Post-Game Talk: DD da GOAT: Habs win 2-1 OT

[HabsDieHard*]

Did Plekanec play out of his natural position? Plekanec has more pro wing experience than DD and putting him at wing wouldn't give good results. Keep in mind when DD was C for a whole year like last year:

DD FirstA per 60: 0.84
Plekanec FirstA per 60: 0.38

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...type=individual&sort=ifassists60&sortdir=DESC

He lead the team regulars by a wide margin.

It's not really surprising at all tha tDesharnais' assist totals were so much highre considering how little Plekanec played wtih the teams' best offensive winger, as well as the role Plekanec played in.

This year, as Galchenyuk has emerged as more of a goal scorer, we see that Plekanec is more than capable of producing at a solid level in terms of primary assists at 5 on 5.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

yea right, face it, you can't stand to hear about Pac having his best season with DD. Don't tell me what to do, if you don't like then feel free to ignore it. I'm not a DD fan but some posters like yourself are the ones acting like crybabies that you have to jump all over anything DD related because it doesn't fit you agenda. Why don't you try growing up? I stated a fact and was called dishonest, that should show you that there is a clear agenda going on here because some just can't stand to hear anything positive about DD.

What a bunch of babies, oh no DD was Pac's center when he scored the most goals of his career. That's a fact, nothing more. Deal with it.

No one is disputing that it's a "fact" so why you keep insisting on acting like people are is beyond me.

What we are disputing, is the relevance of that "fact".

Funny watching you call other people cry babies and then looking at all of your posts in response to people pointing out how irrelevant and pointless this "fact" you keep citing is.

 

[montreal]

Pretty sure it's troll baiting, though (especially how you've presented it and carried yourself through the discussion), and that you're supposed to be above that.

so it's ok to call someone dishonest for stating a fact? And i'm not supposed to take offense to that?

I'm a newbie here so I'm not going to step on anyones' toes but it's nice to see a long time member call out the moderator for his bush league actions in this thread.

bush league? all that for stating a fact, what a baby.

No one is disputing that it's a "fact" so why you keep insisting on acting like people are is beyond me.

What we are disputing, is the relevance of that "fact".

Funny watching you call other people cry babies and then looking at all of your posts in response to people pointing out how irrelevant and pointless this "fact" you keep citing is.

because I was called dishonest for stating a fact.

 

[Hoople]

By the way, that .64 primary assists per 60 minutes played figure comes in at 105th in the league for forwards who have played 500 minutes this season.

So, it's "fantastic" that he significantly outproduces the 3rd line center of this team.

And it's "fantastic" that he has a .02 higher rate than Plekanec as well.

But much like pretty well any other statistic to support Desharnais, it actually doesn't do that at all.

Pacioretty is 13th in goals per 60 minutes. His 1.31 rate is twice as high as Desharnais' primary assists per 60 minutes figure.

Last year, Pacioretty was 5th, at 1.4 goals per 60 minutes. Desharnais was 45th.

If Desharnais is an intregal part of Paciorettys' success why does his primary assist per 60 ratio fall so behind Paciorettys' goals per 60 ratio?

If you take off the "Those Habs" vs the "These Habs' glasses ( still have not seen the Habs play against each other in a regular season game), you will see most rational people stating that the Habs still need two Top 6 wings. Definitely a RW and if Chucky is moved back to C, then a LW also.

In the meantime, the Habs are forced to play certain players in certain positions. And its a bonus for fans that the Habs are doing quite well despite our "needs".

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I think montreal is being a bit defensive because you can feel the mob coming in full force. DD with Max is the least of our concerns. Max broke out offensively with DD and while Max will surely do better with a Thornton, Backstrom, etc... it's the least of our worries.

Max produces regardless of who he is with. Given that, it makes much more sense to leave more talent for other lines if it's not necessary for the first.

