Injury Report: DeKeyser Having MRI aka Corsi? More like Borsi!

[DanZ]

Agree to disagree.

Huh?

You realize there is a salary cap, right? There aren't any teams in the league with three #1 defensemen, and maybe only a couple with more than one. Please be more realistic.

The Hawks just won the Cup with Hjalmarsson as their #3, who is very comparable to DeKeyser (DeKeyser is actually better offensively).

 

[Bench]

You realize there is a salary cap, right?

Are you prepared to prove this statement?

Yeah, I was making a joke. I'm Bench, what's up DanZ.

 

[HockeyinHD]

You are going to pull back Kronwall's IT to save him when the PP is by far his biggest strength? That would be a bad decision.

Enh. Instead of 2:30 on the PK and 2:30 on the PP I'm talking about 1:15 on the PK and 2:00 on the PP.

A lot of offensive defenseman are still able to produce pts as they age, because it comes mostly from PP time and even as you age you can still typically run a PP because there is more time and space.

I agree. That's probably why Kronwall is getting routinely outscored at ES by Dekeyser the past couple years, too.

And no, they're not close offensively. Sorry. You'll probably try and throw some cherry picked stats together, but watch them and it's evident.

Of course.

I mean, it can't be that Kronwall "looks" better to you because you see him in much more beneficially offensive positions, paired with a guy to play defense behind him compared to Dekeyser who got Quincey, Smith and Kindl as primary partners. That's why just relying on the 'eye test' is a fairly quick way to fumble the ball, because you can whinge about Ericsson all you want... dude's been better than all three of those others have.

What Dekeyser's struggled with early on here is getting his shot through. This is, coincidentally, exactly what Kronwall struggled with early on as well. I'd provide you the statistical evidence which supports this in the form of looking at their shooting percentages, but I'll refrain from exposing you to cherry picked stats.

 

[Actual Thought*]

And I don't even think he's that amazing of a shut down defender.

Not trying to derail the hype train here, but I'm not seeing what everybody else is. DeKeyser is a nice, young, middle pairing piece. He's excellent at nothing. He's also bad at nothing. He's got a good head on his shoulders so he should be reliable for many years and he's a guy you keep around if you can work it.

Basically, nothing about DeKeyser screams elite to me.

Both of his NHL coaches described him as elite. Of course they didn't scream it but...coaches rarely scream in interviews.

 

[DanZ]

But come on, I already said DeKeyser is a very good piece to have and you should keep him on your roster. And I know the cost won't be insignificant. That's pretty high praise. But I'm not going to break out the anointing oil, because personally, he hasn't taken that next step in my eyes.

I think you're selling him pretty short considering our lack of an ability to produce any top pairing defensemen recently. He's the best defenseman that we've developed since Kronwall, and we didn't really even develop him all that much. You say he's replaceable like you haven't been watching our defense since Lidstrom and Rafalski left. Where have all these top-4 defensemen been lying around at all these years just waiting to be snatched up? I don't see him as being that replaceable when you consider we just now replaced Rafalski like 6 years later.

 

[Bench]

I think you're selling him pretty short considering our lack of an ability to produce any top pairing defensemen recently. He's the best defenseman that we've developed since Kronwall, and we didn't really even develop him all that much. You say he's replaceable like you haven't been watching our defense since Lidstrom and Rafalski left. Where have all these top-4 defensemen been lying around at all these years just waiting to be snatched up? I don't see him as being that replaceable when you consider we just now replaced Rafalski like 6 years later.

I already explained this. I think he's a big fish in the Wings small pond of defenders. Plenty of other teams have drafted and developed defenders much better than the Wings over that span. That topic has been beat to death around here.

All of that said, I'm in favor of keeping him on the team and building around him. The same way Franzen (or now Nyquist) may not be elite as people want, but dammit, you build around him. It's not an either/or proposition.

I like DeKeyser. I think he's a great piece moving forward. Just because he's not an elite defender doesn't mean I'm down on him. Those are very different things.

