I don't think so. Others agree. That's why this thread gets to 11 pages.

I don't think there's much difference in MDZ, Schenn, or Pouliot. All should be 7th-9th guys on NHL depth charts.

Del Zotto is better than Pouliot and he's played half as many games. It's a problem.

Del Zotto played the second most TOI/GP last year. The most Total TOI for dmen last year. 50 games later, he's in the coaches doghouse playing half as many games as Pouliot, a player that you put on the same level as Del Zotto above. It's a problem.

Dmen like Del Zotto go for better picks every. single. year. It's a problem.

If your GM is constantly flushing value, it's a problem.

If you want to whitewash everything by saying they are all depth dmen, that's your prerogative. I see very real issues in asset value, timing, and usage here. I'm quite fine in pointing them out, and I'm not alone in doing so...

 

[m9]

Those are the assessments of the parts in the trade, yeah. Did the trade have to go down like this and for those values? I don't think so. Others agree. That's why this thread gets to 11 pages.





Del Zotto is better than Pouliot and he's played half as many games. It's a problem.

Del Zotto played the second most TOI/GP last year. The most TOI/GP last year. 50 games later, he's in the coaches doghouse playing half as many games as Pouliot, a player that you put on the same level as Del Zotto above. It's a problem.

Dmen like Del Zotto go for better picks every. single. year. It's a problem.

If your GM is constantly flushing value, it's a problem.

If you want to whitewash everything by saying they are all depth dmen, that's your prerogative. I see very real issues in asset value, timing, and usage here. I'm quite fine in pointing them out, and I'm not alone in doing so...

I like MDZ better than Pouliot as well, but they are still in the same tier of depth defensemen. Maybe MDZ is a #7 & Pouliot is a #8 or #9. Schenn, same as Pouliot. Playing one guy over another is a coaching issue, not an issue with this trade. MDZ is actually playing his correct role as a #7 getting 23 games - the issue is that they don't have a better player in front of him. Pouliot sucking doesn't suddenly make MDZ a better player, though.

And yes, based off past seasons he should be worth more than a future 7th. The additional circumstances here are that there are reports he requested a trade, which added urgency. He is still overpaid with retention, meaning there were some teams likely not able to take him on and the market is smaller. Lastly, you also got a depth guy back who would also be worth a late pick most years.

By getting Schenn back they have also left themselves open to gain additional value by trading him or another RHD before the deadline.

 

[PM]

If you check 'Cap Friendly' the Canucks are so far below the salary-cap ceiling, they could trade Sutter, Gubranson, Edler and Tanev, and potentially retain salary on all of them. Not that it would ever happen.

But if they're going to unload Gagner or Schaller, it's almost a given that they're going to have to retain some salary. That's the serious downside of signing useless UFA's.

Pretty sure you can only retain salary on two players at once. It’s not about the money, it’s about using up our last retention spot for a 7th rounder.

Edit: my bad, thought it was only two retention splots.

 

[PM]

They still have one retention slot this year - Luongo & MDZ are the only two.

Hmmm I thougt it was only 2 but my mistake if it’s 3. Still don’t like using a retention spot for an essentially meaningless pick though.

 

[EpochLink]

I'll dub him Luke "Dontrelle" Schenn.

 

[m9]

Hmmm I thougt it was only 2 but my mistake if it’s 3. Still don’t like using a retention spot for an essentially meaningless pick though.

Better than not using them at all, like last year.

 

[MisfortuneCookie]

My mistake as well. I could have sworn teams only get 2 retention slots, but I see it's three and the Canucks still have one spot remaining. Since MDZ is a UFA it comes off the books in the summer, so they'll still have 2 slots to play around with this free agent period. If this is the most our team-leading TOI defenseman from last year fetches, it really brings into question Green's decision-making...

 

[Melvin]

Garbage return for a garbage player signed to a garbage contract by a garbage gm.

 

[lousy]

Garbage return for a garbage player signed to a garbage contract by a garbage gm.

Thanks for the garbage post.

All this works out in the end, with a roster spot opened up for EP and a low draft pick.

