IntangiBo
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2014
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If only we could combine Hansens speed/hustle with Vrbata's mind and finish...
That's called $7.5M a year.
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If only we could combine Hansens speed/hustle with Vrbata's mind and finish...
Obviously mostly positives to take out of this game but everyone has already covered those so I'll nitpick on some small negatives:
1) Horvat needs to be given more time. He's shown nothing to suggest that he would be a liability in any situation.
2) If you're not going to put Jensen with skill players (Sedins) just send him down so he can play top minutes in the AHL. It's a complete waste of time to stick him on the 3rd and 4th line with grinders.
3) Miller hasn't been as sharp in his last two starts but I wouldn't worry just yet. His W/L stats are amazing and it's not just because of the skaters in front of him.
4) Feels like I'm gonna complain about this after every game for the rest of the year: Hamhuis and Bieksa still on the 2nd unit power-play. How bloody awful do they have to be to be taken off? It's getting ridiculous. Tanev has shown that he is a much better offensive option than either of them, it's obvious.
e: I guess it's more questionable lineup decisions than actual negatives lol.
People are saying that if Vrbata (or basically anyone but Hansen) had been on that first line we would have had more goals are choosing to ignore how much of an impact Hansen has on creating space and time for the Twins.
Watch him puck retrieve when the Sedins fudge a pass up. Watch his boardplay when the D men dump the puck in. He's amazing at generating space for them, much like Bertuzzi used to do for Naslund/Morrison.
He may be god awful at finishing, but a lot of the chances that line have been generating have been in part due to his hustle that someone like Vrbata cannot offer.
If only we could combine Hansens speed/hustle with Vrbata's mind and finish...
How Tanev continues to end up in trade proposals is baffling.
4) They are on it due to lack of options Stanton/Sbisa (when healthy) are both worst options than Hamhuis. Tanev might be an option or might not. Tanev has no shot at all and the 2nd unit seems to relay on the point shot (which Tanev can't provide). If teams start game planning for Tanev on the 2nd unit PP, you might see teams just ignore him completely and put more pressure on the other 4 players. I do agree that the 2nd PP unit needs some work and likely some personal change (i.e. not the entire 2nd line or maybe a 4 forward set).
This game shouldn't have been close. Only thing that made it that way was Anderson, the lack of finish by the Canucks and an off night for Miller.
The Good
Sedins - game illuminated how fantastic these guys are. Just flying around tonight with the puck on a string. On top of their game right now
Hansen - don't think he should be overly criticized for not doing more to read off the Sedins. Lots of their line mates have had trouble with this. Often the Sedins are not only faking out their opponents but also their own players. In this game, Hansen was again a work horse and huge on the forecheck and the backcheck. Maybe the best two player on the team right now. Don't know that he has ever skated better than he is right now.
2nd line - created ton of chances. Only criticism was they should have put away some of their chances better. Bonino continues to show a greater ability to use his line mates than Kesler. Very deft with the quick pass. Might question his defense at times but even here usually makes the smart play. Board work, especially by Higgins. was very good by this line.
Matthais - people have been talking up his potential for years. The package seems so good you wonder why he hasn't produced more. I think he vastly improved from last year and seems to have much more focus. If this team can get Kassian back and playing well they have the nucleus of a good line. This would be even truer if Horvat can step up and center this line. Be a very heavy line to play against. One thing for sure is that Matthais is playing himself into a good contract position
Tanev - while getting more apparent that Tanev doesn't have the offensive upside you'd hope, he is game in and game out out most effective d-man. His speed is ridiculous at times. Never quits working and is critical in the improved play of Edler.
Stanton - getting back to being solid. Learning to play with Bieksa (not an easy task) and showing good coverage in his own end.
The Not so Good
Miller - maybe based on comparison to earlier games but starting to let in some goals he wasn't before. Definitely second best goal tender in this game. You wonder if Miller is going to have some issues adjusting to the crazy travel schedule of the Canucks.
Jensen - to me its always been a question of whether Jensen can sustain his game for an extended period. Can see he has to work very hard to stay in the play at this level. Makes a good spurt now and then but then falls out of the play. In the AHL he seems increasingly comfortable with the speed and movement of the play but obviously not so much at this level.
