"Defense wins championships"
- Thread starter Kamiccolo
- Start date
Dempsey
Mark it zero
How about my theory...
To win a Stanley Cup, you must:
1) Have a bonafide #1 center.
2) Your captain should be a center, otherwise a defenseman. Never a winger.
To win a Stanley Cup, you must:
1) Have a bonafide #1 center.
2) Your captain should be a center, otherwise a defenseman. Never a winger.
Rorschach
Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
The Kings played and beat teams as good and better than the Pens. This year's Pens team is the weakest champion since Carolina. The Pens aren't in the same class as the 2014 Hawks.
KevinRedkey
12/18/23 and beyond!
- Jan 22, 2010
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Defense wins championships has always been BS in the NHL. The is no specific formula to winning a cup, except for needing guys to step up at opportune times.
I think it's safe to say that good goaltending wins championships. Pens are no where without MAF and Murray.
Johnnybegood13
Registered User
- Jul 11, 2003
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- 982
The best coaches in history(Bowman coined the phrase I think) always said you build a championship team from the net out. Even recent cup teams like Chicago with Kane and Toews leading the way needed Crawford to go god mode at times to win. Flashy high scoring players are needed for the regular season and the fans but it means a whole lot less come playoff time.
In order of importance to me:
1) Goalie
2) Team Defense
3) #1 center that can win 55+% of important draws(end zones)
In order of importance to me:
1) Goalie
2) Team Defense
3) #1 center that can win 55+% of important draws(end zones)
Good goaltending, yes. But I don't think you need a superstar top goalie to win. Not a having atop #1 centre? Not so sure you can win without one.
You need everyone to do their job effectively to win a championship and that's all there is to it. Offense needs to score, defense needs to limit chances, and your goalie has to make saves. If all 3 are doing their jobs effectively you will more than likely win.
Go Wings
Registered User
They hit 5 posts and the refs disallowed another goal and Murray played well.
If you watche it definitely wasnt good D.
Gurglesons
Registered User
That'd be relevant if the same roster minus their # 1 defenseman and Ben Lovejoy didn't just go back to back in the Stanley Cup Finals.
McGuires Corndog
Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Here's just another thought, team defense is more important than how good your team is on paper and you don't need to have an elite defense on paper to be a good to great defensive team.
Sidney the Kidney
One last time
- Jun 29, 2009
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I'll quote my own post from the previous page that addresses this.
Over the past two playoffs, this defense has the second best GAA in the playoffs. Sure, Murray (and Fleury) played really well, but so did the goalies of the other teams with similar GAA. Some of that success is because of the defense.
I don't know why people keep ignoring these stats and just carrying on with their narrative. At the very least, explain how a bad defense can routinely end up near the top of the team GAA leaders in the playoffs every year.
Mc5RingsAndABeer
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Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2003
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How many teams would be able to win the cup without their #1 dman? Not the kings or hawks. The fact the pens repeated this year is a testament to how good the team is, it shouldn't be seen as a negative.
oobga
Tier 2 Fan
- Aug 1, 2003
- 23,415
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Gotta agree with this. It's not just the Dmen themselves that need to play D, it's also commitment from the forwards, and the Pens have been insanely well coached these last 2 playoffs. And of course, credit to the smarts and effort level of their forwards to follow the game plan so perfectly. The actual quality of the D is far less important (still need to be good obviously, and be able to make quick plays, but don't need to be top tier quality D) when all of your forwards are so committed to supporting the D and each other in their own zone.
IMO, the Pens still did show that defense wins, just not in the obvious way you would think.
GeorgesLaRAWK
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2009
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"Defense wins championships" isn't true for any sport anymore.
People saying it applies to the NFL haven't watched the NFL in at least 15 years.
People saying it applies to the NFL haven't watched the NFL in at least 15 years.
Almost every year a new theory comes out. "Big and heavy teams for the playoffs". "Speed at all costs." "Not enough leadership and players that play with heart and willing to stop pucks with their faces."
People are just fixating too much on the actual personnel playing D in Pittsburgh, and then say: "That's not a good defence". I think that was a pretty good defence given the system they play, and they had Murray. Pittsburgh is a quick transition speed team. That's what their defence is about. Put out a slow defender that is know for being a good defensive defencemen, and suddenly Pittsburgh's system isn't as cohesive.
Remember when Niemi won in Chicago? How 'shocking' it was that Chicago got rid of their #1 goalie that just won the cup? The storyline changed to "you don't need a high-priced elite goalie to win a championship. You should get a cheaper option and spend that money on defence instead, as they can help you get goals while they defend".
What happened to that theory? Analysts and hockey insiders were arguing the merits of that theory, and people were saying that this was the smart thing to do in a cap system. How come you see goalies being paid a lot? Because that theory worked for a stacked Blackhawks team. A goalie can save you a lot of money and hide an incredible amount of holes in your roster. If there was ever a change, that change went back full-circle.
Teams are NOT going to look at Pittsburgh now and say: "Look at their lack of defence! I am also going to follow that model and spend money on offence only this year." Not every team has a line-up like Pittsburgh, not every team has as many committed players to playing within the confines of the system, and not every team has a great system that the players execute so well. Murray hides a lot too - he is a great goalie.
People are just fixating too much on the actual personnel playing D in Pittsburgh, and then say: "That's not a good defence". I think that was a pretty good defence given the system they play, and they had Murray. Pittsburgh is a quick transition speed team. That's what their defence is about. Put out a slow defender that is know for being a good defensive defencemen, and suddenly Pittsburgh's system isn't as cohesive.
Remember when Niemi won in Chicago? How 'shocking' it was that Chicago got rid of their #1 goalie that just won the cup? The storyline changed to "you don't need a high-priced elite goalie to win a championship. You should get a cheaper option and spend that money on defence instead, as they can help you get goals while they defend".
What happened to that theory? Analysts and hockey insiders were arguing the merits of that theory, and people were saying that this was the smart thing to do in a cap system. How come you see goalies being paid a lot? Because that theory worked for a stacked Blackhawks team. A goalie can save you a lot of money and hide an incredible amount of holes in your roster. If there was ever a change, that change went back full-circle.
Teams are NOT going to look at Pittsburgh now and say: "Look at their lack of defence! I am also going to follow that model and spend money on offence only this year." Not every team has a line-up like Pittsburgh, not every team has as many committed players to playing within the confines of the system, and not every team has a great system that the players execute so well. Murray hides a lot too - he is a great goalie.
GordieHowsUrBreath
Nostalgia... STOP DWELLING ON THE PAST
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they would beat the overrated kings in 5
that 2014 team couldn't even make the playoffs the next year, even carolina would beat them
yeah the NFL has become unwatchable since Goodell ruined it. College Football still has some purity at least.
BlueBaron
Registered User
People who promote this "you do not need great defensemen to win the cup" and then look to this years Champions are forgetting that Nashville was crippled by injuries up the middle which balanced out the Pens D problems.
The Pens play a great team game but they would be hard pressed to win the Cup again with that blueline IMO.
The Pens play a great team game but they would be hard pressed to win the Cup again with that blueline IMO.
hagelin1381
Registered User
BlueBaron
Registered User
It can. Chris Osgood was a pretty average goalie on a great team. That said, you throw Price on Chicago last year and maybe they win the west. All Cup winners have degrees of offense, defense and goaltending. I'd say winning with crappy D would be the hardest and least likely way to win.
