Player Discussion Dave Tippett: The Tipping Point

[Cloned]

He might be the best actual in his prime coach we’ve had since prime MacT (I hate to say it but he did a lot with some iffy rosters back then).

His breakout schemes and forecheck system are money.

Click to read more...

 

[Aerchon]

The team looks vastly better under him.

But.

It's early.

Only played against weaker teams.

And McLellan and Hitchcock both had short stints of success as well.

Hope it continues. The team really looks faster.

 

[Cloned]

The team looks vastly better under him.

But.

It's early.

Only played against weaker teams.

And McLellan and Hitchcock both had short stints of success as well.

Hope it continues. The team really looks faster.

The team never looked this good stylistically under them. It’s like Tippett finally has them playing a modern NHL game.

He also has more designed breakouts than you’d see on a teenager’s face.

 

[MaxR11]

Ya this team looks good. It's bought in for sure to the culture Tips and Holland are selling. The biggest difference in what we're seeing from this team is CONSISTENT effort and URGENCY on almost every shift when they play well.

There's a MUCH different urgency in trying to get the puck back with this team compared to the previous teams. Before it was almost like they resigned themselves to letting the other team possess the puck and did not try 100% to WANT it back.

They stay in battles and never give up on a battle win or lose. Before they didn't stay in the puck battle or when they'd lose the battle they'd let up. Now they chase the mofo down when they lose the battle causing the other team's player to make a rushed play and greater chance of a bad pass or turnover.

Back check and rushing opposing players with puck has been top notch. Less time and space for the opposition makes a HUGE difference. It makes Smith or Kosk look better because the shots on goal are just a bit less accurate when rushed. They don't have that SPLIT second to change the angle on the shot to make it harder on our goalies. These seemingly little things make a huge difference in making the goalies look good. It's all about CULTURE, EFFORT, GRIND and the veteran presence holding guys accountable to the high standard in urgency and effort and consistency.

They're playing better and a bit tighter as a five man unit too. Less dragging their a** on the backcheck resulting in huge gaps in space for opposition. It's tough to break through a tight 5 man unit.

Drai has been very good. He's being a leader and playing hard and smart on BOTH sides (offence and defence). Makes a huge difference when your leaders and best players are responsible and accountable. When they're not and they cheat, stupid giveaways and play loosey goosey etc it really kills momentum and flow and the spirit of your team (see Taylor Hall).

I really think vets like Neal, Sheahan and Smith's voices on the bench and in the room are helping a lot with the culture and standards and accountability of this team.

We've seen them play kinda like this last year for a couple of stretches and it was all about hard work. Consistent hard work and urgency. ALWAYS hard on the back check, staying in the puck battles etc. When they start to play bad it's because they stop doing those things. It's very obvious. Now it's a matter of ingraining this culture with the team. If they can play hard like this they will be at the very least a much better team than last year and fight for a playoff spot. It's a fine line between playing hard and sagging just enough.

 

[Cloned]

He’s just a smart, smart man.

 

[voxel]

During the playoff bound year under McLellan we had stretches of games(10-20?) where we could move the puck and defend well. We more puck movers back then and Larsson was his good self. I want to see 20-30 games of this before final judgement.

 

[Garbo Man]

The team looks vastly better under him.

But.

It's early.

Only played against weaker teams.

And McLellan and Hitchcock both had short stints of success as well.

Hope it continues. The team really looks faster.

Like i've said in other threads the "weaker" teams are usually the teams that dominated us in the past. The "stronger" teams were usually teams the Oilers showed up to play

 

[Zaddy]

He's been the MVP (Most Valuable Person ) for me so far this season in terms of the Oilers success. I was really skeptical of this team going into the season. On paper the team looks terrible outside a handful of players, so it is truly impressive what Tippett has managed to do with such a ragtag squad.

 

[Senor Catface]

The team looks vastly better under him.

But.

It's early.

