Lindgren
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2005
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Decision Time Coming for Erik Gudbranson
- Thread starter LastWordArmy
- Start date
jeromemorrow
Registered User
Offer $3.25 to $3.5 per for 4 years. Take it or leave it. Let him hold out. He's a RFA
If a team overpays for him, we take the picks. And/or use the picks to trade back to the offering team.
^ Problem solved.
What's going to happen is... Jim Benning and Linden appearing to solve a problem by saying he's a foundational piece and giving him a fat contract (ala Brandon Sutter contract - not to mention the full NMC this year in Sutter's contract) and then wonder 2-3 years down the road, why we're so tight-capped. LOL
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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i think they will trade hutton to make room on the left side then sign a veteran in the offseason to pair with gudbranson. i don't like this solution at all but i think it is realistically what they will do.
in a perfect world you trade gudbranson , since he does not pair up well with any of our left side dmen, and it seems like he is toxic to some pairings. but with his poor start and injury that will not happen because his value is at a low point and he is an rfa.
otoh, hutton is signed longtem, expansion ineligible and can be swapped out for an expansion ineligible forward. he's also a more useful contributing piece for a contender than a young forward might be.
in a perfect world you trade gudbranson , since he does not pair up well with any of our left side dmen, and it seems like he is toxic to some pairings. but with his poor start and injury that will not happen because his value is at a low point and he is an rfa.
otoh, hutton is signed longtem, expansion ineligible and can be swapped out for an expansion ineligible forward. he's also a more useful contributing piece for a contender than a young forward might be.
I in the Eye
Drop a ball it falls
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krutovsdonut
eeyore
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GPNuck
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Still hate the original trade but like the player. Unfortunately with his poor play and injuries, signing a deal makes no sense for either side. Qualify him and see how things go next year. If he plays well, sign him long-term. If he doesn't, trade him at the 2018 deadline as guys like him will always have value at that time.
Blueangel1891
Registered User
He has to be traded. The contract that Benning will give him will mortgage our future completely
This seems like the ideal scenario. You can realistically never have too many bodies around, and this isn't a contender that needs every penny to field their best team next year. Free agents aren't turning this ship around, so cap shouldn't matter too much for 1 or 2 years unless you're trying to make space for a deal where you can take on a poor contract for assets from a strapped team. There's promise on the blueline right now, but competition is probably the best for getting the most out of them, provided spots aren't being handed out without merit.
There problem is this seems unlikely that Benning would do this deal, or that Willie wouldn't put him in the lineup every night regardless of how he plays. I think everyone who is desperate for a trade is more scared of Benning than they are thinking it'sthe best asset management.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
PetterssonSimp
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The only thing to do if keeping him is the only option Benning gives is the Mason Raymond style apply for arbitration and get his salary decreased based on his lack of offensive output and missing half the season.
Otherwise you take the first pair of draft picks higher than a 4th for him. He's not a good fit to the make up of this team, was a terrible partner for the specific player we acquired him to play with and we already have an overpaid 3rd pairing defenceman who garners all the criticism already.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
I wouldn't offer him that contract, but would be interested in seeing if another team will sign him to an offer sheet. Honestly, a team doing this and giving the Canucks a 1st and 3rd round pick is probably the best case scenario here.
God I hope its a trade, but we all know that won't happen. Even if by some miracle this management group doesn't double down on their mistake and instead hands him another 1 year deal (perhaps through arbitration), he will be a UFA in 2018.
Players can be sensitive sometimes. If they see a team balk at committing to them long term they won't show the same loyalty come free agency time. We're really stuck with bad options across the board. Its either sign him to another 1 year deal and likely lose him as a UFA, sign him to a massively inflated long term contract (most likely scenario), or trade him away for pennies on the dollar, knowing full well only a handful of teams will want to use a protected spot for him in the expansion draft.
Player for player this wasn't necessarily a horrible trade by this management group. But when considering all the contract and expansion draft implications, it gets ugly quick.
Players can be sensitive sometimes. If they see a team balk at committing to them long term they won't show the same loyalty come free agency time. We're really stuck with bad options across the board. Its either sign him to another 1 year deal and likely lose him as a UFA, sign him to a massively inflated long term contract (most likely scenario), or trade him away for pennies on the dollar, knowing full well only a handful of teams will want to use a protected spot for him in the expansion draft.
Player for player this wasn't necessarily a horrible trade by this management group. But when considering all the contract and expansion draft implications, it gets ugly quick.
jeromemorrow
Registered User
Yes, I have. He's slow AF and about 1 to 2 steps slower to the play than anyone else.
Sbisa has outplayed him this year. No doubt about it. BUT judging a player for 30 games is not fair to any player.
