The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
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DeKeyser
- Thread starter The Zermanator
- Start date
detredWINgs
Registered User
Smith being "redundant" isn't really a factor. No one thinks of Smith as being ANY sort of factor at this point. He's a space filler in the #4/5 role. I'm of the opinion that Smith would look better elsewhere and is better than 90% of people give him credit for on this board but there is no "Smith v Dekeyser" debate. Dekeyser has come to Detroit and fit in like no one else has. I think you'd have to go back to Stuart to find someone who fit in right away like DD did.
On that note, I don't think there's much behind Dekeyser's stats. He's got better offensive smarts than what he's given credit for as he makes smarter passes than most on our roster but I don't think there is any untapped offensive potential. That's not to say I don't think he'll improve whatsoever I just don't think there's any barrier to be broken. I think in favorable conditions he'll put up points in the high 30s but nothing more than that. And if/when that happens, it'll be because he's smart but not because he has vision, if that makes sense.
As for the Kronwall v Dekeyser debate, there is none. I've noticed of late that Kronwall has been in clean up mode more than he has been thinking offense. It's temporal, in my opinion and one of those random stats.
On that note, I don't think there's much behind Dekeyser's stats. He's got better offensive smarts than what he's given credit for as he makes smarter passes than most on our roster but I don't think there is any untapped offensive potential. That's not to say I don't think he'll improve whatsoever I just don't think there's any barrier to be broken. I think in favorable conditions he'll put up points in the high 30s but nothing more than that. And if/when that happens, it'll be because he's smart but not because he has vision, if that makes sense.
As for the Kronwall v Dekeyser debate, there is none. I've noticed of late that Kronwall has been in clean up mode more than he has been thinking offense. It's temporal, in my opinion and one of those random stats.
The Zermanator
In Yzerman We Trust
- Jan 21, 2013
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I was thinking more along the lines of: replace Kindl with Ouellet permanently. That one's easy. And it's not so much 'DeKeyser vs. Smith' as it is 'DeKeyser produces, Smith does not.' I was on board with Smith for a long time but eventually it gets to a point where he has to validate that support and he just hasn't.
So for all the talk around here about needing a RHPMD, who does this RHPMD replace? Usually people assume it's Kindl but the problem with that is that it still leaves no room for Ouellet. Smith's spot tends to be considered as safe, but I'm not so sure it should. At this point, I'm just ready to move on from him. I won't even be mad if he's traded and realizes his potential elsewhere because I don't think it'll ever happen in Detroit.
And I didn't intend to suggest a 'DeKeyser vs. Kronwall' debate. I just thought it was interesting that DeKeyser is essentially keeping up with the guy who is considered to be our only truly offensively productive dman.
DeKeyers has untapped offensive potential. I think he can be a consistent 40-point player a few years down the road. I think having him on the second power play unit gives him good experience despite the lukewarm offense it creates right now.
detredWINgs
Registered User
A consistent 40+ point guy would make him something like the top 10-20 best offensively among defensively. I love Dekeyser but that's absurd. I would love if he could consistently score 30+. Statistically, that still leaves him in great company.
detredWINgs
Registered User
Keeping up for half a season when facing lesser competition and probably (haven't checked the facts) playing with the team leading goal scorers consistently doesn't impress me that much. It's nice and all but if Dekeyser had true offensive instincts, he'd be taking better advantage of his PPTOI, which he is pretty poor at taking advantage of. But with that said, I understand your point. Dekeyser isn't simply a defensive defenseman.
As for Smith, I don't think anyone really considers his spot safe. It's just that Kindl and Lashoff have been worse while looking like they're tapped out in terms of potential. I think most would welcome swapping Smith for pretty much any of the talked about defensive trade targets on this board, even if a rental.
joe89
#5
- Apr 30, 2009
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EVS points for the average dman you largely get by making smart decisions, and playing the right amount of minutes(and teammates obv). DeKeyser makes as many smart decisions as any D on the team, and he plays a lot. Kronwall is not a risktaker anymore, he's defense first aswell.
If you wanna propel into 40 point territory you need to be a good PP player, and Dekeyser has ways to go there. I'd also value some goals over points. Kronwall is having quite an average season offensively so far but is still on pace for 45 points due to the PP. It makes all the difference.
