Player Discussion Darnell Nurse

[Musashi]

Junior PPG:

0.19
0.60
0.78
0.92

Thats whats called progression

I think it would be unreasonable to think his offense will automatically show up like it dude in junior. I see some possibilities in how he drives the puck wide but he needs to be able to find the trailing man which could definitely still develop.

He's really showed nothing with his wrist or slap shot yet at the big level which is a cause for concern. He's okay at getting his wrist shot through but nothing seems to ever come of it.

When you watch him play where do you think his offensive game will show up?

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

So you guys the best course of action to fix a D with atrocious D is too keep all forwards in tack and just trade D for eachother? Does noone see the issue with this?
You get a 2 year upgrade and take on massive risk.

And for everyone pimping Hamonic as a major improvement. Dont forget the hype Fayne had in NJ to

As for Yak/McDavid, that line was scoring at a similar rate to this line at even strength. Yak is a clear spet down from Eberle. But Eberle is not some untouchable player all of a sudden

I never once said that. You were saying our top 6 was bad offensively. Which i was correcting you on cause that is quite wrong.

 

[Aceboogie]

This, our forward core as a whole isn't that bad. It's our totally anemic to offence defence that had kept our scoring down. I dunno how we can even judge what this forward core can do given the lack of support from the defence.

I think right now chiarelli's template has to look something like this:

Hall-Draisaitl-?
?-Mcdavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Kassian
?-Letestu-Pakarainen

Sekera-?
Klefbom-?
Davidson/Nurse-Fayne
?

Talbot

I really don't think we're that far from being a playoff contender if you fill those question marks with the right types of players.

Why is Pouliot being booted? Guy is producing and a relentless forechecker. Hes ideal 2LW

And once Klefbom comes back, you can bet Sekera wont be on the top pairing

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Also your chart basically shows Fayne was a pretty good bottom pairing d who played a little more than average bottom pairing minutes. Harmonics stats are equal or better in most areas while playing more minutes.

You broke your own point.

 

[Oilfan2]

This, our forward core as a whole isn't that bad. It's our totally anemic to offence defence that had kept our scoring down. I dunno how we can even judge what this forward core can do given the lack of support from the defence.

I think right now chiarelli's template has to look something like this:

Hall-Draisaitl-?
?-Mcdavid-Eberle
Pouliot-RNH-Kassian
?-Letestu-Pakarainen

Sekera-?
Klefbom-?
Davidson/Nurse-Fayne
?

Talbot

I really don't think we're that far from being a playoff contender if you fill those question marks with the right types of players.

I actually like that template but I think the success of the team depends on the ? from both the D and forwards. That right mix is critical..given that neither of the top 6, knows how to handle the boards, in front of the net, finish checks, etc.

 

[Raab]

Nah, most were disappointed we didn't get monahan and there was a good split of reactions of taking Nurse over the russian winger. Nurse was already showing there was evidence he could have an offensive package with his point totals in his draft year so he wasn't limited to a stay at home type.

We just had needs everywhere though and picking Nurse addressed one of those areas. You just chose to be irrational and ignorant with your sky is falling stance because a team like Philly didn't have him on their draft board and it took years for you to drop it. Or did you...

O don't get me wrong Monahan was at the top of my list. I just think some posters have overhyped Nurse like they overhyped RNH and Gagner before him. If a top pairing dman is available and Nurse is the ask you make that deal immediately. We already lost out on a top 10 goalie because MacT couldn't come to grips with dealing 7th overall, Marin cin, and Roy for him

 

[Oilfan2]

Also your chart basically shows Fayne was a pretty good bottom pairing d who played a little more than average bottom pairing minutes. Harmonics stats are equal or better in most areas while playing more minutes.

You broke your own point.

Fayne played quite a bit on the top pairing with Green on a good defensive team in NJ..He was one of the top 4 x D available in free agency.

 

[Aceboogie]

I think it would be unreasonable to think his offense will automatically show up like it dude in junior. I see some possibilities in how he drives the puck wide but he needs to be able to find the trailing man which could definitely still develop.

He's really showed nothing with his wrist or slap shot yet at the big level which is a cause for concern. He's okay at getting his wrist shot through but nothing seems to ever come of it.

When you watch him play where do you think his offensive game will show up?

Thats for him to figure out, as it does in junior. In junior he had a weak slap shot, and then improved it. I agree his offense in junior came from carrying it and driving wide.

