WWE: DANIEL BRYAN RETIRES -- Thank you, Bryan

[Morozov]

Maybe it's a history thing? Dreamer gets his brain scrambled tomorrow and has to sit in a dark room for weeks at a time then it can just be a "well, look what he did to himself BEFORE he came to the WWE!". Can't do that as much with DB?

I would think that would be a large part of it.

It would seem pretty easy in the case of someone like Dreamer for WWE to put their hands up and say look at his ECW career that's what caused this you can't just blame us.

People keep pointing to other Doctors, but WWE has their own one, and if they elect to ignore what he says, then that looks pretty bad for a number of internal and external reasons. "We chose to ignore our own Doctor and go with the opinion of another" doesn't look great.

 

[Serac]

But how are they ignoring their doctor ?
That first result was ages ago, no ?

And as stated, WWE keeps getting Bryan to get test after test after test, which he Continously keeps passing with better than flying colours

 

[Kimi]

Their doctor says he is not cleared to do wrestlings.

If they then let him wrestle, they will be going against the recommendation of the doctor.




The test mean nothing until the doctor is willing to say "I give my permission for Bryan to wrestle".

And it's important to understand that when a doctor does say that, he's also saying "If Bryan gets hurt doing wrestling, then I take responsibility for it as I made a mistake when I cleared him to wrestle".


The doctor is basically insulation between the WWE and Bryan, It gives the WWE a fall guy to take all the blame when something bad happens.

If they were to let him wrestle without doctor's clearance, then the WWE would take all the heat for it in court. Doubly so when their own doctor says he can't wrestle.

 

[Morozov]

But how are they ignoring their doctor ?
That first result was ages ago, no ?

And as stated, WWE keeps getting Bryan to get test after test after test, which he Continously keeps passing with better than flying colours

They aren't ignoring their doctor now.

But if they went against what he is saying, then they would be, which doesn't look good at all for a myriad of reasons.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

They aren't ignoring their doctor now.

But if they went against what he is saying, then they would be, which doesn't look good at all for a myriad of reasons.

That is actually quite meaningless in the realm that we're talking about.

 

[Morozov]

It really isn't at all.

If their doctor says no, then they decide to go with the decision of another doctor, then **** hits the fan, the immediate question is why did you ignore what YOUR doctor said? why did you decide to go around what he said and find another opinion?

Then the spin becomes well did you go around what your doctor said to find one who would clear him, so you could have him compete for your benefit? while we have the conspiracy theorists spinning the Vince just wants to hold him back line, the logical thing for WWE is for them to want Bryan competing because he makes them money. So it's very easy to look at the idea of them finding another doctor who will clear him as the company looking to find the answer they want.

Again, that requires to subscribe to a logical line of thinking that the WWE would WANT Bryan competing and not the theory that they don't. What the reality of that situation is we don't know. If you liken it to a Football scenario where for example a doctor rules your running back out, and then you want to find another who will clear him. That doesn't look great.

There's so many complications and ways a situation like that can be spun, but many seem to just be trotting the VINCE IS HOLDING HIM BACK BECAUSE REIGNS line. A lot of people enter this discussion with that immediate bias.

Further to that, if you're on the roster and the company is deciding to go against their doctor and take the word of another, what faith does that instill in you in the guy they have?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It really isn't at all.

If their doctor says no, then they decide to go with the decision of another doctor, then **** hits the fan, the immediate question is why did you ignore what YOUR doctor said? why did you decide to go around what he said and find another opinion?

Then the spin becomes well did you go around what your doctor said to find one who would clear him, so you could have him compete for your benefit? while we have the conspiracy theorists spinning the Vince just wants to hold him back line, the logical thing for WWE is for them to want Bryan competing because he makes them money. So it's very easy to look at the idea of them finding another doctor who will clear him as the company looking to find the answer they want.

Again, that requires to subscribe to a logical line of thinking that the WWE would WANT Bryan competing and not the theory that they don't. What the reality of that situation is we don't know. If you liken it to a Football scenario where for example a doctor rules your running back out, and then you want to find another who will clear him. That doesn't look great.

There's so many complications and ways a situation like that can be spun, but many seem to just be trotting the VINCE IS HOLDING HIM BACK BECAUSE REIGNS line. A lot of people enter this discussion with that immediate bias.

Further to that, if you're on the roster and the company is deciding to go against their doctor and take the word of another, what faith does that instill in you in the guy they have?

Because their doctor is not the be-all, end-all to the legal side of these things. If two doctors clear DB independent of the company, that's going to hold more credibility than a dissenting company doctor. It is not uncommon for doctors to have differing opinions on these things.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Also from what DB is saying whatever doctor the company is using for this tiebreaking vote is getting positive results that DB is fine.

It doesn't work for WWE if an independent doctor cleared him, and then a company doctor is getting results that should clear DB, but isn't without legit reason.

Again again optically it looks really bad when you have Dreamer going through a table tonight when he has been concussed so many times he is in the "one tap to the head could be lights out" area of head injuries wrestling, yet DB is getting lots of legit positive tests back and isn't getting cleared.

