Value of: Darren Helm

[drw02]

Smith has absolutely not outplayed Helm, and Helm is not even in the Top 10 reasons why we are bad!

He's not among the top reasons no but just cause he's less terrible than other guys doesn't make him good. He's a worthless player in today's NHL.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I think for sure dallas or edmonton who know helm would take him at 1.9 in a heart beat , could be wrong though

I'd think no thanks from Edmonton. The bottom 6 is doing well enough these days and Helm isn't enough of an upgrade to justify taking on his cap hit even at 1.9.

 

[saska sault]

Players like Helm are part of the reason why the Wings are terrible. He doesn't bring anything to the table that helps his team win hockey games. He's basically a way overpaid replacement level player atp, a borderline prospect like Givani Smith has already outplayed him

You don't watch many Wings games do you? Helm never has been the issue.

 

[saska sault]

He's not among the top reasons no but just cause he's less terrible than other guys doesn't make him good. He's a worthless player in today's NHL.

We have Ehn, Erne, Perlini, Daley, Howard, Biega, Lashoff, Nielsen, Abdelkader, Ericson, Mcilrath.. Those are the reasons we are this bad. Guys like Helm and Glendenning are two of the only veteran players we have that actually offer any contributions on and off the ice. I'm not saying they are game breakers, but they would not look out of place on any contending teams bottom 6. Hard for anyone to really shine on Detroit this year.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

I'd think no thanks from Edmonton. The bottom 6 is doing well enough these days and Helm isn't enough of an upgrade to justify taking on his cap hit even at 1.9.

Id say hes better than russell and nygard . Holland knows helm and would probably value him more than most gm’s , but hey you might be right

 

[ElysiumAB]

The thread isn't about Darren Helm and his value? Both things I discussed?

I was just saying my comment was a bit off topic (a random Red Wings anecdote), I wasn't referring to your post - sorry for the confusion.

 

[bernmeister]

He's a good playoff vet to add to your team, but wonder what the cost of adding him would be. But if I were a GM I'd totally consider adding him to the bottom six.

I think he'd be a good fit in Toronto or Washington.

only downside here is his back

 

[ElysiumAB]

no they don’t

Have you watched them lately? It’s embarrassing

The scores are embarrassing to be sure, which is kind of my pont - the effort level is there, and Blashill seems to always have them playing hard in spite of endless losses.

I'm separating the result from the effort, and saying I'm always impressed with the hustle (forward core, specifically) even though they have last place locked up.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Players like Helm are part of the reason why the Wings are terrible. He doesn't bring anything to the table that helps his team win hockey games. He's basically a way overpaid replacement level player atp, a borderline prospect like Givani Smith has already outplayed him

Wow, this an absolutely horrible hot take.

Among guys that have been with the team all year, a team with a historically bad goal differential, Helm leads in +/- while taking mostly defensive assignments and jumping all over the line up.

And Smith and Helm are only compare in that they are bottom 6 forwards. After that it's apples to oranges. Even at just over 11 years older, Helm blows the doors off Smith in the skating department. Helm is also much better in his own zone and is still a decent penalty killer, something Smith has yet to do at the NHL level.

It would've been easier just to say "I don't like Helm because I'm still mad at Ken Holland."

 

[marcmadsen]

The scores are embarrassing to be sure, which is kind of my pont - the effort level is there, and Blashill seems to always have them playing hard in spite of endless losses.

I'm separating the result from the effort, and saying I'm always impressed with the hustle (forward core, specifically) even though they have last place locked up.

Did you see last night's game? Short of a handful of players, the DRW really did not show up. Over half the team stunk from the opening face-off on

 

[Hammettf2b]

Players like Helm are part of the reason why the Wings are terrible. He doesn't bring anything to the table that helps his team win hockey games. He's basically a way overpaid replacement level player atp, a borderline prospect like Givani Smith has already outplayed him

This is completely false. Not everything about hockey is about scoring goals. Helm draws penalties, kills penalties, bring energy every shift. Helm is one of the last reasons why this team is bad.

 

[ElysiumAB]

Did you see last night's game? Short of a handful of players, the DRW really did not show up. Over half the team stunk from the opening face-off on

No, I haven't watched the last 5-10 to be honest - but watched most every game before that.

