GDT: Defending Stanley Cup Champs St. Louis Blues @ Avs| Starting 2020 on the Right...Note|

[Honeycutt]

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, but I can't agree with the bolded at all. He is currently sitting at +2 for the year with an expected +/- of +1.4, which suggests that he is doing a decent job limiting chances against and isn't just getting bailed out by our goaltending. His defensive points share is positive and his possession numbers are incredibly good. Finally he has 5 takeaways and just 1 giveaway.

We are talking about a small sample size and he definitely has room for improvement defensively. But he has been playing pretty decent defensively through his 10 games and I absolutely wouldn't say he has been a liability. However, even if you say he has been a defensive liability and has put up these stats by excelling offensively, then his offensive play has been enough to offset his defensive play.

He is playing very sheltered minutes, the coaching staff routinely keeps him out of defensive situations because they do not trust him yet, Chief has stated this. He is a young player who is not good defensively yet, it's not a surprise or a knock on him it's just how 20 kids play in men's league, unless they are exceptional..

 

[Brian39]

He is playing very sheltered minutes, the coaching staff routinely keeps him out of defensive situations because they do not trust him yet, Chief has stated this. He is a young player who is not good defensively yet, it's not a surprise or a knock on him it's just how 20 kids play in men's league, unless they are exceptional..

Like I said, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment and I don't have a problem with him being scratched tonight. But I don't think it is possible to shelter a liability effectively enough to account for an expected +/- of +1.4 in just 10 games as well as CF% and FF% over 57 and CF% rel and FF% rel over 5. For comparison, Fabbri was getting more sheltered than Kyrou both by TOI and deployment. He was a -4 through 9 games with an expected +/- of -1.3.

I agree that Kyrou isn't a "good" defensive player by NHL standards, but there is a huge gap between that and a defensive liability.

Sanford is a legitimately good defensive player by NHL standards and is absolutely ahead of Kyrou defensively. I agree that this is very likely why he was swapped in for Kyrou tonight, but that can be true without characterizing Kyrou as a liability.

 

[Stealth JD]

That's a head scratcher, especially given that Kyrou is by far the fastest skater on the team and Colorado is one of the fastest teams in the league. Just seems silly.

You don't need speed to beat speed. You just need to capitalize on their mistakes and limit your own, so letting Kyrou watch this one and dressing some experience in a big game isn't a bad thing.

 

[BlueDream]

You don't need speed to beat speed. You just need capitalize on their mistakes and limit your own, so letting Kyrou watch this one and dressing some experience in a big game isn't a bad thing.

Yeah, the Blues counter Colorado’s speed by being heavy on the forecheck and smothering them. Not a big surprise to see Sanford in there ahead of Kyrou for that reason. Blues are going with their strength against Colorado’s strength instead of fighting fire with fire. We aren’t faster than them. But when we play our game, they can’t seem to beat it.

I’ve liked Kyrou though and hope he isn’t scratched for long.

 

[Note Worthy]

Should be a good one. LGB.

 

[Blueston]

Like I said, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment and I don't have a problem with him being scratched tonight. But I don't think it is possible to shelter a liability effectively enough to account for an expected +/- of +1.4 in just 10 games as well as CF% and FF% over 57 and CF% rel and FF% rel over 5. For comparison, Fabbri was getting more sheltered than Kyrou both by TOI and deployment. He was a -4 through 9 games with an expected +/- of -1.3.

I agree that Kyrou isn't a "good" defensive player by NHL standards, but there is a huge gap between that and a defensive liability.

Sanford is a legitimately good defensive player by NHL standards and is absolutely ahead of Kyrou defensively. I agree that this is very likely why he was swapped in for Kyrou tonight, but that can be true without characterizing Kyrou as a liability.

That shows how bad Fabbri was!!!

 

[Zizzle]

I would have sat DLR over Kryou

 

[Brian39]

Yeah, the Blues counter Colorado’s speed by being heavy on the forecheck and smothering them. Not a big surprise to see Sanford in there ahead of Kyrou for that reason. Blues are going with their strength against Colorado’s strength instead of fighting fire with fire. We aren’t faster than them. But when we play our game, they can’t seem to beat it.