 

[Frk It]

I already explained this. I think he's a big fish in the Wings small pond of defenders. Plenty of other teams have drafted and developed defenders much better than the Wings over that span. That topic has been beat to death around here.

All of that said, I'm in favor of keeping him on the team and building around him. The same way Franzen (or now Nyquist) may not be elite as people want, but dammit, you build around him. It's not an either/or proposition.

I like DeKeyser. I think he's a great piece moving forward. Just because he's not an elite defender doesn't mean I'm down on him. Those are very different things.

So much this. Minus the Franzen being a guy you build around part.

 

[Frk It]

Enh. Instead of 2:30 on the PK and 2:30 on the PP I'm talking about 1:15 on the PK and 2:00 on the PP.



I agree. That's probably why Kronwall is getting routinely outscored at ES by Dekeyser the past couple years, too.



Of course.

I mean, it can't be that Kronwall "looks" better to you because you see him in much more beneficially offensive positions, paired with a guy to play defense behind him compared to Dekeyser who got Quincey, Smith and Kindl as primary partners. That's why just relying on the 'eye test' is a fairly quick way to fumble the ball, because you can whinge about Ericsson all you want... dude's been better than all three of those others have.

What Dekeyser's struggled with early on here is getting his shot through. This is, coincidentally, exactly what Kronwall struggled with early on as well. I'd provide you the statistical evidence which supports this in the form of looking at their shooting percentages, but I'll refrain from exposing you to cherry picked stats.

I don't think it's as much he needs to get his shot through, as it's just not very accurate. Hell, he misses the net altogether quite a bit.

Kronwall was billed as an offensive defenseman for as long as I can remember. Dekeyser was never labeled that, though he has improved in that regard. Kronwall always had a dynamic offensive element to his game.

You thought Ericsson was better than Quincey last year? I agree with you he was better than Smith or Kindl.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Huh?

You realize there is a salary cap, right? There aren't any teams in the league with three #1 defensemen, and maybe only a couple with more than one. Please be more realistic.

The Hawks just won the Cup with Hjalmarsson as their #3, who is very comparable to DeKeyser (DeKeyser is actually better offensively).

Hjalmarsson is a significantly better player than DeKeyser today. DK might be marginally better offensively but here the biggest strength in DeKeyser's game is actually lagging pretty far behind and that is the defensive zone.

Hjalmarsson is a great defensive d-man, probably the best #3 in the league... The guy is a shot blocking monster that is never out of position and probably the best back-handed passer in the league in the D zone. His ability to relieve pressure is astounding when you watch the Hawks, as are the countless plays he shuts down before they even develop into dangerous situation. I do hope DeKeyser can get into these kind of comparisons, I actually see Ouellet as more likely in terms of this.

 

[Frk It]

Huh?

You realize there is a salary cap, right? There aren't any teams in the league with three #1 defensemen, and maybe only a couple with more than one. Please be more realistic.

The Hawks just won the Cup with Hjalmarsson as their #3, who is very comparable to DeKeyser (DeKeyser is actually better offensively).

Weber, Jones, and Josi could make a pretty strong case.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Weber, Jones, and Josi could make a pretty strong case.

It could be as soon as this year that Weber is actually hitting third in that arrangement in terms of where I would rank them. Nashville is filthy back there.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

Hjalmarsson is a significantly better player than DeKeyser today. DK might be marginally better offensively but here the biggest strength in DeKeyser's game is actually lagging pretty far behind and that is the defensive zone.

Hjalmarsson is a great defensive d-man, probably the best #3 in the league... The guy is a shot blocking monster that is never out of position and probably the best back-handed passer in the league in the D zone. His ability to relieve pressure is astounding when you watch the Hawks, as are the countless plays he shuts down before they even develop into dangerous situation. I do hope DeKeyser can get into these kind of comparisons, I actually see Ouellet as more likely in terms of this.

