Not sure that I like it.
I'm with you. I don't think he's worth that today. Hopefully he'll continue to develop his way into it.
Confirmed with Link: David Savard signed to 5-year extension ($4.25 AAV)
- Thread starter spintheblackcircle
- Start date
I'm with you. I don't think he's worth that today. Hopefully he'll continue to develop his way into it.
jackets4life
Registered User
I loved the season Savard had last year, agree with some that he was our best (and obviously healthiest) defenseman. I think this is a fair deal, ceteris paribus. Guy has to continue his progression for me to be sold.
Have to remember that this was a guy playing so miserably a couple seasons back he was at the end of his rope with exGMSH and his management group. Honestly, I think he has turned the page and has the drive to be that top pairing NHL defenseman that JK is banking on him being. Will be exciting to see what kind of compaign he turns in.
Have to remember that this was a guy playing so miserably a couple seasons back he was at the end of his rope with exGMSH and his management group. Honestly, I think he has turned the page and has the drive to be that top pairing NHL defenseman that JK is banking on him being. Will be exciting to see what kind of compaign he turns in.
He's only paid like a 3/4, so meh whatever. I'll stomach it. Having said that, if doesn't improve much more /puke. I'm going to have to think back a long time for a deal I liked less. I'm just glad we signed it now instead of after another year in which Richards plays him entirely too much. Could have been much worse.
I'll just have to deal with Whiplash I guess. Hopefully he makes this contract look good on the back end.
I'll just have to deal with Whiplash I guess. Hopefully he makes this contract look good on the back end.
jackets4life
Registered User
Ok fair...but think of the unit he was expected to anchor that first half of the season. Definition of the word brutal.
The team had nothing to do with his individual screw ups. No free pass for injuries.
This reminds me of Methot's last CBJ contract. I didn't think he was worth it at the time, but it worked out nicely.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Rats, you beat me to it.
I like the signing, I think it makes good sense for the Jackets because Savard is going to be firmly entrenched as the most skilled right handed defenseman on the team for the foreseeable future. He'll get power-play and penalty kill time, and continue to be fair enough at even strength. He won't ever be a top pairing guy (as most of you have alluded to), so the second pairing dollars make sense (not cents).
And, he gets a long-term deal, which, as he alluded to in his own press release, it something he would have only hoped for a couple of years ago. I like the signing for everyone involved.
hardkorejackets
Registered User
It's kind of amazing to think how much he has grown in the last 3 years. From being an embarrassing injury call up that had to be removed from entire games due to his flub ups in 2013 to being viewed as a Top 4 D-man worth a 5 year 4.25 Million AAV extension in 2015. The extension kind of caught me by surprise, but I'm OK with it.
Like it was mentioned earlier in the summer-If he went to arbitration after this year with his amount of points and ice time, he was going to get paid. Kind of surprised to see the Jackets commit to 5 years worth of Savard, but it does cover some UFA years. Like JK said, need to see continued development and not regression. If he continues to improve, I would think this can be a good deal considering this is his UFA years.
However, it is interesting the amount of long term contracts the current management group has given out in the last year- I imagine one of Jack Johnson or Fedor Tyutin won't be finishing their current contracts in Jacket's uniform.
Like it was mentioned earlier in the summer-If he went to arbitration after this year with his amount of points and ice time, he was going to get paid. Kind of surprised to see the Jackets commit to 5 years worth of Savard, but it does cover some UFA years. Like JK said, need to see continued development and not regression. If he continues to improve, I would think this can be a good deal considering this is his UFA years.
However, it is interesting the amount of long term contracts the current management group has given out in the last year- I imagine one of Jack Johnson or Fedor Tyutin won't be finishing their current contracts in Jacket's uniform.
Could either of you explain what you dislike about his game? Or maybe, what you think others see in him that you don't? I really don't get what's not to like about his game.