I’ve liked Kyrou though and hope he isn’t scratched for long.

Good points and this being a road game makes it that much harder to get the defensive matchups we want.

 

[Honeycutt]

Like I said, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment and I don't have a problem with him being scratched tonight. But I don't think it is possible to shelter a liability effectively enough to account for an expected +/- of +1.4 in just 10 games as well as CF% and FF% over 57 and CF% rel and FF% rel over 5. For comparison, Fabbri was getting more sheltered than Kyrou both by TOI and deployment. He was a -4 through 9 games with an expected +/- of -1.3.

I agree that Kyrou isn't a "good" defensive player by NHL standards, but there is a huge gap between that and a defensive liability.

Sanford is a legitimately good defensive player by NHL standards and is absolutely ahead of Kyrou defensively. I agree that this is very likely why he was swapped in for Kyrou tonight, but that can be true without characterizing Kyrou as a liability.

If you are not good defensively you are a liability. He should get better, but as of now it is what it is.

 

[Brian39]

If you are not good defensively you are a liability. He should get better, but as of now it is what it is.

That's a brutal take. So are you saying 60% or more of the league is a liability?

 

[Bluesin7]

Alright gentlemen, heading into enemy territory at the Pepsi center... Avs fans were brutal to my boss who was a Preds fan when they got whooped..

So I'm hoping tonight gets rowdy

 

[BlueDream]

Alright gentlemen, heading into enemy territory at the Pepsi center... Avs fans were brutal to my boss who was a Preds fan when they got whooped..

So I'm hoping tonight gets rowdy

Sounds like you should buy Avs fans a beer. Anyone that is mean to Preds fans deserves that.

 

[Brian39]

Alright gentlemen, heading into enemy territory at the Pepsi center... Avs fans were brutal to my boss who was a Preds fan when they got whooped..

So I'm hoping tonight gets rowdy

There are always a good chunk of Blues fans in the Pepsi Center for Avs/Blues and it is usually a good spirited type of rowdy instead of a "fights in the stands" rowdy. I unfortunately can't be there tonight, but I'll be there on 1/18.

Please don't be part of the group of Blues fans that shouts "Blues" at the end of the national anthem like we do at the Enterprise Center. It sounds real bad on the road and a good chunk of people don't make the connection that you are saying Blues rather than booing. It is also not our home rink, so it doesn't make a ton of sense. Some Avs fans mistaking a few Blues fans for booing is the only time I have seen an actual fight in the stands at the Pepsi Center.

Also, get the loaded nachos that have the chili, sour cream, etc. Hands down my favorite stadium food.

 

[Bluesin7]

There are always a good chunk of Blues fans in the Pepsi Center for Avs/Blues and it is usually a good spirited type of rowdy instead of a "fights in the stands" rowdy. I unfortunately can't be there tonight, but I'll be there on 1/18.

Please don't be part of the group of Blues fans that shouts "Blues" at the end of the national anthem like we do at the Enterprise Center. It sounds real bad on the road and a good chunk of people don't make the connection that you are saying Blues rather than booing. It is also not our home rink, so it doesn't make a ton of sense. Some Avs fans mistaking a few Blues fans for booing is the only time I have seen an actual fight in the stands at the Pepsi Center.

Also, get the loaded nachos that have the chili, sour cream, etc. Hands down my favorite stadium food.

I'm not that tone deaf to do that lol. But I've been to Pepsi a few times for nuggets games, and I just mean I want some good back and forth chirps is what I expect

 

[Blueston]

Like I said, I don't disagree with your overall sentiment and I don't have a problem with him being scratched tonight. But I don't think it is possible to shelter a liability effectively enough to account for an expected +/- of +1.4 in just 10 games as well as CF% and FF% over 57 and CF% rel and FF% rel over 5. For comparison, Fabbri was getting more sheltered than Kyrou both by TOI and deployment. He was a -4 through 9 games with an expected +/- of -1.3.