Only played against weaker teams.

And McLellan and Hitchcock both had short stints of success as well.

Hope it continues. The team really looks faster.

Stop saying it’s early.

You said the season was over in July. J U L Y

 

[Mr Positive]

I'm a big believer that on-ice talent is the main factor, but a bad coach can bring a good roster down. This roster is better than last year's. Maybe McLellan would have been just as good with this roster. Maybe not. Either way I'm happy with Tippett. Tmac getting fired just goes with the territory of being a coach.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

Tippsy is a friggun legend. Love that we finally have the coach, GM and roster it takes to have a huge season. There are 30 other clubs that right now wish they picked Tippsy and Hollsy up when they had the chance (hinesight is 20-20).

I was down on Nicholson after last season but he really deserves a lot of credit for turning this club around, he analysed the gaps, actionized a plan and executed the pivot perfectly.

 

[rboomercat90]

I'm a big believer that on-ice talent is the main factor, but a bad coach can bring a good roster down. This roster is better than last year's. Maybe McLellan would have been just as good with this roster. Maybe not. Either way I'm happy with Tippett. Tmac getting fired just goes with the territory of being a coach.

This post reminds me of some of the things Mactavish used to say after Eakins got fired and the team was showing improvement under Nelson.

Tippet is a much better coach than Mclellan. Historically, his teams overachieved while Mclellan’s underachieved. A big part of the reason why is because of him being able to get extra from his non star players, putting them into positions to use their strengths. Mclellan got nothing from those types, didn’t matter who they were because he didn’t see the need to try to look for or match strengths against other teams weaknesses. He believed in plug and play into his system and if it didn’t work he’d blame the player instead of the system. I don’t see any reason to think things would have changed for him with this crop either.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

He’s just a smart, smart man.

Sounds like Dallas Eakins. Eakins always said the right things at the beginning and talked like he knew what he was doing.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

Tippsy is a friggun legend. Love that we finally have the coach, GM and roster it takes to have a huge season. There are 30 other clubs that right now wish they picked Tippsy and Hollsy up when they had the chance (hinesight is 20-20).

I was down on Nicholson after last season but he really deserves a lot of credit for turning this club around, he analysed the gaps, actionized a plan and executed the pivot perfectly.

How do you know it was Nicholson. Maybe it was the decision of Gretzky, Lowe, Howson and Coffey.

 

[Todd from Leduc]

How do you know it was Nicholson. Maybe it was the decision of Gretzky, Lowe, Howson and Coffey.

Because Bob is the President and he is chief in command. Those other guys are ambassadors.

 

[oilynutz]

Sounds like Dallas Eakins. Eakins always said the right things at the beginning and talked like he knew what he was doing.

You're comparing Tippett to Eakins now? Hot take of the day for sure

 

[McCombo]

Didn't know which thread would be the best for this post, but decided to use this one because this is all about looking behind the results, just like coaching!

I am an Oilers fan, but I am also heavily into betting. The most important thing in betting is to as objective as you can. No emotion, no intuition, just pure numbers. So lets take a dive into numbers and see what we can find !

Strength of opponents so far

Before the season only Devils were more likely to make than miss playoffs. They were ranked middle of the pack (15th). Islanders 20th, Vancouver 25th, Rangers 26th and Kings 29th (via Dom Luszczyszyn Season previews, some of you probably hate him because he is Leafs guy, but his numbers were really close to few really smart finnish bettors numbers). So Oilers haven't faced even above average NHL team yet. But 3 road games and NY area road trip isn't easy eventhough the teams aren't the strongest at the moment.