To me he's the Wisniewski replacement. Both style of play and role he'll play on the team going forward. Better and cheaper. While I think overall he'll continue to "develop" or improve since he's only had 2 seasons in the NHL, I think just by more minutes played both ES and more importantly his PP minutes going up substantially will increase his points BIG TIME, the same way it was with Wiz. If that's the way people are gonna "rate" defenseman I can see people praising Kekalainen on this deal by January while a Murray-Savard tandem tears through the Eastern Conference. All while the masses go crazy while a "2nd pairing" Jack Johnson paired up with a washed up Tyutin leads the league in +/-.
Some things we seem to agree completely on. His points will most certainly go up around 10 points. If he plays 70 or so games. Think, 2 points a month increase. I would like to see him be a little more trigger happy like Wiz and I will admit he could use some work on his positioning out front of the net dealing with guys going for rebounds and just reading guys getting open. But I think people are really underrating just how good his passing and shooting is right now, last year, and how good he is defensively with his stick and physically he is in the corners, and really just how smart he really is all over the ice.
You do say his yr last year "earned him that much", if you mean you're ok with it, that his numbers fit the cap hit then I agree. But there's nothing, added with the fact his ES and PP time will both go up, that should make you think there wont be "continued improvement" both in his actual game and on the stat sheet. Still young, only 2 years in the league, improved team, more PP time and Ryan Murray are all things that Savard has going for him going forward.
All the Johnson and Savard haters I'm sure will just accidentally glance over this piece of info.
Your 1st problem is you make a comment about being a "small market" team while also making a comment about not being able to "afford" players. There's a cap. We are spending near the very top of that cap. The only(?) reason people or you could have a issue with the number of years or dollars is because of being close to the cap down the road. So IMO your "idea" to diminish the player in an attempt to give a reason other than him being a good player as the reason he got the contract or the reason he IS a core player just doesn't make sense. Chewbacca style.
You can root for Olli Maata and the Pens. Come back when our window opens and we have a "good" d corps. Murray is probably our best overall d man. Savard and Johnson play a little bit different but are a close 2-3 behind him. I take these 3 as a 1-2-3 over MANY MANY teams in the NHL. You throw Tyutin in as a top-4 and the number doesn't go down very much.
As the PK numbers above show along with even "just" 10 goals and 35 points, he is "worth" the contract right now, last year, I would argue even in 13/14 if given credit he deserved for his defensive game along with a role on the PP.
This should all be highlighted. I personally just see no reason to be worried at all about ANY sort of regression.
How many defenseman score 10+ goals a year(32) or 35+ points(39)? Savard's 11 goals put him 1 goal behind #11 ranked Carlson. How about TIO per game? 35th out of all d men. These numbers along with the amount of PK time its shown he PLAYS pretty much prove he IS worth the money. I mean there's 30 teams in the league. He's ranked as clearly a top pairing guy in nearly every category you can think of.
And don't give me anything about his skating. If anything that is the 1 thing(speed/overall fitness/strength/whatever) that he improved dramatically that then positively affected every other aspect of his game. He's not Murray/Johnson but he's no slouch ala Wiz. His skating has improved DRAMATICALLY since the beginning of 13/14.
I meant taking his place salary wise and being a guy who can do a little of everyting in the top 4.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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- 531
I've seen several folks comment in here that he's a top 4 d-man. That's fine but I don't think he's any where near a top pairing d-man.
So if you phrase it differently and say we signed a bottom 4 d-man to 5 years, 4.25M per would it still be a good deal?
So if you phrase it differently and say we signed a bottom 4 d-man to 5 years, 4.25M per would it still be a good deal?
Well, there is a huge difference, IMO, between a 3/4 dman and a 5/6/7 dman. Also, I don't know how you can look at his play or stats and lump him in with guys who are 5/6/7 dmen.
What is a bottom 4 d-man when you used top 4 already? There are only 6 d-men. It would be too much for a 5/6. 7th is just out of the question and stupid to contemplate with that contract.
He's paid like a 3/4 (not top 4). So second pairing. I'd rather we use him as a 5/6 long term but that ship sailed with how many minutes (role) we played him.