If Ouellet even develops into what Dekesyer is right now it'd be a win at this point in time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Hjalmarsson is a significantly better player than DeKeyser today. DK might be marginally better offensively but here the biggest strength in DeKeyser's game is actually lagging pretty far behind and that is the defensive zone.

Hjalmarsson is a great defensive d-man, probably the best #3 in the league... The guy is a shot blocking monster that is never out of position and probably the best back-handed passer in the league in the D zone. His ability to relieve pressure is astounding when you watch the Hawks, as are the countless plays he shuts down before they even develop into dangerous situation. I do hope DeKeyser can get into these kind of comparisons, I actually see Ouellet as more likely in terms of this.

Hjalmarsson is NOT a significantly better player than Dekeyser. A little better defensively and a little worse in terms of puck-moving ability and offense. Plays on a much better team and has won a few cups, that always helps increase a player's value. He's probably the best #3, you're right, but if he was playing for us people would be complaining about his lack of offensive ability (even more so than we are complaining about that when it comes to Danny). That doesn't happen on Chicago because they have that top-pairing with Keith and Seabrook. You think Danny wouldn't look better if he was playing behind those two and was able to focus more on defense?

I find it funny how the goalposts keep moving when it comes to our players. First, Danny isn't good enough offensively. Oh, he's actually better offensively than the best #3 in the league? ....well he's not good enough defensively! Yeah, that's it. He's not a great #3 because of that. Oh, what's that? He's actually better defensively than 90% of #3Ds in the league? ...well, he's not good enough offensively. And so it goes.

Danny puts up enough offense and is good enough defensively to classified as a #2 d-man right now. He's is clearly in the very top tier of #3Ds.

Weber, Jones, and Josi could make a pretty strong case.

Jones isn't a #1 at this point. They're stacked though but you can't look at 1 anomaly team as the bar to shoot towards. It would probably benefit Nashville to trade one of those d-men and acquire some forwards. In fact that's probably what people on this board would want if we had Nashville's team.

 

[DanZ]

Hjalmarsson is a significantly better player than DeKeyser today. DK might be marginally better offensively but here the biggest strength in DeKeyser's game is actually lagging pretty far behind and that is the defensive zone.

Hjalmarsson is a great defensive d-man, probably the best #3 in the league... The guy is a shot blocking monster that is never out of position and probably the best back-handed passer in the league in the D zone. His ability to relieve pressure is astounding when you watch the Hawks, as are the countless plays he shuts down before they even develop into dangerous situation. I do hope DeKeyser can get into these kind of comparisons, I actually see Ouellet as more likely in terms of this.

Lol no, Hjalmarsson and DeKeyser are very comparable. Hjalmarsson is slightly better defensively, DeKeyser is slightly better offensively. Hjalmarsson is better at blocking shots but DeKeyser is better with the stick and has a better outlet pass.

Weber, Jones, and Josi could make a pretty strong case.

They are about the only team that can make an argument.

 

[Invictus12]

Jones isn't a #1 at this point. They're stacked though but you can't look at 1 anomaly team as the bar to shoot towards. It would probably benefit Nashville to trade one of those d-men and acquire some forwards. In fact that's probably what people on this board would want if we had Nashville's team.

They are about the only team that can make an argument.

To add to this, Nashville is also not quite as deep at forward either.

 

[Actual Thought*]

I don't think it's as much he needs to get his shot through, as it's just not very accurate. Hell, he misses the net altogether quite a bit.

Kronwall was billed as an offensive defenseman for as long as I can remember. Dekeyser was never labeled that, though he has improved in that regard. Kronwall always had a dynamic offensive element to his game.

You thought Ericsson was better than Quincey last year? I agree with you he was better than Smith or Kindl.

Dekeyser misses the net on purpose a lot of times. Probably because he grew up watching Lidstrom. Often times there isn't a shooting lane these days so the best play can be to bounce it off the back boards behind the net. His shot isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.