If you wanna propel into 40 point territory you need to be a good PP player, and Dekeyser has ways to go there. I'd also value some goals over points. Kronwall is having quite an average season offensively so far but is still on pace for 45 points due to the PP. It makes all the difference.
I think a lot of people underrate making safe plays and keeping the play in front of you.
It's hard to bring Lidstrom into any conversation without the conversation getting derailed, but I think it's obvious that DeKeyser's biggest role model is Lidstrom. Lidstrom's defensive game was 90% positioning and 10% stick. Plays just die when they go towards DeKeyser.
I think his point production comes from finding the right guy to keep the play alive. I think he sees the ice pretty well and knows where his outlets are and what the safe play is all the time. The safe play can end up being a step away from a goal.
It's hard to bring Lidstrom into any conversation without the conversation getting derailed, but I think it's obvious that DeKeyser's biggest role model is Lidstrom. Lidstrom's defensive game was 90% positioning and 10% stick. Plays just die when they go towards DeKeyser.
I think his point production comes from finding the right guy to keep the play alive. I think he sees the ice pretty well and knows where his outlets are and what the safe play is all the time. The safe play can end up being a step away from a goal.
OK, you know what? I already brought up Lidstrom and I've had a couple of beers...
Lidstrom was a stay-at-home defenseman. He was the last into the zone and the first out of it. It's funny how few people realize that, especially non Wings fans. He wasn't an offensive defenseman.
His vision and brains led to his success in the o-zone. Sure, he had a nice shot and he had Homer in front of the goalie...
Am I saying DeKeyser is anywhere close to Lidstrom? Not at all. No one else is, either.
Lidstrom was a stay-at-home defenseman. He was the last into the zone and the first out of it. It's funny how few people realize that, especially non Wings fans. He wasn't an offensive defenseman.
His vision and brains led to his success in the o-zone. Sure, he had a nice shot and he had Homer in front of the goalie...
Am I saying DeKeyser is anywhere close to Lidstrom? Not at all. No one else is, either.
NORiculous
Registered User
Cyborg Yzerberg
Registered User
I don't know if Dekeyser will be anything more than a 3-4 guy, but that's fine with me. He's already my favorite defenseman on the team, so.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Our defense also will hopefully be more talented than it is in the future as more guys come up. I think after a FA acquisition, trade, or continued development he will probably anchor a middle pair like he is now.
Which is NOT a knock.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Pavels Dog
Registered User
Do you have to ask? Pulkkinen's definitely going to be a top 10 goalscorer, Mrazek a top 10 goalie, Mantha a top 10 player of all time, Larkin a top 10 player named Dylan etc.
Know but I like the direction he is going. He could become a bonafied #1 center in a couple of years though I don't see what that has to do with Deykeyser.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Don't see either as being realistic. Kronwall's not even considered a top 10 defenseman by a lot of folks. Do you see Dekeyser being better than Kronwall? If so, I don't know what to tell you. That's where people start to go really overboard with Dekeyser.
Not impossible per se, but to EXPECT it? Pump the brakes a bit here.
Hammettf2b
oldmanyellsatcloud.jpg
Smith can't and wont do it by himself. He was playing very well when paired with Kronwall. I miss that pairing.
I don't see Pulks making an impact at the NHL level at least for a few years if then. He probably won't even find a spot on this team given the depth. Too early to tell on all of them really. They are just prospects but the development program they're in bodes well for them.
Deykeyser is showing great things already and I expect he will improve greatly. I know it doesn't go with the party line here of Holland's incompetence or the idea that players stop developing the day they hit the NHL but it's just my opinion.
Yes I think when all is said and done he will be better than Kronwall. He is still very young and I would argue he is the 2nd best defenseman we have. Just watch him play.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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I watch every game, whether it's live or after the fact, but you're free to have a different take.
Don't want to spin our wheels too much on this, since I'm sure we wont change each others mind much. I will root for you to be right though
I watch every game, whether it's live or after the fact, but you're free to have a different take.
Don't want to spin our wheels too much on this, since I'm sure we wont change each others mind much. I will root for you to be right though
Admittedly it is just a guess on my part. I am not an NHL scout but he seems to always be in position and always remains poised. I think he will improve. I am rooting for me to be right as well!