Game by game (5on5)

VS Vancouver
Expected goals (xG) -0.11
Corsi -19
Fenwick -14
Scoring chances -9
High Danger Scoring Chances +2

VS Los Angeles
xG -0.09
Corsi -4
Fenwick -3
SC Even
HDSC +1

@ NY Islanders
xG +0.03
Corsi -8
Fenwick -5
SC +4
HDSC +2

@ New Jersey
xG -0.94
Corsi -15
Fenwick -14
SC -9
HDSC -5

@NY Rangers
xG +1.30
Corsi +29
Fenwick +24
SC +12
HDSC +3

All these numbers are from Natural Stat Trick. And while they aren't perfect stats they are much better indicator than just results. Three games have been pretty close 5 on 5, Jersey game was really bad and yesterday really good. Eye test and numbers really go hand in hand here. Oilers have won HDSC in 4 out of 5 games, so defensive zone structure has been good too. Allow perimeter but clog the middle.


Overall Ranks

Corsi for % 5 on 5: 23th
Fenwick for % 5 on 5: 23th
xG for % 5 on 5: 14th
Scoring chances % 5 on 5: 20th
High Danger Corsi for 5 on 5: 12th

Corsi close 5 on 5: 7th
Fenwick close 5 on 5: 10th
PDO (5 on 5 shooting % + save%): 6th (103.3)

Power Play %: 2nd (41.2%)
Penalty Kill %: 2nd (94.1%)

Shooting %: 3rd (17.22%)
Save %: 11th (91.14%)

Before the season my friend asked me that do the Oilers make playoffs this year. My short answer was "No", but then I added that there is a chance if one or both goalies play really well, PP and PK works. Right now those things really work, PP/PK especially. But unfortunately they are about to see some regression for sure. And overall also Oilers haven't been that good. On the positive note, high danger corsi is positive and when the score has been close Oilers have been on the + side of the possession. But we got to remember that 5 game sample size is really small (works both ways of course). Lets see these numbers after 15 mark and then they give much more accurate info. Most importantly after 5-0 start they are right now more likely to make than miss playoffs ! Dom Luszczyszyn projections shows that Oilers make playoffs 52% of the time. Moneypuck.com 62.1%.

I would like to see Holland make a move to improve/balance (needs more skilled forwards) team now that the playoffs are a real possibility. But let the other team be the desperate one, no hurry to do it. Maybe Larsson (+Puljujärvi) for long term help in forward positions. Bear, Persson and Bouchard are starting to make Larsson expendable. Three righties who can move the puck, left side is more defensive minded with Nurse, Klefbom, Russell/Lagesson. Long term vision is still much more important than short term, even after 5-0 start Oilers are not close to being SC contenders.

And I am not being negative nancy, just trying to be objective and honest.

 

[Mr Positive]

This post reminds me of some of the things Mactavish used to say after Eakins got fired and the team was showing improvement under Nelson.

Tippet is a much better coach than Mclellan. Historically, his teams overachieved while Mclellan’s underachieved. A big part of the reason why is because of him being able to get extra from his non star players, putting them into positions to use their strengths. Mclellan got nothing from those types, didn’t matter who they were because he didn’t see the need to try to look for or match strengths against other teams weaknesses. He believed in plug and play into his system and if it didn’t work he’d blame the player instead of the system. I don’t see any reason to think things would have changed for him with this crop either.

I don't know how you could say that it would have made no difference what McLellan's roster was. When he had good puck moving D and a bottom six that was clicking, with some speed and PK ability, we got a divisional playoff spot and into the 2nd round of the playoffs. In the last years, he didn't have Ethan Bear as he is now, or Persson. None of those D were ready. He didn't have the speed in the bottom six that Tippett was given. He had to deal with what to do with Lucic. When there were injuries, he was given Manning and Petrovic and Spooner and Gagner.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

The team never looked this good stylistically under them. It’s like Tippett finally has them playing a modern NHL game.

He also has more designed breakouts than you’d see on a teenager’s face.

This is 100% not true. They looked totally in control from January until they were eliminated from the playoffs in 2016-17 as well as they looked like world beaters for about 10 games after Hitchcock took over so, no, I won't start anointing Tippett as the "Lord our Saviour" until I see a few more games.