Not saying keep the first line intact forever but keep in mind Pacioretty was playing with DD and Weise. When Pacioretty had Galchenyuk as his C, he also had Gallagher all coupled with higher frequency of starts in the offensive zone.

If you can do more with less. i.e. Making Pacioretty produce while freeing up our best center(Plekanec) by all means...

Still, I like Plekanec-Pacioretty as a duo but I think if we acquire a solid RWer that first line would be better. Weise can't cut it in that type of usage.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

so it's ok to call someone dishonest for stating a fact? And i'm not supposed to take offense to that?



bush league? all that for stating a fact, what a baby.



because I was called dishonest for stating a fact.

Dishonest, misleading, pointless, irrelevant, meaningless....whichever describer you'd like to have a temper tantrum about people using doesn't make your "fact" any more relevant to the discussion.

It's clear that you're being purposely obtuse on this subject.

And it's really amusing watching you try to pretend otherwise.

"Deal with it".

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

so it's ok to call someone dishonest for stating a fact? And i'm not supposed to take offense to that?

If it means carrying yourself like you have through the discussion, then no. "Fact." - "Deal with it." - "Fact." - "Don't blame me for the truth." - "Fact." - "Come on babies, you're still not dealing with it here." - etc.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

It's not really surprising at all tha tDesharnais' assist totals were so much highre considering how little Plekanec played wtih the teams' best offensive winger, as well as the role Plekanec played in.

This year, as Galchenyuk has emerged as more of a goal scorer, we see that Plekanec is more than capable of producing at a solid level in terms of primary assists at 5 on 5.

It's not a shot at all but you conveniently removed my Gallagher comparison. Why? Because it doesn't fit your argument? THAT my friend is being 'dishonest' is it not?

Anyway, I agree with Plekanec's usage being an issue but keep in mind Galchenyuk played with Eller the majority of last season and the stats show little increase to no increase for Eller.

The only reason Galchenyuk has 'emerged' as a goal scorer is because he's playing with a better center.

Either way, fact remains, DD was ahead by a large margin. Plekanec will always play a defensive role, or a two-way one because if you aren't using his two-way prowess you're not using half of his skillset! As a result, DD got better linemates for sure, but he produced this First Assist ratio nonsense didn't he?

 

[montreal]

Dishonest, misleading, pointless, irrelevant, meaningless....whichever describer you'd like to have a temper tantrum about people using doesn't make your "fact" any more relevant to the discussion.

It's clear that you're being purposely obtuse on this subject.

And it's really amusing watching you try to pretend otherwise.

"Deal with it".

How is a fact dishonest? It makes no sense to me at all. Facts are facts, dishonest is when you change the facts. Misleading? How did I mislead when I stated a fact? pointless? So you think it doesn't matter then Pac scored the most goals with DD at center, did DD just stand and watch Pac score all those goals? Did he have no part in Pac having his best season? irrelevant? perhaps it is but to call someone dishonest shows a clear agenda against the player.

I do find it amusing that some posters get so upset over DD and anything posted about him. Although it's really says more about the posters imo. So yea, deal with it.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I'm a newbie here so I'm not going to step on anyones' toes but it's nice to see a long time member call out the moderator for his bush league actions in this thread.

Really? You do the exact opposite though.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

How is a fact dishonest? It makes no sense to me at all. Facts are facts, dishonest is when you change the facts. Misleading? How did I mislead when I stated a fact? pointless? So you think it doesn't matter then Pac scored the most goals with DD at center, did DD just stand and watch Pac score all those goals? Did he have no part in Pac having his best season? irrelevant? perhaps it is but to call someone dishonest shows a clear agenda against the player.

I do find it amusing that some posters get so upset over DD and anything posted about him. Although it's really says more about the posters imo. So yea, deal with it.

Watching this temper tantrum as it's happening is really quite enjoyable.

Your argument is dishonest because when touting the "fact" that Pacioretty has had his best seasons with Dehsanrais you ignore that he has only ever really played full time seasons with Desharnais as his primary center.