 

[passive voice]

lol whatever on the specifics of the trade and whether we should have waited to move MDZ, but:

Benning bought that 7th for like $5m in cap hit (and cash). Opportunity cost is a thing. He still sucks at his job.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Traded a player the coach wouldn't use anymore for a D that's already cleared and can report straight to Utica where the D has been decimated this year; and picked up a seventh in the process. Yeah, I'm good with this one. Beats the heck out of losing Del Zotto on waivers, which is probably the realistic alternative.

I mean, Green isn't going to play Del Zotto just to pump up his value so Benning can get a fifth instead of a seventh, so, this seems reasonable under the circumstances.

 

[MS]

Do you like it when the team's GM makes bad move after bad move? This move is a book end to a pattern.

Frankly, I'm surprised that some of the most ardent Benning haters aren't more up in arms over this deal. I see that they have accepted deplorable asset management as par for the course and are now reduced to celebrating a little something for nothing. That's how far Benning has lowered expectations here.

This GM cannot be gone soon enough.

Yeah, fair enough. My initial take was pretty generous but based on the small picture and relative expectations. Given that we’d destroyed the value of the asset and given that it was Dim Jim making the trade ... not too bad.

On further reflection it has to be noted that this trade (getting a 7th way in the future but losing a contract slot on a negative-value asset AND retaining salary) is actually worse than had we just placed him on waivers and Anaheim had claimed him. It’s hard to consider that a ‘win’.

Based on his season last year I expected Del Zotto would return a 2019 3rd-4th rounder at the deadline. We mucked that up and it’s one of the offshoots of idiotically retaining (and giving raises to!) two completely incompetent defenders last summer in Gudbranson and Pouliot. And those two trashheaps being welded into the roster and better players being scratched has consequences.

 

[MS]

Traded a player the coach wouldn't use anymore for a D that's already cleared and can report straight to Utica where the D has been decimated this year; and picked up a seventh in the process. Yeah, I'm good with this one. Beats the heck out of losing Del Zotto on waivers, which is probably the realistic alternative.

I mean, Green isn't going to play Del Zotto just to pump up his value so Benning can get a fifth instead of a seventh, so, this seems reasonable under the circumstances.

Explain how this is better than losing Del Zotto on waivers.

A 7th rounder in 2020 is nearly worthless.

Using a salary retention spot has value.
That retained salary has value.
We take on a negative-value asset in Schenn and have to pay his one-way contract.
We lose a roster spot on Schenn.

 

[Vman]

Luke Schenn used to be a good prospect and hyped up dman for the Leafs for the first few years. What happened to him?

 

[Canuck Luck]

Explain how this is better than losing Del Zotto on waivers.

A 7th rounder in 2020 is nearly worthless.

Using a salary retention spot has value.
That retained salary has value.
We take on a negative-value asset in Schenn and have to pay his one-way contract.
We lose a roster spot on Schenn.

lets go through your points
1. we retained what 400k after the pro-ration? how much do you think that has in value in terms of trade? probably similar to a 7th round pick.
2. Saying Schenn is negative value false. How is having a cheap depth d-man negative value? guys like him get traded at the deadline for a 5th. Ex see Joe Morrow/Mike Rielly/Brandon Davidson ETC last year. Not only that Utica is always clamouring for centers and d depth due to injuries to our d + their own injuries. Or would you prefer we play ECHL scrubs with our prospects so they arent given help and put in a position to succeed? Why even sign players for Utica at all or own Utica then. Waste of money no?
3. We dont lose a roster spot. Schenn is in the AHL that has 0 affect on the NHL roster spots and limits. Now if you mean we lose a contract slot well then whoop de doo we have 45 contracts in total whats that 1 extra going to do for this season? Literally complaining about nothing with this last point. We have 5 open slots to sign someone having a 6th isnt going to make or break whether we sign a college free agent before seasons end. Benning isnt going to be like oh cant sign any more free prospects because we only have 4 contract slots not 5 then.

 

[timw33]

Yeah, fair enough. My initial take was pretty generous but based on the small picture and relative expectations. Given that we’d destroyed the value of the asset and given that it was Dim Jim making the trade ... not too bad.

On further reflection it has to be noted that this trade (getting a 7th way in the future but losing a contract slot on a negative-value asset AND retaining salary) is actually worse than had we just placed him on waivers and Anaheim had claimed him. It’s hard to consider that a ‘win’.