Breakouts have been pretty good though.

 

[Aerchon]

Didn't know which thread would be the best for this post, but decided to use this one because this is all about looking behind the results, just like coaching!

I am an Oilers fan, but I am also heavily into betting. The most important thing in betting is to as objective as you can. No emotion, no intuition, just pure numbers. So lets take a dive into numbers and see what we can find !

Strength of opponents so far

Before the season only Devils were more likely to make than miss playoffs. They were ranked middle of the pack (15th). Islanders 20th, Vancouver 25th, Rangers 26th and Kings 29th (via Dom Luszczyszyn Season previews, some of you probably hate him because he is Leafs guy, but his numbers were really close to few really smart finnish bettors numbers). So Oilers haven't faced even above average NHL team yet. But 3 road games and NY area road trip isn't easy eventhough the teams aren't the strongest at the moment.

Game by game (5on5)

VS Vancouver
Expected goals (xG) -0.11
Corsi -19
Fenwick -14
Scoring chances -9
High Danger Scoring Chances +2

VS Los Angeles
xG -0.09
Corsi -4
Fenwick -3
SC Even
HDSC +1

@ NY Islanders
xG +0.03
Corsi -8
Fenwick -5
SC +4
HDSC +2

@ New Jersey
xG -0.94
Corsi -15
Fenwick -14
SC -9
HDSC -5

@NY Rangers
xG +1.30
Corsi +29
Fenwick +24
SC +12
HDSC +3

All these numbers are from Natural Stat Trick. And while they aren't perfect stats they are much better indicator than just results. Three games have been pretty close 5 on 5, Jersey game was really bad and yesterday really good. Eye test and numbers really go hand in hand here. Oilers have won HDSC in 4 out of 5 games, so defensive zone structure has been good too. Allow perimeter but clog the middle.


Overall Ranks

Corsi for % 5 on 5: 23th
Fenwick for % 5 on 5: 23th
xG for % 5 on 5: 14th
Scoring chances % 5 on 5: 20th
High Danger Corsi for 5 on 5: 12th

Corsi close 5 on 5: 7th
Fenwick close 5 on 5: 10th
PDO (5 on 5 shooting % + save%): 6th (103.3)

Power Play %: 2nd (41.2%)
Penalty Kill %: 2nd (94.1%)

Shooting %: 3rd (17.22%)
Save %: 11th (91.14%)

Before the season my friend asked me that do the Oilers make playoffs this year. My short answer was "No", but then I added that there is a chance if one or both goalies play really well, PP and PK works. Right now those things really work, PP/PK especially. But unfortunately they are about to see some regression for sure. And overall also Oilers haven't been that good. On the positive note, high danger corsi is positive and when the score has been close Oilers have been on the + side of the possession. But we got to remember that 5 game sample size is really small (works both ways of course). Lets see these numbers after 15 mark and then they give much more accurate info. Most importantly after 5-0 start they are right now more likely to make than miss playoffs ! Dom Luszczyszyn projections shows that Oilers make playoffs 52% of the time. Moneypuck.com 62.1%.

I would like to see Holland make a move to improve/balance (needs more skilled forwards) team now that the playoffs are a real possibility. But let the other team be the desperate one, no hurry to do it. Maybe Larsson (+Puljujärvi) for long term help in forward positions. Bear, Persson and Bouchard are starting to make Larsson expendable. Three righties who can move the puck, left side is more defensive minded with Nurse, Klefbom, Russell/Lagesson. Long term vision is still much more important than short term, even after 5-0 start Oilers are not close to being SC contenders.

And I am not being negative nancy, just trying to be objective and honest.

Thanks for this post.

I'm surprised and impressed with many of the responses in this thread.

More reasonable than I was expecting. Many other threads are all but planning the parade.

 

[oilynutz]

Didn't know which thread would be the best for this post, but decided to use this one because this is all about looking behind the results, just like coaching!

