Podcast (Audio) (Dangle) The 1-2-3 C model was always the way

[Stephen]

Well, in 2017 we could've taken Thomas or Norris instead of Liljegren. Or we could just play Nylander and Kerfoot together on the third line. More of an HBK line than a Staal line, but still a matchup nightmare for others.

I guess the other play in that scenario would have been trading up from 17 to 13 to draft Nick Suzuki. But the Leafs always slide backwards to scoop up from a larger pool of similar prospects later in the draft (which has yet to prove successful).

 

[7even]

The solution to the Leafs problems is to draft a defensive center? Dangle has always been an idiot

Didnt he pee himself when they signed Tavares?
As for picking a "defensive centre", he is mistaking the draft for an ala-cart menu from Uber-eats.
Enough Dingle moments please

Dangle didn't say that, this guy said that. Dangle said, "Matthews - Tavares - Danault" would be good," and that's it. Sound off though.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

is JT supposed to be Sid or Geno ?

Is Matthews supposed to be Sid or Geno ?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Haven't heard this part of the segment but I do believe the Leafs should go for a 1-2-3 model similar to Pittsburgh, when Crosby, Malkin, and Kessel were all on separate lines. If the Leafs can hold on to Kerfoot he and Nylander I think would be the beginnings of a dangerous third line. Matthews and Tavares can anchor their own lines, Marner plays with whoever needs him most, both Matthews and Tavares have produced with non-elite linemates before.

Of course Keefe would have to learn to distribute the ice time more evenly and not run two players into the ground. And again the expansion draft complicates things.

 

[djdev]

drafting for a defensive 3rd line center is how u draft tyler biggs and goat in the 1st round, no ty.

 

[Stonehands1990]

The moment they signed Tavares and given the surrounding team (no traditional 1D) it was always obvious Dubas (given his inclination for skill over a more Western conference style build) was going to have to go with the Crosby Malkin Staal Pittsburgh model where you have a true shutdown Selke level defensive 3C.

But he didn't do that well. I thought the right move was to trade Kadri for a pick around 15 (like he did with Kapanen) and draft the best defensive center available.

At 87 minutes of Matt Smartin the new dangle podcast they talk about exactly this if anyone's interested.

If instead of signing Tavares we signed Nash, De Haan, Stralman and Maroon we could have had this roster for the 2018-2019 season
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Nylander-Kadri-Kapanen
Johnsson-Nash-Brown
Maroon-Marleau-Leivo
Extra: Moore
Reilly-De Haan
Gardiner-Stralman
Hainsey-Zaitsev
Extra: Dermott
Muzzin added at TDL*
Marleau last year on the books**
Possibly $ to pursue Pietrangelo the following season***

2 elite scoring lines
3rd line that can shutdown bang and chip in
Heavy 4th line

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

If instead of signing Tavares we signed Nash, De Haan, Stralman and Maroon we could have had this roster for the 2018-2019 season
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Nylander-Kadri-Kapanen
Johnsson-Nash-Brown
Maroon-Marleau-Leivo
Extra: Moore
Reilly-De Haan
Gardiner-Stralman
Hainsey-Zaitsev
Extra: Dermott
Muzzin added at TDL*
Marleau last year on the books**
Possibly $ to pursue Pietrangelo the following season***

2 elite scoring lines
3rd line that can shutdown bang and chip in
Heavy 4th line

... Is this supposed to be a better lineup than with Tavares? I guess you successfully argued for signing him instead of the mediocre crap you would have rather filled the roster with. Not to mention Nylander at LW, Marleau playing C... What are you smoking?

Also shaking my head at the 'we should build a third line around Nylander and Kerfoot' ... You know they mostly played as the second line and did pretty well in the playoffs, right? I mean sure it would be great if Tavares could go PPG with some league minimum scrubs on his wings but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Stonehands1990]

... Is this supposed to be a better lineup than with Tavares? I guess you successfully argued for signing him instead of the mediocre crap you would have rather filled the roster with. Not to mention Nylander at LW, Marleau playing C... What are you smoking?

