David Desharnais - Part VI - Why???!!!! Edition

[417]

So it's more productive to let the Dman get the puck when you're clearly closer to it in the first place, before he springs a streaking winger and they score a goal?

Not what I said, or implied at all...but what's the point in involving yourself in a physical confrontation you can't win. Desharnais has to use his smarts in order to have success in the NHL and even then, it's always going to be a struggle for him to engage physically with bigger players. That doesn't mean he can't produce points...

What he should of done was be in better position in the first place or be ready to apply the right kind of pressure when Maata did get the puck.

Again, i'm not defending the guy...I've had enough of him, but let's be fair in our criticism.

 

[Rapala]

Two completely different players...Gallagher plays that way because it actually makes him effective and truthfully, he'd probably be even more effective if he was more judicious about how much energy he expends out on a shift

Desharnais isn't and ever will be as feisty s Gallagher is. It's pretty pointless to expect him to be.

There are a lot of knocks we can give Desharnais, not engaging players 6 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier, isn't one of them.

This is one of the biggest issues with DD He needs to avoid contact like the plague.
Unfortunately for him we have a left winger on the same line in the same boat.
This is not a hard duo to shut down ES when push comes to shove.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Not what I said, or implied at all...but what's the point in involving yourself in a physical confrontation you can't win. Desharnais has to use his smarts in order to have success in the NHL and even then, it's always going to be a struggle for him to engage physically with bigger players. That doesn't mean he can't produce points...

What he should of done was be in better position in the first place or be ready to apply the right kind of pressure when Maata did get the puck.

Again, i'm not defending the guy...I've had enough of him, but let's be fair in our criticism.

What he should have done is what every ****ing NHL player does and protect the puck with his god damn body and take a ****ing hit. Jesus man. No one gets off with that ****. That was Sergei Kostitsyn changing on a two on one level ****.

He gave up on a play. He gave up on a puck in the offensive zone. To avoid contact. Then made zero effort to do anything about it. He spun away and was a ghost. Like his production

 

[417]

This is one of the biggest issues with DD He needs to avoid contact like the plague.
Unfortunately for him we have a left winger on the same line in the same boat.
This is not a hard duo to shut down ES when push comes to shove.

There's nothing wrong with avoiding contact, you ever watch Steven Stamkos play? (not comparing him to anyone on the Habs btw) he doesn't exactly seek out contact like he's Dustin Brown or David Backes

Not every player is supposed to go out there and bang bodies all game

So I don't think that's the issue with Desharnais personally...I just think he's extremely limited as a player, he's a good playmaker, but almost exclusively looks for Pacioretty when he's on the ice as a default, he never threatens to shoot and doesn't use the guile that most small players have in order to retrieve pucks

But honestly, the BIGGEST issue with Desharnais (no pun intended) is actually the coaching staff use of him.

 

[417]

What he should have done is what every ****ing NHL player does and protect the puck with his god damn body and take a ****ing hit. Jesus man. No one gets off with that ****. That was Sergei Kostitsyn changing on a two on one level ****.

He gave up on a play. He gave up on a puck in the offensive zone. To avoid contact. Then made zero effort to do anything about it. He spun away and was a ghost. Like his production

lol settle down WTK...

But i'm not sure EVERY single player does this...PK Subban blatantly avoids getting hit every time he goes back to retrieve the puck, I've seen him do Olympic-worthy pirouettes to get out of the way of an oncoming forechecker. It's self-preservation, I get it

You can't, especially as a smaller player, engage in EVERY SINGLE physical confrontation

I know as fans we like to think it should be that way, but in reality, if you watch, it's not like that for most.

 

[WeThreeKings]

lol settle down WTK...

But i'm not sure EVERY single player does this...PK Subban blatantly avoids getting hit every time he goes back to retrieve the puck, I've seen him do Olympic-worthy pirouettes to get out of the way of an oncoming forechecker. It's self-preservation, I get it

You can't, especially as a smaller player, engage in EVERY SINGLE physical confrontation

I know as fans we like to think it should be that way, but in reality, if you watch, it's not like that for most.

He doesn't leave the puck for the other player.. He turns and takes the contact in a manageable way and retains possession. DD literally said. Have the puck.. I'll get out of here.

 

[417]

He doesn't leave the puck for the other player.. He turns and takes the contact in a manageable way and retains possession. DD literally said. Have the puck.. I'll get out of here.

LOL...ok, i'm pretty sure I know exactly what play you're talking about. I saw it differently, so I guess i'd have to look at it again.

But if so, you're right..there's a way in avoiding physical confrontations to still retrieve the puck or be in position to strip it

But failing to engage on any level whatsoever, not sure anyone else on the team could get away with that

 

[WeThreeKings]

LOL...ok, i'm pretty sure I know exactly what play you're talking about. I saw it differently, so I guess i'd have to look at it again.

But if so, you're right..there's a way in avoiding physical confrontations to still retrieve the puck or be in position to strip it

But failing to engage on any level whatsoever, not sure anyone else on the team could get away with that

Exactly.. You can't just give up completely.. And then you can see on the goal against he's hiding on the boards at the blue line..