However his offense in NHL is going to come primarily from one place, assists. All he has to do is figure out how to beat forechecking coverage and break the puck out and get the puck to McDavid and co. We dont need a puck rusher, we need it on McDavids stick. Once its there he can use his speed to get in the rush and be the trailer.

But right now its pretty hard for a rookie D to figure out forechecking schemes after 50 or so pro games. Style of play and pressure is completely different. Nurse doesnt have the highest offensive hockey IQ, but he was a good first passer in junior



His WJC are a perfect highlight of what we need. Tough SOB in own end, and offensively he broke the puck out with ease. He didnt dangle anyone, just a simple breakout. Watch :40. 1:45, 2:30

Hell learn that in NHL over the next 60 games or so

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Fayne played quite a bit on the top pairing with Green on a good defensive team in NJ..He was one of the top 4 x D available in free agency.

by that chart though Fayne wasn't playing too pairing minutes. That was his last year in Jersey

 

[Raab]

Why is Pouliot being booted? Guy is producing and a relentless forechecker. Hes ideal 2LW

And once Klefbom comes back, you can bet Sekera wont be on the top pairing

Pouliot plays to light on that line. Need a better guy along the boards. Pouliot ideally is a 3rd liner on a championship calibre team which is what I thought we were going for. Obviously Sekera and Klefbom will most likely change spots at some point. But we"ll have to see how Klefbom looks after injury. He's missing a lot of time at such a young age.

 

[Aceboogie]

Also your chart basically shows Fayne was a pretty good bottom pairing d who played a little more than average bottom pairing minutes. Harmonics stats are equal or better in most areas while playing more minutes.

You broke your own point.

How so? My point was Fayne was hyped coming from East. Not as hyped as Hamonic though. But you have to seriously question D from the East

Sekera was hyped in Carolina too.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

How so? My point was Fayne was hyped coming from East. Not as hyped as Hamonic though. But you have to seriously question D from the East

Sekera was hyped in Carolina too.

And Sekera has been good here. He is a good 2nd pairing d.

 

[Aceboogie]

by that chart though Fayne wasn't playing too pairing minutes. That was his last year in Jersey

2nd in corsi rel QoC, 1st was Greene. So top pairing

 

[Oilfan2]

And Sekera has been good here. He is a good 2nd pairing d.

As is Hamonic...Nice add but isn't going to turn the fortunes of this team around so it isn't worth moving Nurse for..

 

[Raab]

How so? My point was Fayne was hyped coming from East. Not as hyped as Hamonic though. But you have to seriously question D from the East

Sekera was hyped in Carolina too.

Sekera is getting paid the same as Petry, and is as good if not better. Its not his fault he has to lead this crap defence right now. Ideally he's a second pairing guy when we're competing. He was one of the best UFA defenceman available last summer, so its not like Chia lost out on a better D or had a ton of options.

 

[Raab]

As is Hamonic...Nice add but isn't going to turn the fortunes of this team around so it isn't worth moving Nurse for..

You could add Sidney Crosby to this team and it still wouldn't compete. Theres not 1 move that will fix this team, it's going to take several. Trading for Hamonic is just the first in a long line of moves to improve the team. Have to think big picture and the fact we have Klefbom, Davidson, Reinhart all young and LHD to compensate for the loss of Nurse.

 

[Aceboogie]

And Sekera has been good here. He is a good 2nd pairing d.

Hes average second pairing, with flashes of being good. His numbers are a pretty noticeable drop from Petrys here (and Petry has looked really good in the East)

Look at Petry vs Hamonic this year:

And I dont believe it was because Petry suddenly found his game in Montreal. I think its because the East is much easier for D

Our D wasnt saved with Petry, and I dont think it would be with Hamonic

We need Hamonic along with the D we already have, and another top 4 guy

 

[Oilfan2]

You could add Sidney Crosby to this team and it still wouldn't compete. Theres not 1 move that will fix this team, it's going to take several. Trading for Hamonic is just the first in a long line of moves to improve the team. Have to think big picture and the fact we have Klefbom, Davidson, Reinhart all young and LHD to compensate for the loss of Nurse.

Sorry..disagree.

Young D but different levels/strengths.
There isn't one defenseman on this team that comes close to the 'type' of potential that Nurse has. He has that skating style/speed, stand-up' toughness, team player mentality that many teams look for but can't find. He is(or will be) a much, much better version of Gryba.

As I've said a dozen times..no issues with adding Hamonic but at the expense of either Klef or Nurse would be silly as there won't be enough of an improvement to make it worth the risk.