Also shaking my head at the 'we should build a third line around Nylander and Kerfoot' ... You know they mostly played as the second line and did pretty well in the playoffs, right? I mean sure it would be great if Tavares could go PPG with some league minimum scrubs on his wings but I wouldn't count on it.

Nylander plays left wing periodically. Also you realize forward positions are just where the team lines up during face offs correct? Do you play hockey?

This team is deep with cap flexibility to keep the depth. Look at our 3rd and 4th lines now

Also do you realize Marleau was a C most of his career? He’s being asked to be a vet 4C on this team

judging by your response it seems like you don’t even play hockey anyhow

 

[Mickey Marner]

I guess the other play in that scenario would have been trading up from 17 to 13 to draft Nick Suzuki. But the Leafs always slide backwards to scoop up from a larger pool of similar prospects later in the draft (which has yet to prove successful).

Or, had we traded Nylander -who was holding out at the time of the Pacioretty trade- for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd instead of Montreal. That would both help us and hurt the Habs. In any case, there are always options that we never seem to take.

 

[tronoleaf]

Nylander plays left wing periodically. Also you realize forward positions are just where the team lines up during face offs correct?

False.

 

[Notsince67]

Nylander plays left wing periodically. Also you realize forward positions are just where the team lines up during face offs correct? Do you play hockey?

This team is deep with cap flexibility to keep the depth. Look at our 3rd and 4th lines now

Also do you realize Marleau was a C most of his career? He’s being asked to be a vet 4C on this team

judging by your response it seems like you don’t even play hockey anyhow

Not this kind of hockey. Please tell me more.

 

[Dough72]

Good players won't be happy with less minutes and worse linemates. There are a lot of trade demands these days.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Nylander plays left wing periodically. Also you realize forward positions are just where the team lines up during face offs correct? Do you play hockey?

lol at this do you even hockey flex right after making it very clear that you don't.

This team is deep with cap flexibility to keep the depth. Look at our 3rd and 4th lines now

With the benefit of hindsight, this defense corps is one that you'd characterize as deep and talented?

Rielly-De Haan
Gardiner-Stralman
Hainsey-Zaitsev

Yes, the Leafs should never have traded Stralman, but are you just going to ignore the fact that his play fell off a cliff in 2018, exactly the offseason when you wanted to commit over $5.5M to him for some reason?

I can understand trying to avoid using hindsight to concoct fantasy lineups for past seasons but you picked a bunch of players who have been average at best since 2018.

Also do you realize Marleau was a C most of his career? He’s being asked to be a vet 4C on this team

judging by your response it seems like you don’t even play hockey anyhow

How many seasons out of the last 9 do you think Marleau was actually playing center regularly? Or just total games?

Also, can you think of a reason why amateurs wouldn't have been playing much hockey over the last 16 months?

 

[GQS]

Dangle didn't say that, this guy said that. Dangle said, "Matthews - Tavares - Danault" would be good," and that's it. Sound off though.

Good to point this out and hope people see this before they jump down Dangle's throat. Having watched many of his videos it would definitely not be like him to say that drafting for a defensive forward would be a good idea rather than best player available.

 

[Stonehands1990]

lol at this do you even hockey flex right after making it very clear that you don't.



With the benefit of hindsight, this defense corps is one that you'd characterize as deep and talented?

Rielly-De Haan
Gardiner-Stralman
Hainsey-Zaitsev

Yes, the Leafs should never have traded Stralman, but are you just going to ignore the fact that his play fell off a cliff in 2018, exactly the offseason when you wanted to commit over $5.5M to him for some reason?

I can understand trying to avoid using hindsight to concoct fantasy lineups for past seasons but you picked a bunch of players who have been average at best since 2018.



How many seasons out of the last 9 do you think Marleau was actually playing center regularly? Or just total games?

Also, can you think of a reason why amateurs wouldn't have been playing much hockey over the last 16 months?