Based on his season last year I expected Del Zotto would return a 2019 3rd-4th rounder at the deadline. We mucked that up and it’s one of the offshoots of idiotically retaining (and giving raises to!) two completely incompetent defenders last summer in Gudbranson and Pouliot. And those two trashheaps being welded into the roster and better players being scratched has consequences.

At this point we're giving faint praise to anything that shows a shred of competence. The fact that he didn't give up the pick is a real "hey...good job buddy".

Once you think more about the trade and the broader context, it's just another case of terrible asset management by Benning and Co.

 

[timw33]

2. Saying Schenn is negative value false. How is having a cheap depth d-man negative value? guys like him get traded at the deadline for a 5th. Ex see Joe Morrow/Mike Rielly/Brandon Davidson ETC last year. Not only that Utica is always clamouring for centers and d depth due to injuries to our d + their own injuries.
.

Ok then why wouldn't we just trade MDZ for a 3rd-5th at the deadline when that will be the going rate for depth dmen?

 

[Canuck Luck]

Ok then why wouldn't we just trade MDZ for a 3rd-5th at the deadline when that will be the going rate for depth dmen?

Because if Pettersson is back tomorrow we would have to waive someone? We do again now that we called up Kero but now the answer is we waive Kero. Clearly the team feels Biega > Del Zotto just like the fans so it was either we waive Del Zotto/Biega or Benning has to admit he signed another bad contract by waiving Schaller

 

[timw33]

Because if Pettersson is back tomorrow we would have to waive someone? We do again now that we called up Kero but now the answer is we waive Kero. Not having to waive Biega or Benning have to admit he signed another bad contract by waiving Schaller

Kero doesn't require waivers if he's sent down within 30 days/10 games played.

We can just waive Granlund, Schaller, or Pouliot—completely inconsequential NHL players. Like, we should be waiving Pouliot, playing MDZ and then flipping him for the mid round pick at the deadline.

 

[M2Beezy]

Anahiem aint doing so well either so this is a pretty high 7th, basically a nother 6th round pick. Not bad

 

[timw33]

Anahiem aint doing so well either so this is a pretty high 7th, basically a nother 6th round pick. Not bad

It's a 2020 pick.

 

[timw33]

1. we retained what 400k after the pro-ration? how much do you think that has in value in terms of trade? probably similar to a 7th round pick.

It's not the $$ it's that we now only have one retention slot for the deadline instead of two. We didn't properly capitalize on the value of that slot, especially using it to retain so little $$.

 

[Canucks1096]

My guess if JB waited until the deadline and pretend if we got a 5th round pick. Some users will probably be saying we should of moved him earlier to get a better return.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Explain how this is better than losing Del Zotto on waivers.

A 7th rounder in 2020 is nearly worthless.

Using a salary retention spot has value.
That retained salary has value.
We take on a negative-value asset in Schenn and have to pay his one-way contract.
We lose a roster spot on Schenn.

I didn't consider the contract, I'd have to take a look at that to see how bad it is. And I'm not sure Del Zotto clears waivers, even that nothing goalie we acquired didn't get through and I'm tired of Benning losing his pants at every turn; in this case he didn't imo.

Besides, the Comets blueline is decimated and they can really use Schenn, that's the main consideration here for me. And Schenn can fill in up here as well as Del Zotto can in a pinch.

 

[Canuck Luck]

Kero doesn't require waivers if he's sent down within 30 days/10 games played.

We can just waive Granlund, Schaller, or Pouliot—completely inconsequential NHL players. Like, we should be waiving Pouliot, playing MDZ and then flipping him for the mid round pick at the deadline.

Okay well there you have it we still risk losing someone on waivers if we keep MDZ whereas now we dont have to waive anyone. Not to mention MDZ even with the retention makes much more than the cheap depth d-men that fetched picks last season. Those teams are looking for cheap #7-8-9 dmen for depth for playoffs when injuries hit. Schenn is a cheap depth d-man. Del Zotto is not due to his contract.

Now the point of waiving the 3 you mentioned above. No way Benning goes to the owners saying yea i made a mistake signing this guy for almost 2M while h just forced them to eat Gagner's salary. Aqualini already is on the record saying hes displeased with that. Pouliot/Granlund our coach clearly feels belong on the roster playing so why would they get waived over guys not playing at all?