Top 4 refers to a 1/2/3/4 d-man.
Bottom 4 refers to 3/4/5/6 d-man.
The top 4 part seems to say he's viewed as a top pairing guy and at worst a 2nd pairing guy.
I'm not sure on an average NHL d-corps if that is fair.
He may be more of a 3/4/5/6. hence bottom 4.
Granted on the CBJ he will likely be a 2nd pairing d-man, but top 4 seems to be saying 2nd pairing is his floor and he will soon be a top pairing d-man.
That's fair but refer to him as a 2nd pairing guy not as top 4.
For a 2nd pairing guy - are you comfortable with a 5 year contract at $4.25M per year?
I know what it means, but you can't overlap like that in this conversation. For salary they are pretty much paid based on pairing. In rarer cases you can talk about #1's (elite, franchise - aka Subban, Keith, etc).
You were way too broad and you were redundant.
I'm getting kind of confused reading your posts. He's paid like a 3/4 guy but he's getting top pairing ice time.
I have no idea why you wouldn't think his salary/term was fine for a 3/4.
CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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Well, we're going to need him to be a #1, we have $50m tied up in 10 players in the next couple years, and that will increase once Joey hits his lottery and if Murray becomes the god the FO is expecting him to be. We could end up with some serious cap troubles soon
"Top 4" is lazy terminology. The distinction between top pair and second pair is very important.
As for whether $4.25 is appropriate for second pair, absolutely, yes, if it includes several UFA years. Take a look at what second pair d-men have been signing for if you don't believe me.
I'm excited for Savard's development, but like a lot of folks I'm not 100% sold on him as one of our top d-men. But if you want to move him for some reason, say a year down the road if you wanted to build around Goloubef and Spurgeon as our RHD or some other scenario, then Savard's deal should be very tradeable. Lots of teams want a goal scoring hitting machine, even if the rest of his game isn't great.
As for whether $4.25 is appropriate for second pair, absolutely, yes, if it includes several UFA years. Take a look at what second pair d-men have been signing for if you don't believe me.
I'm excited for Savard's development, but like a lot of folks I'm not 100% sold on him as one of our top d-men. But if you want to move him for some reason, say a year down the road if you wanted to build around Goloubef and Spurgeon as our RHD or some other scenario, then Savard's deal should be very tradeable. Lots of teams want a goal scoring hitting machine, even if the rest of his game isn't great.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Fun factoid: Jared Spurgeon is the Sore Loser's favorite hockey player in the entire world. Acquiring him for our defense would make me giddier than a southern man at a barbecue competition.
That's all for this post.
All true. But obviously, there's always the risk his play could flounder with added pressure... but if he keeps on trucking, then Jarmo would've had to pay a lot more than 4.25M for his services. It's a fair deal at the end of the day.
Disclaimer-With two kids under 4, I don't watch half as many games as I used to and I definitely don't watch the games as closely, but his skating is exactly my main concern.
I've always wondered if he pours cement in his skates prior to the games. Maybe this has changed, but I just haven't seen it.
For the most part, I love what Jarmo and JD have done with this organization from top to bottom, but our defense concerns me greatly. I think it's good enough to get us into the playoffs, but not Cup worthy like our Offense.
Murray- Will he ever be healthy? History suggests no.
Johnson- very inconsistent in my opinion.
Tyutin- Seems to have lost a step or two.
Savard- Seems like a bottom pairing (on a good team) guy to me.
Prout, Connauton, Goloubef, etc.- I can live with those guys on the bottom pair, but I don't expect much out of them.
Right now we have one guy with top pair talent, but can't stay healthy. I'd like our D a lot better if we had a legit top pair and then everyone else could move down accordingly. If that's the case, do we want to be paying Savard $4.25/year for another 5 years? Especially when a ton of guys need new contracts and we already have so many locked up to big contracts.
Again, others (including Jarmo) see Savard as a legit second pairing D-man. I'm just not convinced. Hopefully I'm wrong.
