David Booth - All The Tools....No Toolbox

[Bertie]

I am no big fan of Booth but just as Raymond had to be given plenty of time to come back and indeed Kesler, we need to be patient with him and just hope he gets some form by the last quarter of the season, when hopefully it will count.

 

[Bertie]

Everything people are saying, for the most part, makes sense. The problem I have with the end result is that he's taking up more cap space than he provides in performance. If Booth were around the $2M mark then I probably wouldn't have much to say. He isn't though and that, in my opinion, makes him a waste of space. I absolutely think he should have been bought out. Many players out there can do what he's doing right now for far less than $4.25M. I would like to see him traded at the deadline for, if nothing else, to rid his contract.

I bring this all back to Gillis though. He took an unwarranted risk with a player who had a bad injury and hadn't looked like he would come back to anything near his salary level.

We have just had an illustration in the way Raymond was shunned by everyone except the guy who signed him originally and Raymond wasn't being paid anything like Booth (nor was he looking for it)

But Gillis chose the high risk road (the guy's conceit knows no bounds) instead of just letting the Sammy and Sturm contracts evaporate at the end of the year and having $4.2 and Reinprecht's contract to spend on a replacement for Manny and a big winger like Clowe.

 

[MikeK]

I bring this all back to Gillis though. He took an unwarranted risk with a player who had a bad injury and hadn't looked like he would come back to anything near his salary level.

We have just had an illustration in the way Raymond was shunned by everyone except the guy who signed him originally and Raymond wasn't being paid anything like Booth (nor was he looking for it)

But Gillis chose the high risk road (the guy's conceit knows no bounds) instead of just letting the Sammy and Sturm contracts evaporate at the end of the year and having $4.2 and Reinprecht's contract to spend on a replacement for Manny and a big winger like Clowe.

Sometimes you have to take risks. We really didn't give up anything for Booth because the players sent were walking into UFA in the summer anyway. What gets me is that GMMG continues to play the wait and see game with Booth when it's clear as day that he just doesn't have it. Certainly not $4.25M worth anyway...

...and not sure if you were saying the Canucks should have rid themselves of Booth to sign Clowe, I didn't really understand that part, but I think that would have been a terrible idea. In my opinion, that Clowe deal he signed in NJ was one of the worst deals of the summer and no way is Clowe a $5M player. The game he's played so far has really taken it's toll om him. His best days are far behind him. Even at his best he was never a $5M player. Terrible deal NJ signed there.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Everything people are saying, for the most part, makes sense. The problem I have with the end result is that he's taking up more cap space than he provides in performance. If Booth were around the $2M mark then I probably wouldn't have much to say. He isn't though and that, in my opinion, makes him a waste of space. I absolutely think he should have been bought out. Many players out there can do what he's doing right now for far less than $4.25M. I would like to see him traded at the deadline for, if nothing else, to rid his contract.

The thing is, what would we use that $4M on? Many here were adamantly against re-signing Roy and acquiring someone through trade means a loss of assets. I maintain Gillis intended to use the early season as evaluation of sorts and will look to jettison Booth at the deadline to clear cap space, provided we are targeting a bigger free agent. That or he will be gone by season's end.

Did we ever have a chance to buy him out in the off season though? I thought there was something about injured players being exempt.

No. With his injury, we were unable to buy him out, otherwise I would have opted to do so and re-sign Roy. Not to mention Aquilini is loathe to write checks to essentially have a player play elsewhere.

 

[dave babych returns]

For the record: the Canucks have had no opportunity to buy David Booth out since the 2012 offseason.

I bring this all back to Gillis though. He took an unwarranted risk with a player who had a bad injury and hadn't looked like he would come back to anything near his salary level.

We have just had an illustration in the way Raymond was shunned by everyone except the guy who signed him originally and Raymond wasn't being paid anything like Booth (nor was he looking for it)

But Gillis chose the high risk road (the guy's conceit knows no bounds) instead of just letting the Sammy and Sturm contracts evaporate at the end of the year and having $4.2 and Reinprecht's contract to spend on a replacement for Manny and a big winger like Clowe.

I think your bias is on full display here and I have my doubts that you have a firm grasp on the situation as it played out (how did he have "Reinprechts contract" to spend on an NHL player, that contract freed up zero cap space when it expired?).

Obviously acquiring Booth was something of a gamble - as is any player ever - and obviously it has not worked out.

I actually agree that in hindsight much of this players cap hit is better applied to a center who can anchor a third line, however at the time the Booth deal was completed it was not clear that Manny was done, we had just seen Max Lapierre play like a third liner for a two month playoff run and Cody Hodgson was still on the team (of course it's not really clear whether he was in the future plans at that point).