I agree that Kyrou isn't a "good" defensive player by NHL standards, but there is a huge gap between that and a defensive liability.

Sanford is a legitimately good defensive player by NHL standards and is absolutely ahead of Kyrou defensively. I agree that this is very likely why he was swapped in for Kyrou tonight, but that can be true without characterizing Kyrou as a liability.

I think 2 things at play here:

1. Sanford has sat out for a couple weeks and he always seems to respond to benching with strong game
2. They like to sit young players when game starts to slip so they don't become complacent (note I missed NYE game so don't @ me that he was great)

I expect Kyrou gets back in fairly soon.

 

[StLewis11]

I would have sat DLR over Kryou

Actually, I'm thinking perhaps it should've been Kyrou over Steen.

 

[Honeycutt]

That's a brutal take. So are you saying 60% or more of the league is a liability?

Defensively yes. The reason the blues won last year was because they had no one who was a liability defensively.

Now some players make up for their defensive liability by scoring more or contributing in other ways like playing physically.

If you look at winning rosters they all have 12 nhl caliber defensively responsible forwards, kyrou is not and so he is not an everyday player on a contending team.

The only proof I need of this is Chief's comments and his utilization of a player, stats can always be skewed to show what ever people want, like saying kyrou is not a defensive liability.

 

[Honeycutt]

Actually, I'm thinking perhaps it should've been Kyrou over Steen.

Kyrou in a checking role is laughable.
. Maybe we should scratch binnington and let Kyrou play goal.

 

[SIU LAW]

As others have said, in a key matchup against the Avs, the Blues want jam, size and defensive play. (Theoretically) Sanford provides that in greater quantities over Kyrou.

Not a controversy or an issue in my mind.

Against a team with a slow group of d-men, Kyrou would be the advantage.

 

[KingBran]

Read my mind.

 

[Brian39]

Defensively yes. The reason the blues won last year was because they had no one who was a liability defensively.

Now some players make up for their defensive liability by scoring more or contributing in other ways like playing physically.

If you look at winning rosters they all have 12 nhl caliber defensively responsible forwards, kyrou is not and so he is not an everyday player on a contending team.

The only proof I need of this is Chief's comments and his utilization of a player, stats can always be skewed to show what ever people want, like saying kyrou is not a defensive liability.

Noted. Your definition of defensive liability is drastically different than the way the term is generally used. That probably clears up a lot of our disagreements about players in general. Swapping "liability" with "isn't well above average defensively" changes the context of a lot of your posts a ton.

With that said, I vehemently disagree that Tarasenko, Blais, Maroon, Bozak and Perron are all well above average defensively by NHL standards. We absolutely did not and do not have an entire roster of players in the top third or so of defensive ability in the NHL.

 

[Meatball]

How does one kill an avalanche? It’s not like you can just shoot it or anything.

While we're at it, how do you kill Blues?

 

[BlueOil]

catching this one live

first live game of the season, hope the blues can start 2020 with a victory

 

[Honeycutt]

Noted. Your definition of defensive liability is drastically different than the way the term is generally used. That probably clears up a lot of our disagreements about players in general. Swapping "liability" with "isn't well above average defensively" changes the context of a lot of your posts a ton.

With that said, I vehemently disagree that Tarasenko, Blais, Maroon, Bozak and Perron are all well above average defensively by NHL standards. We absolutely did not and do not have an entire roster of players in the top third or so of defensive ability in the NHL.

Those players are all at least average defensively so they are not a liability.

Kyrou is well well well below average defensively does not score consistently, does not hit, does not kill penalties, and cant provide net front presence, does not control the puck and does not win faceoffs..

 

[tkenney65]

Those players are all at least average defensively so they are not a liability.

Kyrou is well well well below average defensively does not score consistently, does not hit, does not kill penalties, and cant provide net front presence, does not control the puck and does not win faceoffs..

Honeycutt - This forum might well explode after your comments on Kyrou.......