 

[Frk It]

Dekeyser misses the net on purpose a lot of times. Probably because he grew up watching Lidstrom. Often times there isn't a shooting lane these days so the best play can be to bounce it off the back boards behind the net. His shot isn't as bad as you are making it out to be.

Ok, then why has he never scored more than 5 goals in a season at any level of hockey ever?

 

[Invictus12]

Ok, then why has he never scored more than 5 goals in a season at any level of hockey ever?

Goal scoring isn't the only aspect of being good offensively. While I do agree that Dekeysers shot isn't much to boast about, his passing skills and vision on ice seem perfectly intact. In those particular aspects, I think him being on the PP and being a strong contributor offensively isn't out of the question.

 

[Frk It]

Goal scoring isn't the only aspect of being good offensively. While I do agree that Dekeysers shot isn't much to boast about, his passing skills and vision on ice seem perfectly intact. In those particular aspects, I think him being on the PP and being a strong contributor offensively isn't out of the question.

I think he's a pretty good passer. I think he thinks and sees the game very well, and has a really good hockey IQ. He doesn't handle the puck particularly well though, which you notice when we are cycling and trying to set up. Night and day difference between guys like Kronwall and Green, who really thrive at a quick cycle and receiving passes of any speed or direction and then walking the line and distributing.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

DD's biggest problem on the powerplay is he has not shown the vision to QB a powerplay effectively. I think he is very efficient as an ES player because he is able to get out of a jam pretty effectively and can move the puck out of the zone well in a 5v5 situation, but when the breakout changes to gain the zone with possession, he has not been able to thrive.

That's why I wonder how people assume DD will just rack up a bunch of points on the powerplay by virtue of being there. He will get some, but the powerplay unit as a whole will suffer by putting him out there if he doesn't improve in that situation.

 

[Invictus12]

I think he's a pretty good passer. I think he thinks and sees the game very well, and has a really good hockey IQ. He doesn't handle the puck particularly well though, which you notice when we are cycling and trying to set up. Night and day difference between guys like Kronwall and Green, who really thrive at a quick cycle and receiving passes of any speed or direction and then walking the line and distributing.

Definitely agree with the assessment but I also think he has time to learn. He seems to be getting better and better through experience more so than raw ability.

 

[Invictus12]

DD's biggest problem on the powerplay is he has not shown the vision to QB a powerplay effectively. I think he is very efficient as an ES player because he is able to get out of a jam pretty effectively and can move the puck out of the zone well in a 5v5 situation, but when the breakout changes to gain the zone with possession, he has not been able to thrive.

That's why I wonder how people assume DD will just rack up a bunch of points on the powerplay by virtue of being there. He will get some, but the powerplay unit as a whole will suffer by putting him out there if he doesn't improve in that situation.

Interestingly enough, I felt the highlights of Dekeysers usage on the power-play were keeping zone possession alive when opposing teams either tried to clear the puck or one of our players misplayed it. He often was able to recover the puck right at the line even when being pressured and make the pass that kept us from re-setting the power-play zone entrance.

 

[Frk It]

Definitely agree with the assessment but I also think he has time to learn. He seems to be getting better and better through experience more so than raw ability.

He's a good player, time will tell. Even if he doesn't, I still love his game. Such a reliable guy on our back end.

 

[Invictus12]

He's a good player, time will tell. Even if he doesn't, I still love his game. Such a reliable guy on our back end.

LOL Well if at worst he is what he is then that's already good.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Interestingly enough, I felt the highlights of Dekeysers usage on the power-play were keeping zone possession alive when opposing teams either tried to clear the puck or one of our players misplayed it. He often was able to recover the puck right at the line even when being pressured and make the pass that kept us from re-setting the power-play zone entrance.

I can tell you this as a matter of fact, Dekeyser's general possession and corsi numbers aren't great. Which usually illustrates he's not much of an offensive player. Which is fine, obviously. Dekeyser is what he is. And that's a good middle down shut down defenseman.