After the draw it’s F1, F2 and F3 buddy. First guy back on the back check assumes the role of C

it’s ok we get you don’t play hockey

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

We had a 3C, Kadri.
Now if you were unhappy with his suspensions, he could have been traded for a more defensive quality 3C.
But we also had issues on D. So he was traded for a UFA that didn’t work and Kerfoot who could possibly be exposed to expansion. So really nothing to show here.
We also had backup goalie issues with Sparks that couldn’t be addressed. Cap.

What you don’t do is spend all that money on wingers.
You had your 2 centers. Now build from the net out. Could have signed Pietrangelo and not nearly 20 on 2 wingers. Kept guys like Brown/Johnsson and a 5 mil winger.

We had backup goalie that they refused to address for 17 months, backup goalie issue they chose to create

 

[Stonehands1990]

Not this kind of hockey. Please tell me more.

After the draw it’s F1, F2 and F3. First guy on the back check assumes the role of C

Can’t believe fans don’t know this LOL

 

[Stonehands1990]

False.

True. Any time Keefe has tried 88-34-16 guess who was left wing?

also Hyman can play off wing but nylander can’t? Idiotic

 

[Notsince67]

After the draw it’s F1, F2 and F3. First guy on the back check assumes the role of C

Can’t believe fans don’t know this LOL

Rotations happen on the cycle in the ozone. It just doesnt happen in the dzone. Show me where the wingers are regularly trying to gain puck possession behind their own goalie

 

[Stonehands1990]

Rotations happen on the cycle in the ozone. It just doesnt happen in the dzone. Show me where the wingers are regularly trying to gain puck possession behind their own goalie

Notice how I said ON THE BACK CHECK

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Shouldn't all our centres be defensively responsible? You don't always get the line matchups you want.

 

[seanlinden]

Shouldn't all our centres be defensively responsible? You don't always get the line matchups you want.

This.

There were no real "problems" with the way the Leafs were built at centre in the playoffs this year. Kerfoot stepped up quite amicably in Tavares' absence. Spezza stepped up with 5 points in 7 games from a depth role.

Yes, the regular season posed some issues, as they relied heavily on JT and AM, and got basically nothing from Kerfoot or Engvall, with Spezza producing in very limited situations. Sure, it would have been better to have Kadri as the #3C than Kerfoot, but really, the problem with this team comes down to the fact that outside of the big 4, nobody was really "expected" to do anything, basically all year.

 

[Stonehands1990]

This.

There were no real "problems" with the way the Leafs were built at centre in the playoffs this year. Kerfoot stepped up quite amicably in Tavares' absence. Spezza stepped up with 5 points in 7 games from a depth role.

Yes, the regular season posed some issues, as they relied heavily on JT and AM, and got basically nothing from Kerfoot or Engvall, with Spezza producing in very limited situations. Sure, it would have been better to have Kadri as the #3C than Kerfoot, but really, the problem with this team comes down to the fact that outside of the big 4, nobody was really "expected" to do anything, basically all year.

You keep Kadri as an LW and C injury replacement

Kadri-Tavares-Marner London line

 

[seanlinden]

You keep Kadri as an LW and C injury replacement

Kadri-Tavares-Marner London line

Ultimately, Kadri had to go... too many suspensions in too many playoff series'. His absence in Colorado arguably lost them their chance his year. Kerfoot was the theoretically next best replacement (although as it turns out, Sam Bennett would have been a great pickup).

 

[Stonehands1990]

Ultimately, Kadri had to go... too many suspensions in too many playoff series'. His absence in Colorado arguably lost them their chance his year. Kerfoot was the theoretically next best replacement (although as it turns out, Sam Bennett would have been a great pickup).

Players like Kadri, Tkachuk, Marchand etc are just too damn valuable in today’s climate

The Kadri incident happened because Kadri didn’t think but also because Babcock didn’t foresee him killing Debrusk and changing the matchup and because the team had no physical pushback. Last year against Colorado he was fine, this year he’s suspended because of a matter of inches between head and shoulder contact