Other thoughts
Vey is IMO getting better. Has the puck on his stick more and getting some separation from check. Had his head up and making plays in this game. Defense is still a struggle but breaking out of his zone better. I think you still have to know, however, that this match up was a lot easier for players like Vey than games against strong teams such as LA where he will continue to get pressured out of the play. Would say that I really doubted this player at first and thought Jensen might be better. Might be that Jensen is, in the long run, the better player but not right now.
Bieksa scored and got on the positive side of the +/- ledger in this game but I still don't think he is playing very well. I don't see him as being in the flow of the play of the team. This team is all about working things through as group. Getting the puck out of your zone, keeping in the other zone, etc... is a group process. To me Bieksa is often not on the same page and is still trying to control the game on his own. IMO, he has to move the puck quicker, give quicker support, move quicker to position himself when he doesn't have the puck (such as getting up to his blue line when the puck is moved out of his zone) and play with more focus and concentration.
I'd still say Bieksa has a better shot than Tanev, but Hamhuis is for sure not a substantially better option when it comes to power play offense, and I'd feel safer in regards to giving up short handed chances with Tanev on the blue line than either of those two.Okay, but when did Hamhuis and Bieksa develop shots? Even if I was to agree that Tanev doesn't have a shot (I disagree but this argument won't go well for me so I won't bother), it's not any worse than what Ham Juice offers. Tanev is also a better passer and much more poised than either of them, so really him not being on the PP is a true head-scratcher.
Good summary, but I still Tanev can contritubte more offensively if given a chance too. At even strength he pushes the play more than any other defender and both his passing and vision are amazing. He needs to be a staple on the powerplay.
I'd still say Bieksa has a better shot than Tanev, but Hamhuis is for sure not a substantially better option when it comes to power play offense, and I'd feel safer in regards to giving up short handed chances with Tanev on the blue line than either of those two.
I'll even go so far as to say I'd be ok with using four forwards on the second unit if Tanev was the safety net on the point. Lately though the most glaring problem for the second power play group has been even getting the puck into the offensive zone with any kind of control and until that is solved, using four forwards might be a little too sketchy.
Given the state of our second unit, I just wonder why more change hasn't happened. Kassian seems like the obvious choice once he's back, but maybe try some other guys who could be effective. It's not as if it's going to get any worse. I understand not throwing Jensen/Horvat out there since they don't seem to be in the long term plan this season.
For Tanev, I don't see why he wouldn't get a look over Hamhuis. Personally I find him to be a better passer with a similar shot. Tanev oftentimes is also forced to be more defensively-conscious given that he plays with kind of a wild card in Edler. There could be some offensive potential being stifled there, but we won't know unless he gets a shot.
Hope not, as I'll be in attendance.Good game guys, well not so much for Ottawa as we played like hot garbage, but good game for you guys. Maybe we will get you next time.
Good summary, but I still Tanev can contritubte more offensively if given a chance too. At even strength he pushes the play more than any other defender and both his passing and vision are amazing. He needs to be a staple on the powerplay.
I think Tanev at this point is still a more effective powerplay quarterback than Bieksa/Hamhuis, though.Is Tanev really not being "given the chance to" contribute more offensively though? He gets opportunities, he just consistently manages to look like a player who is out of his element at the other end of the ice. He makes very good outlet passes (probably the best on our team), one of our best defencemen at carrying the puck up and dishing it off to the forwards to move in. He makes a lot of smart plays to keep the cycle alive. But he's not a player who looks comfortable making the aggressive offensive reads that a true offensive contributor from the blueline tends to make.
It's not a slight on Tanev really...he's an oustanding defenceman and he's already blown all expectations completely out of the water. I'm just extremely skeptical of the notion that Tanev is ever going to develop into something he's not, as a real offensive dynamo. If he continues to track as a ~30pt defensive rock who contributes very nicely to the transition game, that's one heck of a player. That's our next Dan Hamhuis.
The fixation on getting Tanev on the PP is just kind of wistful to me. People want him to be good at that stuff...he's just not. It's not just that his shot is weak and makes him a complete non-threat as a PP option...it's that it takes him for ****ing ever to load his shot up, and it still just dribbles out disappointingly. And that he seems naturally inclined to back off conservatively by default on any remotely questionable play. There's zero reason to respect him as a shooting option on the point, and that makes it more difficult for everyone else on a PP with him. It's not productive.