I am an Oilers fan, but I am also heavily into betting. The most important thing in betting is to as objective as you can. No emotion, no intuition, just pure numbers. So lets take a dive into numbers and see what we can find !

Strength of opponents so far

Before the season only Devils were more likely to make than miss playoffs. They were ranked middle of the pack (15th). Islanders 20th, Vancouver 25th, Rangers 26th and Kings 29th (via Dom Luszczyszyn Season previews, some of you probably hate him because he is Leafs guy, but his numbers were really close to few really smart finnish bettors numbers). So Oilers haven't faced even above average NHL team yet. But 3 road games and NY area road trip isn't easy eventhough the teams aren't the strongest at the moment.

Game by game (5on5)

VS Vancouver
Expected goals (xG) -0.11
Corsi -19
Fenwick -14
Scoring chances -9
High Danger Scoring Chances +2

VS Los Angeles
xG -0.09
Corsi -4
Fenwick -3
SC Even
HDSC +1

@ NY Islanders
xG +0.03
Corsi -8
Fenwick -5
SC +4
HDSC +2

@ New Jersey
xG -0.94
Corsi -15
Fenwick -14
SC -9
HDSC -5

@NY Rangers
xG +1.30
Corsi +29
Fenwick +24
SC +12
HDSC +3

All these numbers are from Natural Stat Trick. And while they aren't perfect stats they are much better indicator than just results. Three games have been pretty close 5 on 5, Jersey game was really bad and yesterday really good. Eye test and numbers really go hand in hand here. Oilers have won HDSC in 4 out of 5 games, so defensive zone structure has been good too. Allow perimeter but clog the middle.


Overall Ranks

Corsi for % 5 on 5: 23th
Fenwick for % 5 on 5: 23th
xG for % 5 on 5: 14th
Scoring chances % 5 on 5: 20th
High Danger Corsi for 5 on 5: 12th

Corsi close 5 on 5: 7th
Fenwick close 5 on 5: 10th
PDO (5 on 5 shooting % + save%): 6th (103.3)

Power Play %: 2nd (41.2%)
Penalty Kill %: 2nd (94.1%)

Shooting %: 3rd (17.22%)
Save %: 11th (91.14%)

Before the season my friend asked me that do the Oilers make playoffs this year. My short answer was "No", but then I added that there is a chance if one or both goalies play really well, PP and PK works. Right now those things really work, PP/PK especially. But unfortunately they are about to see some regression for sure. And overall also Oilers haven't been that good. On the positive note, high danger corsi is positive and when the score has been close Oilers have been on the + side of the possession. But we got to remember that 5 game sample size is really small (works both ways of course). Lets see these numbers after 15 mark and then they give much more accurate info. Most importantly after 5-0 start they are right now more likely to make than miss playoffs ! Dom Luszczyszyn projections shows that Oilers make playoffs 52% of the time. Moneypuck.com 62.1%.

I would like to see Holland make a move to improve/balance (needs more skilled forwards) team now that the playoffs are a real possibility. But let the other team be the desperate one, no hurry to do it. Maybe Larsson (+Puljujärvi) for long term help in forward positions. Bear, Persson and Bouchard are starting to make Larsson expendable. Three righties who can move the puck, left side is more defensive minded with Nurse, Klefbom, Russell/Lagesson. Long term vision is still much more important than short term, even after 5-0 start Oilers are not close to being SC contenders.

And I am not being negative nancy, just trying to be objective and honest.

Do you have Dom Luszczyszyn preseason ranking for last season? Hockey is one of the toughest sports to get an accurate preseason ranking.

 

[Bangers]

The team never looked this good stylistically under them. It’s like Tippett finally has them playing a modern NHL game.

He also has more designed breakouts than you’d see on a teenager’s face.

Who designs breakouts on a teenager's face?

 

[Drivesaitl]

The team never looked this good stylistically under them. It’s like Tippett finally has them playing a modern NHL game.