 

[Morozov]

Their doctor isn't the be all and end all legal wise, that doesn't mean he isn't extremely relevant to the conversation.

Again, if their doctor doesn't clear him and they let him wrestle anyway based on the opinion of other doctors and the **** hits the fan, immediately the first question is why did you go around what YOUR doctor said. Your own doctor didn't clear him, but you didn't take that answer and went another way. Do you not trust your own doctor? did you not like the answer he gave and wanted the answer you were looking for elsewhere?

That isn't a path a company wants to go down.

I realise everyone wants to see DB wrestling, I do too. But it really isn't that hard to see reasonable arguments why they wouldn't want to let him if their own doctor isn't on board with it. They have the guy for a reason. Many would rather subscribe to the it's a Vince thing theory, maybe that's true but I'm not so close minded as to just decide that is it when really none of us know. All any of us can do is speculate, some don't seem to understand that there's very easily two sides to the argument.

Dreamer is easy, in the event he or his family ever tried to put liability on WWE for anything, you quickly trot out the endless run of ECW content and say here's your explanation. The guys nickname was "the innovator of violence", he founded a company called "House of Hardcore". He built his reputation on that sort of stuff.

 

[RockLobster]

The hypocrisy comes from the fact that they've cleared him with his concussion history, yet DB gets cleared from other doctors, even has one that says his brain is as healthy as someone who's his age who hasn't had any concussions, and they won't clear him.

I don't care about Dreamer's past, the WWE seems to be playing the "we're really concerned" card with DB, despite him passing all the tests they do, but with Dreamer they seem to not care at all about his past. It just seems bizarre, the whole situation. And like someone else has said, you'd think that there could be some sort of legal agreement signed by DB that would prevent he or his family from taking any legal action against the WWE in the event he does get injured again. The guy clearly wants to wrestle, it's his passion, if he's been cleared by more than 1 independent Doctor, and really has the positive test results to back up what he says, I am just at a loss for words as to what the issue is.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Their doctor isn't the be all and end all legal wise, that doesn't mean he isn't extremely relevant to the conversation.

Again, if their doctor doesn't clear him and they let him wrestle anyway based on the opinion of other doctors and the **** hits the fan, immediately the first question is why did you go around what YOUR doctor said. Your own doctor didn't clear him, but you didn't take that answer and went another way. Do you not trust your own doctor? did you not like the answer he gave and wanted the answer you were looking for elsewhere?

That isn't a path a company wants to go down.

I realise everyone wants to see DB wrestling, I do too. But it really isn't that hard to see reasonable arguments why they wouldn't want to let him if their own doctor isn't on board with it. They have the guy for a reason. Many would rather subscribe to the it's a Vince thing theory, maybe that's true but I'm not so close minded as to just decide that is it when really none of us know. All any of us can do is speculate, some don't seem to understand that there's very easily two sides to the argument.

Dreamer is easy, in the event he or his family ever tried to put liability on WWE for anything, you quickly trot out the endless run of ECW content and say here's your explanation. The guys nickname was "the innovator of violence".

You can say it again and again and again but you're completely missing the point. Two independent doctors that are not paid by the company clearing him is going to have more legal credibility to clear WWE from any wrongdoing than their own paid doctor. This is not some uncommon occurrence in this realm and them clearing him based on two independent opinions of doctors is not going to put them in legal hot water.

The Dreamer stuff and ECW as if that can't apply to DB when he spent ten+ years on the independent circuit? Come on, that's grasping at straws. Companies get second and third opinions on employees for things like this to give them something to point to legally.

 

[ColePens]

I would think that would be a large part of it.

It would seem pretty easy in the case of someone like Dreamer for WWE to put their hands up and say look at his ECW career that's what caused this you can't just blame us.

People keep pointing to other Doctors, but WWE has their own one, and if they elect to ignore what he says, then that looks pretty bad for a number of internal and external reasons. "We chose to ignore our own Doctor and go with the opinion of another" doesn't look great.

The major thing you keep dodging in this discussion....

A ct scan is a ct scan. If his actual exams are coming back as good as DB says they are, then the question is absolutely valid as to why the wwe doctor won't release him.

Obviously there is a huge piece missing from this discussion. I've seen concussion tests, ct, mri, and neuropsychology testing. We are in the heart of it here in Pittsburgh. DB has to be failing something that is preventing him from returning. We are missing something. Or else is an extremely weird scenario.

 

[Morozov]

The major thing you keep dodging in this discussion....

A ct scan is a ct scan. If his actual exams are coming back as good as DB says they are, then the question is absolutely valid as to why the wwe doctor won't release him.

Obviously there is a huge piece missing from this discussion. I've seen concussion tests, ct, mri, and neuropsychology testing. We are in the heart of it here in Pittsburgh. DB has to be failing something that is preventing him from returning. We are missing something. Or else is an extremely weird scenario.

I'm not dodging anything. They have their own doctor, of course they put stock in their own doctor. That's why they have that doctor there.

If you decide to overrule what your own doctor is saying, then you open yourself up to a lot of questions. That's the type of thing that people don't want to consider because they'd rather say omg it's Vince it has to be.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The major thing you keep dodging in this discussion....