But I also saw that he was an instrumental part of the Panthers team that made an improbable playoff series win in the 1st round of..... (SCRATCH that...)
He's only had 11 games played in the playoffs 7 in '11-'12... and 4 in '15-'16. I'm assuming he got injured of some kind in both playoff years. I guess it comes with the territory of the way he plays as a stay-at-home clear-the-net defensive dman.
His injury woes are also a concern... if you lock the team up with a player that is often injured, you'll be relying on the youth prospects (or lack thereof - maybe Brisebois next year in limited showings?) and really just pushing up the ELC contracts that you have.
Still.... we need to keep him for 1 to 3 years more at least. No point trading him for pennies on the dollar.
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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great post. there are periods in a team's development cycle where the salary cap does not matter.
Why? This isn't a good team, free agents aren't worth it at this stage of development, and re-signings shouldn't be an issue for bringing everyone back. What else are they going to use it on that's worth taking any deal now as opposed to trying to get his value back up after surgery?
krutovsdonut
eeyore
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because you can leverage salary cap room in trades by retaining or taking a cap dump.
but i still agree with you. at certain times it does not matter. the canucks are not a tank team so they do not have room to take on a cap dump.
I mean it always helps to have room to make moves and take on cap to increase assets back in a trade for sure, and in general you shouldn't be setting precedent with overpaying players. But realistically if your options are trading a guy for cents on the dollar who has played only 1/3 of a season for you, apparently while injured, or re-signing him for slightly more than you'd like, for only 1-2 years, when your team isn't in a cap crunch, so you can better assess his play and/or increase him value, an extra million cap hit is largely meaningless. We're not the Hawks.
hellstick
Registered User
Ideally he's traded. But that won't happen in this regime. My big fear however is that Gudbranson gets a big fat contract to keep him around for years at a high cap hit. What they should do is give him a one year deal at most. He's an RFA, he needs to prove it or shut it. I think we have two more years of control with him, so may as well use it. If he holds out, no harm to this team.
The large pepperoni pizza baton will be passed from Sbisa to Gudbranson.....it is the Canucks mantra to have least one overpaid guy on the blueline.
Jimbo coughed up an '014 first rounder in McCann; and hollowed out the entire 2016 draft by dealing a high second-rounder and a fourth for this guy....no way he's gong to admit defeat and flog him at the bottom of the market now.
All you can do is pray that the wrist injury affected him more than was believed.....otherwise they dealt one of their top prospects and two picks for an overpaid depth d-man. Is this a rebuild on the fly?....nope it's a rebuild by the seat of your pants.
Jimbo coughed up an '014 first rounder in McCann; and hollowed out the entire 2016 draft by dealing a high second-rounder and a fourth for this guy....no way he's gong to admit defeat and flog him at the bottom of the market now.
All you can do is pray that the wrist injury affected him more than was believed.....otherwise they dealt one of their top prospects and two picks for an overpaid depth d-man. Is this a rebuild on the fly?....nope it's a rebuild by the seat of your pants.
Black Noise
Flavourtown
Salary Cap matter, it's that same stupid thinking that has us stuck with Eriksson for 5 more years.
If Gudbranson is signed for around $4M for 5 years, which wouldn't surprise me, the Canucks will have Gudbranson, Sutter and Eriksson taking up $14.375M in 2020-21.
Do people not think cap space in 2020-21 matters? Is that not when this team is supposed to be good?
Absolutely garbage to think cap space doesn't matter. Carolina and Arizona are good examples a rebuilding teams taking advantage of cap space.
Also the Canucks aren't in a great cap situation going into next season, signing Gudbranson for any amount of years is gonna be bad.
If Gudbranson is signed for around $4M for 5 years, which wouldn't surprise me, the Canucks will have Gudbranson, Sutter and Eriksson taking up $14.375M in 2020-21.
Do people not think cap space in 2020-21 matters? Is that not when this team is supposed to be good?
Absolutely garbage to think cap space doesn't matter. Carolina and Arizona are good examples a rebuilding teams taking advantage of cap space.
Also the Canucks aren't in a great cap situation going into next season, signing Gudbranson for any amount of years is gonna be bad.
krutovsdonut
eeyore
- Sep 25, 2016
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yep. but we are talking about trading an injured player with no set return date who was playing badly when he was injured. and it is the tdl in an expansion year, so this is not a real discussion anyway. ken holland and scotty bowman doing a deal with mike milbury couldn't get value for gudbranson right now or in the future until he's played a few games again (suitably showcased).
it's just an opportunity to vent. in the minds of a lot of folks here, we would be the hawks if we'd only listened to them. but the milk is spilt.