He also has more designed breakouts than you’d see on a teenager’s face.

This is it here.

Tippett is real. He's done some solid coaching in Arizona and got one of the worst rosters in the league to the playoffs multiple times. 3 years in a row and including a heroic trip all the way to the conference final. While people here were yelling abuse at the 2012 run by the Yotes and screaming "no talent cheaters" it was very evident then that Tippett is in company with Trotz as best coach in the league. There is no way that lineup should have been able to go to the conference final, they might have gone all the way except that was the Kings breakout indestructible year.

The Oilers are playing better now than any time since 05-06. The system and schemes and dedication to positioning is very consistent and evident. This kind of team gelling hasn't been seen by Oilers fans in the same length of time. Its very evident everybody is on board and has faith with coaching and lineup. Albeit this is mostly an ordinary lineup, but one that knows what it is doing and is prepared to do the work.

 

[oobga]

The team never looked this good stylistically under them. It’s like Tippett finally has them playing a modern NHL game.

He also has more designed breakouts than you’d see on a teenager’s face.

I'm honestly a bit sad that no one else is missing the ring around the boards play to the stationary winger on the boards 10 ft inside our blue line. After watching that for 3 years straight, along with how every single team knew it was coming and would jump in front of the winger to steal...I kinda miss it.

I guess I could watch more Kings games.

 

[MaxR11]

This is it here.

Tippett is real. He's done some solid coaching in Arizona and got one of the worst rosters in the league to the playoffs multiple times. 3 years in a row and including a heroic trip all the way to the conference final. While people here were yelling abuse at the 2012 run by the Yotes and screaming "no talent cheaters" it was very evident then that Tippett is in company with Trotz as best coach in the league. There is no way that lineup should have been able to go to the conference final, they might have gone all the way except that was the Kings breakout indestructible year.

The Oilers are playing better now than any time since 05-06. The system and schemes and dedication to positioning is very consistent and evident. This kind of team gelling hasn't been seen by Oilers fans in the same length of time. Its very evident everybody is on board and has faith with coaching and lineup. Albeit this is mostly an ordinary lineup, but one that knows what it is doing and is prepared to do the work.

It looks good for now, but remember a lot of these things were said about the Oil last year when Hitch came aboard. They ALSO looked more structured, played with more urgency and effort, backchecking like demons etc for a stretch. Yes there are sublte systemic and schematic wrinkles but it's essentially not as different as people think when it comes to the differences between the way Todd and Hitch WANTED them to play.

It really really boils down to culture, accountability, habits and most importantly BUY IN. Starts at the top. Holland has certain values and standards of what he wants and has likely communicated this with the coaches and the players. Then there's the coaching staff and i believe an underrated aspect right now are a few of the new vets we added. Smith is a very vocal veteran leader. He may be a goalie but he's one of those tendys that have the ability to be as much of an effective leader as a player. He has a strong personality and a strong opinion on how he wants all five players on the ice to play in front of him and he won't be shy to say it or call guys out for not being in position or giving enough effort on the back check etc.

Having a few new veteran voices like Neal, Smith and Sheahan etc help a lot in relaying the message from the coaches and to mentor players with less experience than them. They are all playing fairly well now and more importantly have accepted and fit into their roles which makes a huge difference in how confident they are to deliver their message and how well they will be listened to (see Looch for the opposite). Sheahan could be that stabilizing veteran leader the bottom six needed. Help mentor guys like Khaira. Help new euro vets like Nygard, Haas feel more comfortable. It helps we have older PROs like Nygard in instead of Pooly. You can see how Nygard is a lot smarter and competes harder than Pooly game in game out.

We need our leaders and best players to be complete sold on the new culture and standards. Early on it seems like it's happening especially with guys like Drai and Klef. I'm impressed with how Drai is being quite good and responsible on both sides of the puck and the effort level and urgency is higher.