Now just to be clear, I know that you're trolling here.

I know that you're being purposely obtuse to try to continue acting like your argument has relevance.

I know this.

We all do.

But I just find it so amusing to state the so obvious reason why what you're doing is trolling, because watching you back pedal and continually cry about being called "dishonest" is just too much fun.

Yes, your statement about Pacioretty having his best season with Desharnais is a fact.

And yes it's dishonest to use it as an argument to support them playing together.

And you know why it's dishonest.

So ya, deal with it.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

It's not a shot at all but you conveniently removed my Gallagher comparison. Why? Because it doesn't fit your argument? THAT my friend is being 'dishonest' is it not?

Anyway, I agree with Plekanec's usage being an issue but keep in mind Galchenyuk played with Eller the majority of last season and the stats show little increase to no increase for Eller.

The only reason Galchenyuk has 'emerged' as a goal scorer is because he's playing with a better center.

Either way, fact remains, DD was ahead by a large margin. Plekanec will always play a defensive role, or a two-way one because if you aren't using his two-way prowess you're not using half of his skillset! As a result, DD got better linemates for sure, but he produced this First Assist ratio nonsense didn't he?

I didn't conveniently or inconveniently ignore anything.

Gallagher isn't really the discussion at hand here.

And I disagree completely about the only reason Galchenyuk emerging as more of a goal scorer is his playing with a better center.

From day 1 this year we saw a different Galchenyuk.

If you want to chalk up all of his success this year because he's been fortunate to play with Plekanec, good on ya.

I'm going to give him a whole lot of credit for it, because it's clear that he realized last Summre there was room for an expanded role for him on the team, and he went out and worked his ass off to be deserving of that expanded role.

 

[montreal]

Watching this temper tantrum as it's happening is really quite enjoyable.

Your argument is dishonest because when touting the "fact" that Pacioretty has had his best seasons with Dehsanrais you ignore that he has only ever really played full time seasons with Desharnais as his primary center.

Now just to be clear, I know that you're trolling here.

I know that you're being purposely obtuse to try to continue acting like your argument has relevance.

I know this.

We all do.

But I just find it so amusing to state the so obvious reason why what you're doing is trolling, because watching you back pedal and continually cry about being called "dishonest" is just too much fun.

Yes, your statement about Pacioretty having his best season with Desharnais is a fact.

And yes it's dishonest to use it as an argument to support them playing together.

And you know why it's dishonest.

Facts are never dishonest. I don't care what you find amusing, I don't need to back pedal since it was nothing more then a fact. It's not trolling when you state a fact.

You like the other poster are assuming, you think you know but at the end of the day a fact is a fact and nothing more.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

I didn't conveniently or inconveniently ignore anything.

Gallagher isn't really the discussion at hand here.

And I disagree completely about the only reason Galchenyuk emerging as more of a goal scorer is his playing with a better center.

From day 1 this year we saw a different Galchenyuk.

If you want to chalk up all of his success this year because he's been fortunate to play with Plekanec, good on ya.

I'm going to give him a whole lot of credit for it, because it's clear that he realized last Summre there was room for an expanded role for him on the team, and he went out and worked his ass off to be deserving of that expanded role.

This is a general team thread, not a DD thread.

Essentially, you can't disprove how useless such a metric is so you refuse to address it.

As for Galchenyuk, I don't disagree he's had natural progression. When he plays with Gallagher and any other C he makes more points than playing with Eller and any other winger. Eller dragged him down. He works better with Plekanec/DD than Eller.

Just to be clear. We're talking about DD. We add in Plekanec, no problem. I add Gallagher, ignore. You add Galchenyuk, no problem. I go back to Gallagher, you ignore.

Anyway, that says everything doesn't it? Won't bother replying, the above illustrates your agenda.

 

[Megustaelhockey]

Give it a rest with the personal attacks, or you'll be subject to additional moderator action. This thread is closed.