But, that's hindsight and given the kind of money being handed out to wingers in the free agent market I think the team would have to have made a pitch to one of just a couple of players likely to actually be worth that salary (and they did with Shane Doan, you'll recall) and then actually come away with that player. It didn't pan out that way unfortunately.

Once again we're talking about a combination of outcomes that wasn't particularly foreseeable at the time but for whatever reason you've chosen to interpret it as arrogance and conceit.

 

[Pip]

I expected absolutely nothing from David Booth coming into this season and have come away disappointed every night

I'm thinking you have no idea what "zero expectations" is then. He hasn't been a liability out there so if you really had no expectations he wouldn't be a dissapointment. Like many people have stated in this thread, if David Booth was making 2 million, his play would easily be sufficient because he's playing well enough defensively, pushes the play in the right direction, and is good on the forecheck. Unfortunately he makes over 4 mill and at that salary we want more production.

I would argue that you actually had high expectations for Booth.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm thinking you have no idea what "zero expectations" is then. He hasn't been a liability out there so if you really had no expectations he wouldn't be a dissapointment. Like many people have stated in this thread, David Booth at 2 million and his play would easily sufficient cause he's playing well enough defensively, pushes the play in the right direction, and is good on the forecheck. Unfortunately he makes over 4 mill and at that salary we want more production.

I would argue that you actually had high expectations for Booth.

I was going to say something similar to this. Well put. Expectations are the reference point from which you will be elated/disappointed with Booth's play.

What should the expectations have been?

This player has missed nearly 1.5 years worth of games in Canucks uniform. Has suffered brutal injuries while here. He's just come back. After the first few adrenaline filled games, where no one took great issue with how he performed (some actually praised him!), he now finds himself mired in a slump. Surprise? Again, that comes down to expectations.

Earlier on the comments were: I just hope he doesn't get injured again. Now, as each game passes and he is staying in the line-up, the expectations have ramped up. Did he still miss those games? Yes. So, why is he expected to behave like he hadn't?

 

[LolClarkson*]

I bring this all back to Gillis though. He took an unwarranted risk with a player who had a bad injury and hadn't looked like he would come back to anything near his salary level.

We have just had an illustration in the way Raymond was shunned by everyone except the guy who signed him originally and Raymond wasn't being paid anything like Booth (nor was he looking for it)

But Gillis chose the high risk road (the guy's conceit knows no bounds) instead of just letting the Sammy and Sturm contracts evaporate at the end of the year and having $4.2 and Reinprecht's contract to spend on a replacement for Manny and a big winger like Clowe.

You were making sense until you mentioned Clowe.

 

[LolClarkson*]

No, but he's the biggest victim recently, Kesler and Kassian all get some of this treatment, as well as Bieksa. Once someone is declared bad around here, they're not given a fair shake in our analysis.

Hence all the hyperbole when describing him, and his faults

True. The call on Steve Bernier was the right one. He was being ridiculed on here and it wasn't long after that he was shipped out.

I thought Booth could be better. Let's give him 10 more games and make the definitive call. Mayr Gillis reads these boards..

 

[MrShift4]

Was really hoping for the Booth-Schroeder-Kassian line to succeed. Too bad about JS.
Booth continues to be a disappointment to me. Still cheering for him and hoping he will prove me wrong.

 

[LolClarkson*]

Booth can still cut to the net and get a good chance on goal. He just needs to bury a few of them or get a game winning goal

 

[putridgasbag]

He just needs to pray a little harder.

Nah the team brought in an expert and they believe that they can get him to pray smarter.

 

[Bertie]

You were making sense until you mentioned Clowe.

I said "like Clowe" though as I don't think he was available at the time of the Booth trade. What I meant was a big physical winger who could step in for the Sedins and put up fair numbers.

 

[Pip]

I said "like Clowe" though as I don't think he was available at the time of the Booth trade. What I meant was a big physical winger who could step in for the Sedins and put up fair numbers.

Those types of players aren't exactly easy to get

 

[LolClarkson*]

I said "like Clowe" though as I don't think he was available at the time of the Booth trade. What I meant was a big physical winger who could step in for the Sedins and put up fair numbers.

Well that ain't Clowe. Booth had more goals before the trade deadline last yet then Clowe did.

Clowe is a horrible hockey player

 

[Var]

Honestly, Booth seems like a Bertuzzi who's missing a Naslund. Watching him out there is great, but a lot of the time, there are these breakdowns in our offensive possession, and it usually doesn't come from him. It's usually Kassian turning it over and all of a sudden it's going the other way and Booths back on the bench. Booth may not be a high finish guy himself really, but with some better chemistry, he really could be dangerous and for the same reasons Bertuzzi was. He opens up holes in the other team and draws double coverage. If he ever gets back to having Hank or Kes center his line, look out.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Nearing the 1000th marker.

New thread: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=73041723#post73041723