Besides...why would you want to artificially jack up Tanev's point totals in a contract year anyway?
While i completely agree, that 2nd Unit is massively dysfunctional...i just don't think Tanev is the magic elixir to fix it. A guy like Jensen to me, is a prime candidate to play a bit part there. The PP is where he does work, that's his niche contribution...like Vey has been to the top unit this year. As you said, Kassian is another obvious candidate to man the 2nd Unit.
Tanev seems to be falling into a great role where he plays a ton of EV and PK minutes, and i can understand not wanting to push that up into the upper echelon, even with added "soft" PP minutes where he's debatable as an improvement over Bieksa for example. I'd rather shunt Tanev's minutes toward the defensive end of things, personally. If Tanev were a bonafide PP wizard, obviously i'd feel differently about things...but i haven't seen any real indication that he's particularly confident in the offensive end even 5v5.
It's a crappy situation no matter what, because we have essentially 1 reasonable PP defenceman among the lot, and a 2nd decent PP defenceman who struggles enough 5v5 that he's not a viable every day defender candidate when everyone is healthy. That's not enough to go around. Manning the 1st Unit with only 1 D-man is a start. But no matter what the case...we're short 2 good PP defencemen...one of Bieksa/Hamhuis is going to have to do. Maybe at some point Sbisa is given a look there, he's got a better shot than most on our blueline and he's shown a penchant for the aggressive pinch (50-50 pucks to the net wooooooooo ) and at times seems to roam around even when he shouldn't. Maybe even Stanton gets a look there, as he has shown a decent ability to pinch up and get pucks to the net at least. But our blueline really isn't built to staff a pair of quality powerplay units, no matter how you shuffle it. And forcing Tanev into that role probably doesn't fix much of anything, and breaks some other things like the minute balance they've got going with the blueline.
[Tanev] quite easily deserves a pp chance over Bieksa or Hamhuis. Not using him because he's in a contract year is pathetic, and is a huge blunder on Bennings part prior to the season. Much like you, they either didn't know what they had or still can't see he's Vancouver's best defencemen.
Is Tanev really not being "given the chance to" contribute more offensively though? He gets opportunities, he just consistently manages to look like a player who is out of his element at the other end of the ice. He makes very good outlet passes (probably the best on our team), one of our best defencemen at carrying the puck up and dishing it off to the forwards to move in. He makes a lot of smart plays to keep the cycle alive. But he's not a player who looks comfortable making the aggressive offensive reads that a true offensive contributor from the blueline tends to make.
It's not a slight on Tanev really...he's an oustanding defenceman and he's already blown all expectations completely out of the water. I'm just extremely skeptical of the notion that Tanev is ever going to develop into something he's not, as a real offensive dynamo. If he continues to track as a ~30pt defensive rock who contributes very nicely to the transition game, that's one heck of a player. That's our next Dan Hamhuis.
Besides...why would you want to artificially jack up Tanev's point totals in a contract year anyway?
This is way off. You'd trust Sbisa on a pp?
You're really far off on your assessment of Tanev and have undersold him for a long time. It's funny seeing people falling in love with traits like a hard shot and thinking that's what a good pp qb should have. And No he hasn't been getting offensive opportunities, he has however been creating them at 5 on 5 however. The fact that he isn't finishing them shouldnt be a slight on him, he's creating high end scoring chances by reading the play and being able to skate to areas at even strength, something sadly No one else on the defence can really do right now.
The traits that you're not seeing, that are more important than a hard shot fyi, are:
- his ability to skate. There's No one on the d core even close in this regard. His skating with the puck gets him out of the zone with ease facing multiple forecheckers, he'd be by far the best option to carry the Puck up ice on the pp. He actually keeps his head up as well.
- decision making. Rarely will you see him make a dumb pass or pinch at bad times.
- Puck handling. Again probably the best on the team. Can skate at high speed without losing it and still ends up making tape to tape passes.
- passing. He is a great passer, something that would be a lot easier at 5 on 4.
He quite easily deserves a pp chance over Bieksa or Hamhuis. Not using him because he's in a contract year is pathetic, and is a huge blunder on Bennings part prior to the season. Much like you, they either didn't know what they had or still can't see he's Vancouver's best defencemen.
The good thing about Tanev not producing a huge amount of points is his cap hit will stay low