The rest of the team was on the opposite side of the ice too.. Of course, that's the swarm system at its finest.

 

[Rapala]

Exactly.. You can't just give up completely.. And then you can see on the goal against he's hiding on the boards at the blue line..

The rest of the team was on the opposite side of the ice too.. Of course, that's the swarm system at its finest.

That was the finest play all evening I kept listening for the Pied Piper's music.
I'm not sure 417 understood me when I said DD needs to avoid contact. (away from the puck)
The first incident was pathetic I seem to recall you mentioned it immediately in the GDT?
I responded with something about it being his Kurt Browning or Elvis Stojko move.

 

[WeThreeKings]

That was the finest play all evening I kept listening for the Pied Piper's music.
I'm not sure 417 understood me when I said DD needs to avoid contact. (away from the puck)
The first incident was pathetic I seem to recall you mentioned it immediately in the GDT?
I respoded something about it being his Kurt Browning or Elvis Stojko move.

I mentioned it later on.. Wasn't live posting during the game.

 

[Rapala]

I mentioned it later on.. Wasn't live posting during the game.

Makes sense I could have caught your post live but you would never have seen a reply in a GDT.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Whether DD gave up on a play or not doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter if he's to blame for our most recent loss (he isn't) either.

What matters is that he is not effective in the role he's in and won't be effective in any other role we give him. We have better players who would be more productive if given more offensive opportunities and this guy is taking up icetime that should go to better players.

The idea that we score by committee is a misnomer. It suggests that this commitee is all being given the same opportunities to score and we've got a balanced attack. This couldn't be further from the truth. ONE guy is getting the opportunities and the others are left with harder ice and worse linemates. That would be fine if the player being sheltered was actually productive, but he's not. There's no reason for us to have an exploitation line right now unless it's to develop a young phenom (who we don't even have at center right now.) There's no way this team should have issues scoring goals or have the dreadful PP numbers it does. But we've run our offense inside out.

We've seen all we need to see here on DD. It's time to cut him loose.

 

[japhi]

We've seen all we need to see here on DD. It's time to cut him loose.

Can you qualify what that means? If he is not even NHL quality, like you have said in this thread, then he has no value. So we waive him and send him to the minors, or trade him for a late round pick.

So explain to me how- in a league where very few trades happen - we add a 2nd line centre or a first line winger and which assets you are willing to give up to get that player?

I would love to see MB upgrade at centre but I don't see any trades happening that don't involved shaking up the team. Look what the Ducks gave up to get Kesler...Bonino, Vey, Sbisa, 1st and 2nd all for an banged up 32 YO 55 point centre.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Can you qualify what that means? If he is not even NHL quality, like you have said in this thread, then he has no value. So we waive him and send him to the minors, or trade him for a late round pick.

So explain to me how- in a league where very few trades happen - we add a 2nd line centre or a first line winger and which assets you are willing to give up to get that player?

We don't need a 2nd line center or 1st line winger to replace him. You replace him in the aggregate. Split the exploitation and PP minutes between better centers. If you can't get a good winger, Bournival can handle 3rd line wing duties when he comes back. Move Galchenyuk to center and use him Pleks and Eller there. Split the offensive minutes and PP time between them. They are better players who will be getting better minutes. Your offense will improve.

I would love to see MB upgrade at centre but I don't see any trades happening that don't involved shaking up the team. Look what the Ducks gave up to get Kesler...Bonino, Vey, Sbisa, 1st and 2nd all for an banged up 32 YO 55 point centre.

We don't need to upgrade at center. With DD gone we can score by committee with all the lines getting a more equal share of offensive minutes. Where I'd look for help is on the wing.

As for "how to do it" it's very simple. You find a rebuilding team and you trade picks or prospects along with salary (in the form of Bourque or DD) to offset the cap hit. Teams do this all the time. If we can get a top notch winger - great. But even if it's just a 2nd or 3rd liner who's decent we'd still be much improved.

 

[Bob b smith]

Can you qualify what that means? If he is not even NHL quality, like you have said in this thread, then he has no value. So we waive him and send him to the minors, or trade him for a late round pick.

So explain to me how- in a league where very few trades happen - we add a 2nd line centre or a first line winger and which assets you are willing to give up to get that player?

I would love to see MB upgrade at centre but I don't see any trades happening that don't involved shaking up the team. Look what the Ducks gave up to get Kesler...Bonino, Vey, Sbisa, 1st and 2nd all for an banged up 32 YO 55 point centre.

DD can't be having his Center role with MaxPac anymore. And MT doesn't seem to want to consider using him in any other way... The general rule is the coach coaches. Management is not supposed to interve in the lineups... The only way management can improve the situation is shipping him out. Take it completely out of MT's hands. Like they were alleged to have done in the Bourque/Sekac situation.

 

[Kriss E]

Two completely different players...Gallagher plays that way because it actually makes him effective and truthfully, he'd probably be even more effective if he was more judicious about how much energy he expends out on a shift

Desharnais isn't and ever will be as feisty s Gallagher is. It's pretty pointless to expect him to be.