A ct scan is a ct scan. If his actual exams are coming back as good as DB says they are, then the question is absolutely valid as to why the wwe doctor won't release him.

Obviously there is a huge piece missing from this discussion. I've seen concussion tests, ct, mri, and neuropsychology testing. We are in the heart of it here in Pittsburgh. DB has to be failing something that is preventing him from returning. We are missing something. Or else is an extremely weird scenario.

I mean if we believe DB he is passing all the tests the current doctor that Vince sent him to (the third doctor) and should be cleared and the only reason he isn't is unknown to us.

Either Vince is legally afraid of what happens if DB suffers another concussion despite the tests and clearance, or he doesn't want DB in the ring because he is Vince and is afraid of him ruining his plans.

 

[ColePens]

I feel this is easy....

1) Something is out there that the WWE has that would put them in a very disturbing situation to clear DB. Soooo... The wwe is doing the right thing. Whether it sucks or not.

2) DB is telling the truth and we have a very unique and strange situation. If ALL tests are coming back strong...then there is cause for concern with how this is playing out

My money is on number one. Option two just makes no sense in any way. I just don't know why DB is saying the stuff he is saying. If he's only sharing one side of the story, then that's in him. If it is option two, then wow. That's mind blowing.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I feel this is easy....

1) Something is out there that the WWE has that would put them in a very disturbing situation to clear DB. Soooo... The wwe is doing the right thing. Whether it sucks or not.

2) DB is telling the truth and we have a very unique and strange situation. If ALL tests are coming back strong...then there is cause for concern with how this is playing out

My money is on number one. Option two just makes no sense in any way. I just don't know why DB is saying the stuff he is saying. If he's only sharing one side of the story, then that's in him. If it is option two, then wow. That's mind blowing.

3) This is all a work. It is possible.

 

[ColePens]

Man that's a ballsy thing to do right now. thatd be a strange risk. What would the payoff be?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I feel this is easy....

1) Something is out there that the WWE has that would put them in a very disturbing situation to clear DB. Soooo... The wwe is doing the right thing. Whether it sucks or not.

2) DB is telling the truth and we have a very unique and strange situation. If ALL tests are coming back strong...then there is cause for concern with how this is playing out

My money is on number one. Option two just makes no sense in any way. I just don't know why DB is saying the stuff he is saying. If he's only sharing one side of the story, then that's in him. If it is option two, then wow. That's mind blowing.

Depending on how you view Punk's words on the company among other past talents, two could be a very real possibility with this company.

Personally, with DB I believe it's more of a work than anything else. I don't think he'd be talking in interviews like this w/o the company's knowing and understanding.

 

[RockLobster]

I feel this is easy....

1) Something is out there that the WWE has that would put them in a very disturbing situation to clear DB. Soooo... The wwe is doing the right thing. Whether it sucks or not.

2) DB is telling the truth and we have a very unique and strange situation. If ALL tests are coming back strong...then there is cause for concern with how this is playing out

My money is on number one. Option two just makes no sense in any way. I just don't know why DB is saying the stuff he is saying. If he's only sharing one side of the story, then that's in him. If it is option two, then wow. That's mind blowing.

#2 IS hard to believe...but it's not impossible with the WWE, at least not in my opinion. I believe what Punk said about the WWE when he left, so it leaves a crack in the door that is #2. Just look at that Vince quote about Bobby Lashley and ECW (paraphrasing: "Lashley IS ECW...") when Heyman was wanting to actually build up more talent on that brand.

 

[Morozov]

I could maybe see it as a work if it wasn't about concussions, where he eventually shows up despite the company "trying to hold him back" and not clearing him and they play on that. But with concussions as the "injury" I don't see it.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I could maybe see it as a work if it wasn't about concussions, where he eventually shows up despite the company "trying to hold him back" and not clearing him and they play on that. But with concussions as the "injury" I don't see it.

They've already used concussions as a work before. I wouldn't put it past them to use it again. Triple H used it as a work when he was working with Curtis Axel.

 

[Morozov]

I can't remember it, but was there an actual concussion involved?

With the suggestion of a work, I was considering it from the standpoint that he was actually concussed and then now he's "clear" and the holding him back is the "work". With an actual concussion involved, that would seem a little dicy to roll with.

If the notion is the entire thing is a work, right down to the concussion itself, well that would be a big ass work haha.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I can't remember it, but was there an actual concussion involved?

With the suggestion of a work, I was considering it from the standpoint that he was actually concussed and then now he's "clear" and the holding him back is the "work". With an actual concussion involved, that would seem a little dicy to roll with.

If the notion is the entire thing is a work, right down to the concussion itself, well that would be a big ass work haha.

Triple H's concussion was a complete work with Curtis Axel. Daniel Bryan really sold it over social media that he was teasing retirement when he came back last year. I don't think the original concussion DB suffered was a work but it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest for them to use it in a work as a way to bring him back. They've often embellished injury times as a way to use it for a work on a talent's return.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

His concussion was legit but he was apparently first cleared back in the summer IIRC by a third-party doctor.

 

[Deen]

Bryan is their ace in the hole. He will come back at the Rumble.