Last night the NBC app wasn't working, and no way in hell I'm watching an NBC broadcast on my television... the mute button wouldn't make it through the night.

 

[Winger98]

@Mrfenn92 has already laid out the reasoning why the wings don't have to deal Helm and it's been touched on why it isn't the worst thing to have him around. If the return is there a deal is worth it, but I wouldn't move him for less than a 2nd.

He goes a long way towards solidifying someone's bottom6, is versatile enough to slot in pretty much anywhere as a support player if the need arises, and has a year left at a reasonable salary if we're talking about the Wings eating a chunk of it. If no one wants to pay up, the Wings keep a guy who is a good vet and can help the continued process of moving kids into the lineup.

 

[Richard Menzel]

Oh, I mean Detroit retains half and maybe even takes cap dump from Toronto. Like Cody Ceci for example, Detroit is bound to tank anyway, plus they're desperate for D. And if Toronto wanted to get Dillon, then it'd be easier for them to take in his contract.

To fix the proposal this is how it'd look.

Detroit:
Cody Ceci
Nic Petan
4th 2020
Conditional pick (2nd 2021 or 3rd 2021, based on if Toronto wins the cup or Helm signing an extension/gets a certain amount of points)

Toronto:
Darren Helm (50% retained by Detroit)

Detroit will not take on salary on Ceci without a 2nd rd draft pick As for Petan no interest, no team wanted him when he was on waivers!

 

[WingsMJN2965]

You don't watch many Wings games do you? Helm never has been the issue.

Highlighted the key words.

 

[saska sault]

Highlighted the key words.

He definitely isn't as effective as he use to be, but I havent watched a game this year and had to think about how badly I want him gone, unlike the other 3/4s of our team. Contract and age aside, he is doing his role IMO. Hard to be a standout as a role player on this squad.

 

[Brownies]

Helm always seems to play good and give his best when I see him. Would be a good pick up I think.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

He definitely isn't as effective as he use to be, but I havent watched a game this year and had to think about how badly I want him gone, unlike the other 3/4s of our team. Contract and age aside, he is doing his role IMO. Hard to be a standout as a role player on this squad.

He might stand out more as a role player if he weren't positioned like he's a top 6er.

 

[BlackFrancis]

but I wouldn't move him for less than a 2nd

At 50% retention, you expect someone to pay close to $2M next season for a 34 year old, 20 point 4th line player? And give up a 2nd round pick for the privilege?

 

[lilidk]

Helm has another 4-5 years , still one of the best skater on the team, good with kids. Red wings has plenty good 3-4 line players , not so much first six

 

[saska sault]

He might stand out more as a role player if he weren't positioned like he's a top 6er.

I agree, same goes for a few players. Basically our entire top line is ideally slotted as a 2nd line for the most part, they are capable of being a top line but maybe not on a contending team. The entire Wings team looks bad because they are slotted 1 or 2 lines above where they should be, some shouldn't even be in the NHL and the defensemen are guys clinging onto their last shot of being in the league, while being scared to make mistakes.

 

[13to40]

Can see Kenny holland trading for him at the deadline

EDM: Helmer @ 50%
DET: conditional 3rd 2021 (that turns into a 2nd if EDM makes the WCF in either of the two years) + 5th

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I agree, same goes for a few players. Basically our entire top line is ideally slotted as a 2nd line for the most part, they are capable of being a top line but maybe not on a contending team. The entire Wings team looks bad because they are slotted 1 or 2 lines above where they should be, some shouldn't even be in the NHL and the defensemen are guys clinging onto their last shot of being in the league, while being scared to make mistakes.

Larkin/Bert/Mantha is actually a really good 1st line. Problem is once teams figured out the rest of a team wasn't a threat, they just threw everything at that line.

 

[deca guard]

redwings could build a contender a heck of a 4 line with helm n glendenny , and both can play center . plus both have more years on contracts . now add athanasou to the trade and a contender seriously improves their team . mean while redwings can take back all cap dumps needed while retaining 50% on athanasou and glendenny . this would cost a contender a couple valuable futures but could get them the cup and all 3 guys would be back next season .

 

[780il]

Would only really make sense for the Oil if Detroit took back Russel