There are a lot of knocks we can give Desharnais, not engaging players 6 inches taller and 50 lbs heavier, isn't one of them.

I don't think he has to engage in battles with bigger guys all the time, but you don't just let your opponent take the puck away either.

DD is very bad at carrying the puck and zone entries, another reason why he has no business centering our best goal scorer.

 

[groovejuice]

We don't need a 2nd line center or 1st line winger to replace him. You replace him in the aggregate. Split the exploitation and PP minutes between better centers. If you can't get a good winger, Bournival can handle 3rd line wing duties when he comes back. Move Galchenyuk to center and use him Pleks and Eller there. Split the offensive minutes and PP time between them. They are better players who will be getting better minutes. Your offense will improve.

We don't need to upgrade at center. With DD gone we can score by committee with all the lines getting a more equal share of offensive minutes. Where I'd look for help is on the wing.

As for "how to do it" it's very simple. You find a rebuilding team and you trade picks or prospects along with salary (in the form of Bourque or DD) to offset the cap hit. Teams do this all the time. If we can get a top notch winger - great. But even if it's just a 2nd or 3rd liner who's decent we'd still be much improved.

I agree with this. We lose depth at C, but end up with better balance. Pleks, Chucky, Eller and Malholtra is a very good line up in the middle.

The only issue is injury, but Prust and Bournival can fill in, and of course there are some possibilities in Hamilton.

As a bonus, Chucky gets the shifts at centre he needs. I don't buy the continual let's wait.... he already plays like a centre and he'll never get better at the position without playing the position.

 

[japhi]

Pleks, Chucky, Eller and Malholtra is a very good line up in the middle.

No, it's not.

Eller is a 30 point guy, Malhotra is an offensive black hole, and having AG at centre takes away Pleks best offensive player.

And on top of that you have a 20 YO player that hasn't played centre since junior being asked to play both ends of the ice, and down low on dfence. If he succeeds we are OK at centre, if he fails it's a disaster.

Hardly a risk worth taking with a team that's 14-5.

Which is why this discussion is so stupid, we can't improve the team simply bu subtraction, we need to add talent.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No, it's not.

Eller is a 30 point guy,

Wrong.

Eller is not a 30 point guy if you give him additional easy minutes. This is what you aren't getting.

Dude, Eller already produces points AT THE SAME RATE DD DOES only he's doing it in a completely defensive role. He doesn't get PP time, he gets the worst linemates and he plays hard minutes with defensive zone faceoffs all the time.

Give him some of the easy minutes that DD has, give him some of DD's PP time and our scoring will go up. Ditto with Pleks and ditto with Galchenyuk.

Malhotra is an offensive black hole, and having AG at centre takes away Pleks best offensive player.

Malholtra is used in a defensive role and doing pretty well at it. Nothing changes there. Yes, Pleks loses Galchenyuk but Max gains Galchenyuk. That line scores a lot more than it otherwise would. Pleks can have PAP to help him out and Eller gets Sekac. All three lines are going to have some offense on them.

And on top of that you have a 20 YO player that hasn't played centre since junior being asked to play both ends of the ice, and down low on dfence. If he succeeds we are OK at centre, if he fails it's a disaster.

He's already outproducing DD with less offensive opportunity. Even if there is some adjustment, he's going to have better linemates, easier minutes and more PP time. He's going to outproduce DD and as an added bonus we actually develop a guy who we're going to build our offense around.

And we don't need to stake our entire offense on him either. Those minutes (and Max) can be shared with other centers. Hell we could put Pleks with Max and make that our number one line if we wanted to... it will still be better and that line can actually play harder minutes to boot.

Hardly a risk worth taking with a team that's 14-5.

This team was a 100 point team last season and was bottom third in shots for, shots against, goals and was 19th in the PP.

What is there exactly to risk here? Are we going to fall any further back offensively? I don't think so man. We should've done this long ago.

Which is why this discussion is so stupid, we can't improve the team simply bu subtraction, we need to add talent.

We need to add a good winger. But we need to do that whether we get rid of DD or not. Bottom line is that DD should be long gone by now no matter how you slice it. We have three players who outproduce him yet he gets all the easy minutes. It makes ZERO sense to run your team this way.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Here is the still shot of our swarm coverage after the DD turn over in the offensive zone that I mentioned earlier. Marc Dumonts image via twitter

 

[Michelangelo]

Christopher Boucher ‏@chrisboucher73 3m3 minutes ago
That said, #habs Desharnais' o-zone start percentage last season was 52.9%, this year it's 58.8%

Infer what you will

 

[WeThreeKings]

Ridiculous, DD doesn't get O-zone starts.

 

[Kachino]

Here is the still shot of our swarm coverage after the DD turn over in the offensive zone that I mentioned earlier. Marc Dumonts image via twitter

And I have friends who fricken blame Tom Gilbert on that play ... wait, they blame Tom Gilbert no matter what

 

[Rapala]

Here is the still shot of our swarm coverage after the DD turn over in the offensive zone that I mentioned earlier. Marc Dumonts image via twitter

He should have been down below the hockey experts sign for the perfect box .
WTF and people refuse to consider we have systemic issues.