Trade from our abundance of forwards/picks..whatever..3-way..Don't care. I don't get paid a million bucks a year to know what the other 30 GM's in the league need/want.

 

[Digger12]

Have to think big picture and the fact we have Klefbom, Davidson, Reinhart all young and LHD to compensate for the loss of Nurse.

That's fair enough, but that supposed LHD depth goes *poof* if Klefbom continues to be a band-aid, Davidson falls back to earth a bit and settles in as a decent bottom pairing dman, and Reinhart continues to fail to seize the opportunities being given to him.

We have depth there, but IMO it could evaporate very quickly.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

Hes average second pairing, with flashes of being good. His numbers are a pretty noticeable drop from Petrys here (and Petry has looked really good in the East)

Look at Petry vs Hamonic this year:

And I dont believe it was because Petry suddenly found his game in Montreal. I think its because the East is much easier for D

Our D wasnt saved with Petry, and I dont think it would be with Hamonic

We need Hamonic along with the D we already have, and another top 4 guy

You really don't understand these charts.

That chart shows that Hamonic is the better player playing more minutes than Petry.

 

[McDeathbyCheerios*]

That's fair enough, but that supposed LHD depth goes *poof* if Klefbom continues to be a band-aid, Davidson falls back to earth a bit and settles in as a decent bottom pairing dman, and Reinhart continues to fail to seize the opportunities being given to him.

We have depth there, but IMO it could evaporate very quickly.

You could say that from anything and don't trade anyone as it could hurt us too.

Don't trade any forwards cause some forwards might suck next year.

If you think that way it just gets you to sit on your hands and hope for the best

 

[Young Lions*]

That's fair enough, but that supposed LHD depth goes *poof* if Klefbom continues to be a band-aid, Davidson falls back to earth a bit and settles in as a decent bottom pairing dman, and Reinhart continues to fail to seize the opportunities being given to him.

We have depth there, but IMO it could evaporate very quickly.

Or if Nurse never fulfills his potential and joins in the long cavalcade of NHL prospects ruined by the Edmonton Oilers.

And here's the thing: even if he fulfills his potential in two or three years, that does nothing to help us out now at a time we need to take a step forward. The reason I keep beating the Nurse for Hamonic drum is that it's a realistic option for immediately improving our D right now, unlike the many other proposed NHL16 deals involving our high priced forwards.

If we already had a half decent top four, we could talk about being patient with Nurse. I don't believe we have the luxury now no matter what his upside is.

 

[Aceboogie]

You really don't understand these charts.

That chart shows that Hamonic is the better player playing more minutes than Petry.

Petry is better is some defensive categories. Although the point wasnt to compare them directly and see whos better right now. The point you missed was that they are somewhat comparable this season (Hamonic is better overall, but not by a major gap). And yet when Petry was on this team he wasnt a world beater or a top pairing guy.

Its simply shocking how people can watch Petry go to East and do much better, or watch Fayne come to the West and suffer, or Sekera. And then continue to parade Hamonic as some top pairing D that we have to go all in for. Dude will have some serious issues in the West and wont look as good.

 

[Digger12]

You could say that from anything and don't trade anyone as it could hurt us too.

Don't trade any forwards cause some forwards might suck next year.

If you think that way it just gets you to sit on your hands and hope for the best

Not saying don't trade, just wanting to acknowledge there's risk/reward in all of this. Nothing is rock solid, even our LHD prospect depth if one or two things go differently.

For me, the risk of giving up Nurse after his rookie season outweights the reward of a good, but not great dman like Hamonic. Obviously others have a different view, and that's fine.

 

[Aceboogie]

Or if Nurse never fulfills his potential and joins in the long cavalcade of NHL prospects ruined by the Edmonton Oilers.

And here's the thing: even if he fulfills his potential in two or three years, that does nothing to help us out now at a time we need to take a step forward. The reason I keep beating the Nurse for Hamonic drum is that it's a realistic option for immediately improving our D right now, unlike the many other proposed NHL16 deals.

If we already had a half decent top four, we could talk about being patient with Nurse. I don't believe we have the luxury now no matter what his upside is.

Then build a decent top 4! Jesus guys. Its possible to build a top 4 without getting the big fish and trading the farm

This is a really weird concept for some, maybe to crazy.

Build a decent, playoff caliber D core by taking advantage of cap strapped team, or being smart in FA. And keep/develop your promising #7 overall pick with upside. Then have your core D develop into a cup contending D core in 2-3 years

You can have your ok tasting cake and eat it too